[eagle63]

  I have a couple of thoughts on this matter. Firstly Being in the IT industry for the past 8~ years i'm really baffled by the whole "macs last longer" idea. The company I've worked for over the past 5 years is a split environment with about 20 macs and 40 pcs. The failure rate on the macbook pros has been worse than our pcs. Most aren't lasting 2 years without some form of major repair. I've seen dead logic boards/graphics chips, quite a few kernel panics/OS instability, as well as dead hard drives. The research i've seen on warranty repair rates puts apple at fourth best (three PC vendors ahead of them in "reliability"). I'm not trying to say they are terrible but out of the 15 some odd macbooks we've got 7 have had catastrophic failures within their first two years. So there is my anecdotal evidence . That said my experience has also been that people are buying the cheapest pc laptops they can find on average (think $299 walmart specials) and then hating it because it's total crap. Then going out and blowing 1-3k on a mac and raving about how much better macs are than pcs. It's a bit silly when you think about it.

The reliability thing is tough to prove.  The company I work for is an all-mac shop (roughly 500 employees).  Our IT folks switched to macs years ago due to reliability problems and (apparently) have some metrics to prove it was the right move.  However, I think macs (particularly the laptops) used to be much better in terms of reliability- I think they've slipped in recent years.  
 
I agree on your last assessment though. It's really the reverse argument from PC fans who say, "Mac's are so overpriced, you just pay for the name.  I can get a PC laptop with the same specs for half the price."  What they forget is that their $500 PC laptop is probably a thick, heavy, plasticky piece of junk with bad battery life, a sub-par screen and a miserable trackpad.  The problem with PC laptops is the market is largely dominated by cheap junk.  Sony's Vaio line was generally very high quality, but they were also just as expensive as the macbook pro's.  

 

[ryant]

I agree that reliability is not easy to quantify. I'm definitely not intending to make a blanket statement that they aren't reliable. More so that I think they are no MORE reliable than the average pc of equivalent value. Granted the company I work for has had a terrible time with them, I did state it as purely anecdotal and a sample rate of 20 machines isn't exactly enough to get any meaningful data from. What I was referencing as more empirical were squaretrades failure rates based on manufacture. 
 
http://www.squaretrade.com/laptop-reliability-1109/
 
This was done a while ago but to my knowledge, no one else has tried to compile this info in any meaningful way. I really do find it interesting that most people tend to think macs are far and away more reliable when I don't see much to back that claim up. I could be totally wrong though, who knows!

 

[areid31891]

Hey there!
 
I would strongly recommend getting the rMBP. So much so that I created an account to post this comment. From the description you gave of what the computer will be used for, the extra computing power you will be paying for with the mac pro is not going to be worth it. If storage space is an issue just get yourself a good quality thunderbolt external drive (Lacie, G-Drive, etc). I sold computers for two years and generally found that people believed they needed a lot more power than they actually did. I had/have an old unibody macbook (2008) that I have just upgraded from. While I that laptop was great, it was getting a tad slow and needed to be replaced. I have just received my 15" rMBP in the mail in the last week and couldn't be happier with it. As a side note, if you are looking to get anything apple, I would strongly suggest going the refurbished route. You will save yourself some major cash, and the refurb products look like they are new. They come with the same warranty as their factory fresh products, but can cost up to 40% less. I think mine was marked down 28% (like $620). 
 
Just my 2 cents!

 

[depleted]

Considering the hardware, custom logic board apart, the components are the same of the other laptops/pcs, so the failure rate should be similar, and Apple always fixes bad problems even out of warranty (i.e. some Ati and nVdia GPU failures).
 
By the way the main reason a pro user likes a Mac is not because he likes to waste money or to be hipster, but because the OS X operating system and iOS integration is one of the best hassle free experiences on the market. Yearly I spend so little time in managing my apple stuff for trouble shooting that literally the couple bucks they cost me more made me earn more money working with the time gained.

 

[ryant]

Maybe i shouldn't have mentioned the reliability comment . I don't want to turn this into some big pc vs mac debate since that has nothing to do with the original topic. I was thinking out loud about the reliability factor since i've heard so many people parrot it. In hind sight i should have just kept my mouth shut. That said I still stand by what I said earlier. I would recommend the used or refurb market and save cash.
 
