[aminus]

I think that’s fair; I really, really want to hear the IER-Z1R because I’ve heard so many good things about it and I’d take the EX1000 over the limited >$1000 IEMs I’ve heard. But as far as over ear headphones go, it’s so disappointing to hear systems cost more than a new car still sound so awful to me. I’ve turned to speakers because the annoyances are less obvious and I’m lucky enough to be able to use them and I’m exponentially happier with my incredibly average sounding speakers than my old multi-thousand dollar SR-007 system.

The Z1R is much bassier than the EX1000, but I do like it a lot, enough that it’s shaped my preferences towards something that apparently doesn’t exist in headphones. It’s “V-shaped” in a way that recesses lower mids so that the bass and upper mids are a bit more apparent, but the bass on it is absolutely addicting in how subbassy it is and how it slams, and the way the upper mids is tuned lends it an incredibly amount of technicality. And the treble has this subtle mid treble recession so that the lower treble and upper treble stick out slightly more, which gives it this really nice stick impact and decay with cymbals. Definitely worth trying if you’re looking for a TOTL IEM, though I know Sony can be a real pain to demo outside of Asia.

I would consider speakers if it wasn’t for the fact that my audio room is messy enough as-is and that I’m going to college next year. Speakers would obviously give me a way better experience than headphones but the headphone market does exist for a reason I suppose.

Curious you mentioned the 007, since for a time it was something that I liked enough to almost buy. However something about a headphone requiring an amp that costs between 2-3x of its price to have any sort of optimal performance seems a bit rough. And of course now my preferences have drifted too far away from that.

 

[slooploop]

The Z1R is much bassier than the EX1000, but I do like it a lot, enough that it’s shaped my preferences towards something that apparently doesn’t exist in headphones. It’s “V-shaped” in a way that recesses lower mids so that the bass and upper mids are a bit more apparent, but the bass on it is absolutely addicting in how subbassy it is and how it slams, and the way the upper mids is tuned lends it an incredibly amount of technicality. And the treble has this subtle mid treble recession so that the lower treble and upper treble stick out slightly more, which gives it this really nice stick impact and decay with cymbals. Definitely worth trying if you’re looking for a TOTL IEM, though I know Sony can be a real pain to demo outside of Asia.

I would consider speakers if it wasn’t for the fact that my audio room is messy enough as-is and that I’m going to college next year. Speakers would obviously give me a way better experience than headphones but the headphone market does exist for a reason I suppose.

Curious you mentioned the 007, since for a time it was something that I liked enough to almost buy. However something about a headphone requiring an amp that costs between 2-3x of its price to have any sort of optimal performance seems a bit rough. And of course now my preferences have drifted too far away from that.

I was considering a T8ie because I wanted subbass, but the way you describe the Z1R is basically my ideal sound signature for an IEM. Maybe I should just bite the bullet on a used one if my listening uses change. I actually bought a UERM earlier this month and when I was cleaning, I realized I used it maybe once. With a sound like that I might actually be more motivated to use IEMs.

My 007 was a port modded MK2. I loved the midrange but the weightless presentation got to me after a while. I wanted something visceral like the HE6 but less harsh with a midrange tonality closer to the 007, which as far as I know doesn’t really exist, which really is a shame.

 

[Ableza]

Has anyone compared the Raal SR1a system to the sets being discussed here? Also I notice that no actual e-stats are being suggested. Were they excluded from the OP's question?

 

[aminus]

I was considering a T8ie because I wanted subbass, but the way you describe the Z1R is basically my ideal sound signature for an IEM. Maybe I should just bite the bullet on a used one if my listening uses change. I actually bought a UERM earlier this month and when I was cleaning, I realized I used it maybe once. With a sound like that I might actually be more motivated to use IEMs.

My 007 was a port modded MK2. I loved the midrange but the weightless presentation got to me after a while. I wanted something visceral like the HE6 but less harsh with a midrange tonality closer to the 007, which as far as I know doesn’t really exist, which really is a shame.

The T8iE I feel is lacking in general treble. The Xelento has more and is one that I do like, but it’s a single DD IEM and expectedly has limitations in resolution and technicalities as does every single DD save the EX1K. I don’t know if I can recommend blind buying the Z1R in good faith, primarily because I don’t like blind buying period and the Z1R especially is heavily fit dependent for both comfort and the ideal treble response. I suppose a used one couldn’t hurt if you got a good deal on it though.

The 007’s tuning is really nice, but I have the same gripes as yours: a lack of tactility. That and the amplification requirements being pretty high make it difficult to justify as a whole in my eyes.

Has anyone compared the Raal SR1a system to the sets being discussed here? Also I notice that no actual e-stats are being suggested. Were they excluded from the OP's question?

I’ve heard the SR1A at Canjam and the lack of subbass extension as well as generally bright and upper midrange focused tuning is too much for me. Combine that with the recent impressions from a friend who bought one to try and see how far he could take it with EQ and ended up returning it and it’s a recipe for something that’s just not up my alley.

As for estats, well, they’d be in consideration if there was an estat capable of giving me the low end slam I want. Not aware of any, and I’ve heard many, many estats, including a few rare gems.

 

[Ableza]

I’ve heard the SR1A at Canjam and the lack of subbass extension as well as generally bright and upper midrange focused tuning is too much for me. Combine that with the recent impressions from a friend who bought one to try and see how far he could take it with EQ and ended up returning it and it’s a recipe for something that’s just not up my alley.

As for estats, well, they’d be in consideration if there was an estat capable of giving me the low end slam I want. Not aware of any, and I’ve heard many, many estats, including a few rare gems.

Thank you for the reply. I have not yet heard the Raal but I have heard many good things about them. Yours is perhaps the first negative comment I've read. I have the MrSpeakers Voce, and while not full of "slam" they do have excellent low bass output for an e-stat.

 

[slooploop]

The T8iE I feel is lacking in general treble. The Xelento has more and is one that I do like, but it’s a single DD IEM and expectedly has limitations in resolution and technicalities as does every single DD save the EX1K. I don’t know if I can recommend blind buying the Z1R in good faith, primarily because I don’t like blind buying period and the Z1R especially is heavily fit dependent for both comfort and the ideal treble response. I suppose a used one couldn’t hurt if you got a good deal on it though.

The 007’s tuning is really nice, but I have the same gripes as yours: a lack of tactility. That and the amplification requirements being pretty high make it difficult to justify as a whole in my eyes.

I’ve heard the SR1A at Canjam and the lack of subbass extension as well as generally bright and upper midrange focused tuning is too much for me. Combine that with the recent impressions from a friend who bought one to try and see how far he could take it with EQ and ended up returning it and it’s a recipe for something that’s just not up my alley.

As for estats, well, they’d be in consideration if there was an estat capable of giving me the low end slam I want. Not aware of any, and I’ve heard many, many estats, including a few rare gems.

Yeah, I’ve been waiting to see them drop below $1k. I don’t have many opportunities to try things so my only option has been to wait to buy things for cheap used and sell for around the same price when I realize I hate it, haha.

The 007 really was an interesting headphone. I think I tried to like it so badly because when I started out it was what I considered my grail but it really fell flat for any sort of realistic presentation. I did only use an SRM-717 so I’m sure I didn’t drive them as well as I could have been, but the delta between loving it and selling it was too wide.

 

[aminus]

Thank you for the reply. I have not yet heard the Raal but I have heard many good things about them. Yours is perhaps the first negative comment I've read. I have the MrSpeakers Voce, and while not full of "slam" they do have excellent low bass output for an e-stat.

The Raal is certainly not a bad headphone, and I do appreciate how novel it is. I just think that the tuning, even ignoring the unavoidable bass rolloff, is highly fatiguing. The distortion metrics as well on it are also somewhat concerning and correlate closely to areas in which my friend described as a lack of detail and technical ability. Overall, I get why it appeals to people, but I don’t appreciate it.

As for the Voce, I... don’t really have a good impression of its general technical ability. Definitely not the benchmark of estats IMO.

Yeah, I’ve been waiting to see them drop below $1k. I don’t have many opportunities to try things so my only option has been to wait to buy things for cheap used and sell for around the same price when I realize I hate it, haha.