The way I see it you have two options for a rMBP.
A: You spend 3k+ on a new tricked out model now and hope it lasts 6 years. You will have a comparatively slow machine by at the end of that 6 years and it will likely be having battery life issues since there is no way the cells will be healthy after 6 years and you can't replace them yourself.
 
B: You spend 2k on a used/refurb rMBP now and keep it for 3-4 years. Sell it and combine the sale price with the ~1k you saved earlier and buy a used/refurb 2017 (or whatever) rMBP. So when 2020 rolls around you have a relatively new and current machine instead of something made 6 years ago that has a toasted battery etc.
 
Just my opinion obviously, you can take it or leave it . The only other thing I would caution is if you buy a used/refurb 2012 15" rMBP watch out for the LG screen models. They were plagued with ghosting issues. It's would require asking the seller if it has that problem. I do believe they got it sorted out so it's only the first gen early models. 

 

[eagle63]

@ryant No worries, I don't think we were headed for a Mac/PC holy war. I enjoy and use both and have found that all have reliability problems from time to time.  Back on topic, I also agree about the refurb option.  Unless money is no issue, I think you'll get a better value with a refurb.  I have a 2011 MBpro (year before the retinas came out)  that I got refurbed and it's great. It will be a solid machine for a few more years easily.  

 

[vlenbo]

To be honest, it doesn't matter the choice you make as long as it meets your requirements for school.
 
 
Do you have a specified major that requires a lot of horsepower? I'd go with the macpro with a 2k monitor going for $350-400.
 
If you want a laptop, you can go for it and still buy the 2k 27 inch monitor and still save money.
 
I'd say go with whatever suits you best. Do you want a portable laptop that is used for light to medium workloads? Then please, by all means, purchase the macbook pro retina display.
 
I would suggest researching the best retina macbook as the 2013 and 2014 editions are quite a gap in terms of battery life. 
 
And as a suggestion, either buy a $500 Dell monitor, or you could buy one of these.
 
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CROSSOVER-New-27QW-DP-IPS-LED-27-LG-AH-IPS-2560X1440-DVI-HDMI-DP-PC-MONITOR-/131077983187?pt=Computer_Monitors&hash=item1e84db4bd3
 
 
Though it doesn't include a warranty, you'll have a similar type of viewing angles, good contrast, and great colorspace for sRGB. I think adobe RGB isn't as good though as it only hits a 77-80 percent mark. The sRGB hits the 99 percentile.
 
Colors are accurate, and the quality is crystal clear while having great build quality. The stand is filmsy though, so I'd actually just get a dell if I were you.

 

[jeremy205100]

  That is a valid concern, about 4K. The current Macbook Pro will handle a 4K monitor at 30 Hz, but it does not have 4K on its own screen which is currently 2560x1600. Personally I'd be more concerned with the 720p FaceTime camera which I would like to be higher in resolution.

The built in screen is beautiful, and I have no issue with that. An issue I do have is that down the road, when they come way down in price, I'd like to get an external 4k monitor, and 30Hz is apparently a little laggy. I know the Mac Pro can handle 60 Hz now. I'm waiting for the next revision of either model, so hopefully the better graphics card on the next rMBP will be able to handle 4k at 60Hz. 

I definitely agree that the FaceTime camera is disappointing, but I rarely use it and that wouldn't be holding me back from the rMBP. I wouldn't be surprised if they bump it to 1080p in the next revision or two though. But I'd have no issue with a 720p webcam. 
 

  Hey there!
 
I would strongly recommend getting the rMBP. So much so that I created an account to post this comment. From the description you gave of what the computer will be used for, the extra computing power you will be paying for with the mac pro is not going to be worth it. If storage space is an issue just get yourself a good quality thunderbolt external drive (Lacie, G-Drive, etc). I sold computers for two years and generally found that people believed they needed a lot more power than they actually did. I had/have an old unibody macbook (2008) that I have just upgraded from. While I that laptop was great, it was getting a tad slow and needed to be replaced. I have just received my 15" rMBP in the mail in the last week and couldn't be happier with it. As a side note, if you are looking to get anything apple, I would strongly suggest going the refurbished route. You will save yourself some major cash, and the refurb products look like they are new. They come with the same warranty as their factory fresh products, but can cost up to 40% less. I think mine was marked down 28% (like $620). 
 
Just my 2 cents!
 

Thanks for the post! I will be getting a student discount which is more/same as the refurb route, otherwise I'd consider doing that. Your old computer was released at the same time as my current one was, do you notice any durability differences between the two?
 