The 007 really was an interesting headphone. I think I tried to like it so badly because when I started out it was what I considered my grail but it really fell flat for any sort of realistic presentation. I did only use an SRM-717 so I’m sure I didn’t drive them as well as I could have been, but the delta between loving it and selling it was too wide.

I feel like a lot of the reason people like the 007 is because of exactly what holds it back from being a visceral realistic experience: the ethereal estat lack of slam. There are definitely people into that, though for me it’s simply not satisfying. The tuning is also not particularly neutral or hifi-esque or any other name you have for it, it’s its own thing that is pretty unique and colored, though I would still say in a way that manages to be appealing. I have heard that the KG amplifiers do somewhat help this, but I’m not sure if I’m willing to go that far myself.

 

[Ableza]

Interesting. Different strokes, I suppose. I chose the Voce over the Stax 009 because I thought it sounded better overall (driven by my AudioValve Solaris amp.) To each his own!

 

[HBen]

@aminus: After reading through your initial post and reading through your responses it seems to me that your expectations of a (perfect) headphone are pretty unrealistic. Kind of like a guy who nags that there is no lamborghini which goes from 0-100 in 2seconds, which is also totally quiet, weights less than 800 kg, has a reach of over 2000km and costs not more than a toyota corolla.

The way you decry some of the best headphones in existence is pretty bold it seems to me. No headphone is great at everything but many have their virtues. The way to go is to diversify. Or maybe full size headphones are just not for you and you better just stick with iems ...

 

[aminus]

@AniMuS: After reading through your initial post and reading through your responses it seems to me that your expectations of a (perfect) headphone are pretty unrealistic. Kind of like a guy who nags that there is no lamborghini which goes from 0-100 in 2seconds, which is also totally quiet, weights less than 800 kg, has a reach of over 2000km and costs not more than a toyota corolla.

The way you decry some of the best headphones in existence is pretty bold it seems to me. No headphone is great at everything. The way to go is to diversify. Or maybe full size headphones are just not for you and you better just stick with iems ...

It’s almost like I’ve stated multiple times that I’m well aware that I’m asking for an incredible lot, and would not even be asking in the first place were I myself able to answer my own question. Did you bother to read my actual notes in the thread or did you skip to the bits where I say something slightly negative about your favorite headphone?

And what do you mean by “decry some of the best headphones in existence”? I didn’t know that I was supposed to like everything that’s even slightly lauded by a semi-large group of people. God forbid I have opinions, am I right?

Nah, I should stick to praising everything with inarticulate and repetitive vocabulary. Everything is great, everything is fine. Criticism and personal preference need not apply, all headphones are good and I should buy all of them. Who ever cared about standards anyways? While I’m at it too since everything is good I should settle for a HD600 and an O2. Scratch that, a Porta Pro out of a mobo should be just fine. Screw having taste, amirite?

Oh yeah, by the way, might wanna apologize to the guy you pinged. Don’t know who that is.

 

[Ableza]

Like I said, different strokes and to each his own.

 

[aminus]

Like I said, different strokes and to each his own.

Different strokes is fine and dandy and all, but shooting me down for saying I don’t like certain popular headphones... that’s a whole other ballgame, and not one I’m willing to tolerate.

 

[HBen]

It’s almost like I’ve stated multiple times that I’m well aware that I’m asking for an incredible lot, and would not even be asking in the first place were I myself able to answer my own question. Did you bother to read my actual notes in the thread or did you skip to the bits where I say something slightly negative about your favorite headphone?

And what do you mean by “decry some of the best headphones in existence”? I didn’t know that I was supposed to like everything that’s even slightly lauded by a semi-large group of people. God forbid I have opinions, am I right?

Nah, I should stick to praising everything with inarticulate and repetitive vocabulary. Everything is great, everything is fine. Criticism and personal preference need not apply, all headphones are good and I should buy all of them. Who ever cared about standards anyways? While I’m at it too since everything is good I should settle for a HD600 and an O2. Scratch that, a Porta Pro out of a mobo should be just fine. Screw having taste, amirite?