  Considering the hardware, custom logic board apart, the components are the same of the other laptops/pcs, so the failure rate should be similar, and Apple always fixes bad problems even out of warranty (i.e. some Ati and nVdia GPU failures).
 
By the way the main reason a pro user likes a Mac is not because he likes to waste money or to be hipster, but because the OS X operating system and iOS integration is one of the best hassle free experiences on the market. Yearly I spend so little time in managing my apple stuff for trouble shooting that literally the couple bucks they cost me more made me earn more money working with the time gained.
 

Agreed on the iOS and Mac OS integration. I think the failure rate would be similar components wise, but a PC would likely have more software issues, be it from viruses or just bugs. Mac OS is way more optimized for the hardware in my opinion. 
 

  Maybe i shouldn't have mentioned the reliability comment . I don't want to turn this into some big pc vs mac debate since that has nothing to do with the original topic. I was thinking out loud about the reliability factor since i've heard so many people parrot it. In hind sight i should have just kept my mouth shut. That said I still stand by what I said earlier. I would recommend the used or refurb market and save cash.
 
The way I see it you have two options for a rMBP.
A: You spend 3k+ on a new tricked out model now and hope it lasts 6 years. You will have a comparatively slow machine by at the end of that 6 years and it will likely be having battery life issues since there is no way the cells will be healthy after 6 years and you can't replace them yourself.
 
B: You spend 2k on a used/refurb rMBP now and keep it for 3-4 years. Sell it and combine the sale price with the ~1k you saved earlier and buy a used/refurb 2017 (or whatever) rMBP. So when 2020 rolls around you have a relatively new and current machine instead of something made 6 years ago that has a toasted battery etc.
 
Just my opinion obviously, you can take it or leave it . The only other thing I would caution is if you buy a used/refurb 2012 15" rMBP watch out for the LG screen models. They were plagued with ghosting issues. It's would require asking the seller if it has that problem. I do believe they got it sorted out so it's only the first gen early models. 
 

Since you're in an IT environment, I'd be very curious to hear your thoughts about the base model Mac Pro. Also, I regularly use PCs. It's not that a PC is difficult to use, I just like using a Mac for my personal computing. I also find that iTunes behaves better on Macs, and the integration with iOS is hugely important to me. The aesthetics also play a minor role. 
 
Just to update everyone (thanks for all the feedback!): I'm going to use this laptop for my first semester or until whenever Apple decides to update the rMBP and Mac Pro again. If I find I don't really need a laptop except for doing word and stuff in the library, I will likely get the Mac Pro and keep it for 6-7 years and then get a $229 chromebook to bring to class or the library. This will be lighter than the rMBP, have longer battery life, and boot up faster. Then for my more intensive computing needs like photoshop and the like I can use the Mac Pro in my room. 
 
If I find that I need a laptop around me more regularly, I will get the rMBP. Hopefully they will improve the 4k support, but even if they don't if I need a laptop I won't have much of a choice. I'm not really sure carrying a 15.4" laptop (necessary for extended computing sessions) around all day is the most convenient option, which is why the desktop and chromebook idea might work better. 
 
But I know that the best option is to use this for the first semester or so to see what my computing needs will be, then spring for one of the paths above. 

 

[jeremy205100]

  To be honest, it doesn't matter the choice you make as long as it meets your requirements for school.
 
 
Do you have a specified major that requires a lot of horsepower? I'd go with the macpro with a 2k monitor going for $350-400.
 
If you want a laptop, you can go for it and still buy the 2k 27 inch monitor and still save money.
 
I'd say go with whatever suits you best. Do you want a portable laptop that is used for light to medium workloads? Then please, by all means, purchase the macbook pro retina display.
 
I would suggest researching the best retina macbook as the 2013 and 2014 editions are quite a gap in terms of battery life. 
 
And as a suggestion, either buy a $500 Dell monitor, or you could buy one of these.
 
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CROSSOVER-New-27QW-DP-IPS-LED-27-LG-AH-IPS-2560X1440-DVI-HDMI-DP-PC-MONITOR-/131077983187?pt=Computer_Monitors&hash=item1e84db4bd3
 
 
Though it doesn't include a warranty, you'll have a similar type of viewing angles, good contrast, and great colorspace for sRGB. I think adobe RGB isn't as good though as it only hits a 77-80 percent mark. The sRGB hits the 99 percentile.
 