Oh yeah, by the way, might wanna apologize to the guy you pinged. Don’t know who that is.

Seems like I hurt your feelings there. If that was the case I apologize.

Well to answer your questions:

- Yes I actually did bother to read your actual notes in the thread - which actually led me to post here ... and
- No, I didn't "skip to the bits where you say something slightly negative about my favorite headphone", because I have no favorite headphone and that was actually kind of my point. Each headphone has its strenghs (and weaknesses) and I use them for different music styles etc... Diversifying is king and having headphones with different strenghs lets me enjoy my music more than I ever imagined.

Pleae do not interpret my post in a way so you can just bash back if you don't like what I'm saying. I never said you should praise everything, I never said "all is great" or whatever rethoric that is supposed to be. I also never said you should buy everything, that you should'nt have any taste and all that. No idea where you got that all from.

It's basically just that we all enjoy this hobby here and you just talked down on a big part of the best headphones there is and claimed that you would never buy a bunch of others which leaves us basically no options to suggest because you already ruled them all out. The guys all tried to help you suggesting headphones you might like ... and you hardly left a good hair on any of them.

We're all here to help each other, enjoy our time and have fun with our headphones and our great hobby - if you think all headphones which the community thinks are great are that bad that's cool and you are of course entitled to your own opition, It's just not necessary to rub it into everyone's face.

I am not ruling out that I might misinterpret your intention here, I'm just saying the way your posts are received on my (maybe our) end don't really sound that much like you're actually looking for genuine advice and more like you enjoy to post all the negative points of highend headphones. Maybe I'm wrong - but that is just the way I perceive it.

Cheers and have fun with your music

 

[Ableza]

Different strokes is fine and dandy and all, but shooting me down for saying I don’t like certain popular headphones... that’s a whole other ballgame, and not one I’m willing to tolerate.

Welcome to Head Fi. Don't take things personally and you will be much happier.

 

[aminus]

Seems like I hurt your feelings there. If that was the case I apologize.

Well to answer your questions:

- Yes I actually did bother to read your actual notes in the thread - which actually led me to post here ... and
- No, I didn't "skip to the bits where you say something slightly negative about my favorite headphone", because I have no favorite headphone and that was actually kind of my point. Each headphone has its strenghs (and weaknesses) and I use them for different music styles etc... Diversifying is king and having headphones with different strenghs lets me enjoy my music more than I ever imagined.

Pleae do not interpret my post in a way so you can just bash back if you don't like what I'm saying. I never said you should praise everything, I never said "all is great" or whatever rethoric that is supposed to be. I also never said you should buy everything, that you should'nt have any taste and all that. No idea where you got that all from.

It's basically just that we all enjoy this hobby here and you just talked down on a big part of the best headphones there is and claimed that you would never buy a bunch of others which leaves us basically no options to suggest because you already ruled them all out. The guys all tried to help you suggesting headphones you might like ... and you hardly left a good hair on any of them.

We're all here to help each other, enjoy our time and have fun with our headphones and our great hobby - if you think all headphones which the community thinks are great are that bad that's cool and you are of course entitled to your own opition, It's just not necessary to rub it into everyone's face.

I am not ruling out that I might misinterpret your intention here, I'm just saying the way your posts are received on my (maybe our) end don't really sound that much like you're actually looking for genuine advice and more like you enjoy to post all the negative points of highend headphones. Maybe I'm wrong - but that is just the way I perceive it.

Cheers and have fun with your music

Hurt my feelings? You’re lending yourself a bit too much credit. Some mild passive aggressiveness isn’t going to offend a hair on me.

Maybe you didn’t realize but this isn’t some sort of review thread or even an impressions thread. This is an recommendations thread, and if people recommend something I know I don’t like I’m going to say I don’t like it and exactly why I don’t like it so I can get something I like recommended faster. I’m not here to validate your purchases. There are other threads on this website for that. If your self-esteem and confidence in what you own is so easily rustled by some random’s opinions on what he does and doesn’t like, maybe you should be questioning not my taste but your own spending habits. That’s all I can say to help you because clearly you either have no idea what this thread is for or stumbled onto the wrong subforum of this website. Godspeed.