Colors are accurate, and the quality is crystal clear while having great build quality. The stand is filmsy though, so I'd actually just get a dell if I were you.

My major definitely would be more than satisfied with either option. The sad thing is that my current Core 2 Duo laptop exceeds (not just matches) my school's computing requirements. It's going to be time for an upgrade soon though, since it's been six years, and the battery life on this laptop will likely be an issue unless I want to be tethered to a wall. 
 
I currently have an Acer LCD 23" display with just ok colors that I'm going to be bringing with my Xbox 360 and using with my laptop in cases where I need the extra real estate. I also have a ViewSonic 23" LED IPS display hooked up to my Xbox One here that is beautiful. If I got a desktop I'd likely switch that out with the Acer. I also have a really nice Logitech Darkfield mouse and a capable wireless keyboard, so my extra expenses would be minimal if I went the desktop route. 
 
Right now the Chromebook for library work and notes (10 hours of battery life sounds amazing, and that'd be a huge concern for the portable) seems tempting, and that way I could spend my money on the Mac Pro to enjoy. But I need to make sure I don't need a more capable laptop first, which I don't think I will, but better to be safe than sorry.

 

[depleted]

Actually I'd hate having to sync documents and files with more than one computer, or even worse between different computers with different operating systems. I think I'd just get a cheap 13" rMBP and always hook it to an external display whenever I can. Cheap, practical, and even the slowest laptop nowadays is more than enough powerful for everything (except 4k video editing)

 

[ryant]

   
Since you're in an IT environment, I'd be very curious to hear your thoughts about the base model Mac Pro. Also, I regularly use PCs. It's not that a PC is difficult to use, I just like using a Mac for my personal computing. I also find that iTunes behaves better on Macs, and the integration with iOS is hugely important to me. The aesthetics also play a minor role. 
 

 I can certainly appreciate the aesthetics and the like . As to the mac pros, while we do have 8 pros in our environment (most for the video editors and one for a graphics designer) none are the newest model. We do have two of the last gen tower pros (2x6core machines). I haven't used the newest pro yet though I can say my impressions of the price point and feature set is that I feel it's a bit of a confused product and priced/built for the wrong market on both sides (consumer and pro). I will explain why.
 
It's touted as a pro level machine and I would think that this would typically be used in a creative professional environment. That said most the people we have that cut video and do graphics design really like being able to upgrade components and need a lot of flexible storage.
 
We have replaced quite a few video cards over the years to speed up premiere/final cut. We have also added tons of storage to the mac pros. One in particular has ~10tb on board of spindle disks plus PCIexpress SSD boot drive. I can appreciate how fast the new pros are but when it comes to non-replaceable things like video cards I feel like it's not the greatest fit for most pro environments. Not to mention the AMD/ATI cards are soldered in so no upgrading. It doesn't seem to jive well with since adobe tends to favor CUDA cores from nvidia cards.. maybe they will release and update to speed the render times of AMD/ATI cards?? I know some people argue that you don't need anything internal cause you have 6 thunderbolt ports. While that is true, you can do external storage, external PCIexpress chassis, and the like, all of those things are VERY expensive compared to just throwing them onboard in the old mac pros. So you end up spending a lot of cash for a machine that will get outdated and if you want to update it you have the cost of components plus the chassis to connect them. Another issue is that the speed of external PCIexpress chassis for video cards that i've seen are no where near the onboard speed (i'm sure this will be fixed with the advent of faster thunderbolt revisions if it's not already). So when all is said and done and you factor in how much the new mac pros cost plus what we'd have to spend in external thunderbolt expansions the price goes through the roof. I know in our company we aren't in any hurry to upgrade to the new style pros due to the high costs for the same capability we have no but with faster render times. In fact the media director is likely to buy iMacs when these need replacing but I'll get to that in a moment. 
 
So all that said, you have what is priced at the level of a professional workstation but not really jiving with what i've personally seen is desired in a professional environment. If they would have put the power of the new pro into the old chassis I think the thing would rock. As it stands i just don't see it being a great product. You do get a really beautiful and powerful machine in an incredibly small package but I don't see where the market is needing that. So what about the iMac? Well when you start comparing the iMac to the new pro i think the new style pro makes even less sense in prosumer world. The iMac will have more than enough power for just about any prosumer. It will also come with a great display and a cheaper price point. It has 2 thunderbolt ports so if you need more GPU power or storage you loose nothing over the mac pro who would require expansion chassis and enclosures as well. 
 
So at the end of the day i'm sure they will sell, I just don't feel like it fits well into the pro market or consumer markets. If money is no object in either of those scenarios then it's fine but i typically don't see situations where people don't care how much it costs.
 
 
TL;DR Buy an iMac 

 

[jeremy205100]

I have a few issues with the iMac, otherwise I'd consider it. In order of importance:
1) No retina/4k screen. Since the screen is built in, I don't even have the option of upgrading down the road like I do with the Mac Pro, or at least have a good one from the start, like the rMBP.
2) Too big, since I'd have to get the 27" model due to performance and upgradeability. 
3) No 4k support even on an external screen.
 
The Mac Pro is the best desktop for me if I went that route because I only need 4 cores, and at 3.7GHz it'd be excessive as it is. The 12GB of standard RAM can be upgraded, and it's much higher quality than an iMac or rMBP. The graphics cards I wouldn't be interested in upgrading, which is good because they can't be. The storage I could also upgrade, although I'd probably just get 512GB to start with and use external for anything large. It's appealing to me because it's expandable, relatively future proof, and pretty compact for what it is. I never would've considered the old Mac Pro due to the size.
 
Since it's so overkill, it'd also last a very long time.

 

[ryant]

As far as I understand it the iMac does support 4k external displays via thunderbolt (sadly still limited to 30Hz). As I understand it the iMac and Mac Pro have the same capabilities via thunderbolt (I could be mistaken though). The nice thing with the iMac aside from the price is that you could do dual displays and use the iMac as a secondary display and a nice 4k monitor as your main if you wanted. As to portability, if you had no external accessories or drives then the Mac Pro would technically be more portable but I can't imagine buying any desktop with the intent of moving it that often. There is a company that makes carry bags for iMacs. We looked at them because we travel to events and usually ship or carry several mac pros and we have a few 27" iMacs as well though they don't tend to leave the office . If you're really set on the Mac Pro go for it. At the end of the day you should get what you want. I typically tell people to start making a good ol fashioned pros cons list and try to consider all the variables. Sometimes if can be hard to account for all scenarios but sometimes it helps to have it on paper. You could consider this too, you could likely get a decked out 27" iMac and a 13" macbook air for the same cost as a mac pro and monitor.

 

[jfaaz]

a mac mini i7 2.3ghz with a Viewsonic 27" monitor is what I use.  I use a 3tb external drive for my music library that is backed up to another 3tb external drive via timemachine.  Great setup for my purposes!

 

[PaperMacWriter]

I have the current high-end rMBP, and a friend of mine has the Mac Pro. Given your budget and uses, I absolutely think that the next generation (Broadwell) rMBP is the choice for you. The Mac Pro offers many incredible features and greater reliability with things like ECC RAM, but unless your courses involve large amounts of video editing in Final Cut Pro X you won't even begin to utilize the dual GPUs in the Mac Pro. Photoshop on the current rMBP just flies, has a great screen, incredible battery life, and, most importantly, the high end is within your budget. If you're buying a Mac Pro that you want to last for a long time, you would't but an entry level machine. Without any accessories, the cheapest Mac Pro I would recommend to someone is almost $7,000. For the rMBP, buy it with the maximum amount of RAM and SSD space you can get, since you can't change that later. CPU speed isn't worth fussing over too much. One warning I give is about the discrete GPU: it's fast, and I love it when I'm doing video editing, but it gets activated by a lot of things, and it will kill your battery life. If you don't need the discrete GPU, you might be better without it. Also, next rMBP may have increased support for 4k monitors, so that's a draw. The Broadwell chips are fairly delayed, so you might be waiting until around February for you new machine, but it's worth it. Broadwell will be much more power efficient, and that will mean a good bump in battery life/power. If you have any specific questions, feel free to ask or shoot me a PM. Sorry for the disorganized nature of this post, hope it helps.
 
EDIT: read more of what others posted about iMacs. I lean heavily toward getting a laptop, as managing two computers is a total nightmare and you'll need your computer more out of your room than in it. Once I'm out of school, my ideal setup would be to have a Mac Pro and a MacBook Air to have the most powerful computer at my desk (I do work that can actually justify the Mac Pro) and the most portability on the go. But as a student, buy a laptop.