[Agarvaen]

I am looking for amp/dac recommendations for HD800 or  Hd 650 in the future. I will be using foobar and flac files from PC. I want to avoid Chinese brands and DIY products. I am not going to upgrade for at least a year. 
Unfortunately these 2 headphones have different character so choosing a budget combination that would serve both is difficult if not impossible. The more research I do the more confused I am.

Since my budget is around 1k Euro for amp+dac

1 Musical fidelity M1 HPA with usb input
2 Burson HA 160DS
3 Odac+Vioelectric v200 (or wait for money for v800 dac)
 
Perhaps I should jut go with Icon HD or M1HPA paired with HD650 and forget about HD800 till I can get a decent setup to go with it. In which case would M1HPA be a substantial improvement over Icon HD?
Looking forward to Your opinions.

 

[olander08]

If you're going to get the HD800 in the future and don't need one asap, I would definitely wait until the Sennheiser HDVD800 amplifier is released (even though the price should be around €1500 iirc).
 

 

[PurpleAngel]

Quote:

I am looking for amp/dac recommendations for HD650 with possible upgrade to Hd 800 in the future. I will be using foobar and flac files from PC. I want to avoid Chinese brands and DIY products. I am not going to upgrade for at least a year. 
Unfortunately these 2 headphones have different character so choosing a budget combination that would serve both is difficult if not impossible. The more research I do the more confused I am.

Since my budget is around 1k Euro I was looking at following combinations

1 Nuforce Icon HD (and stay at that as I won't be able to get expensive amp and DAC at the same time) and get HD800 with it
2 Schiit bifrost + lyr
3 Musical fidelity M1 HPA with usb input
4 Burson HA 160DS
5 Nuforce udac2+Vioelectric v200 (or usb input built in as v800 dac would almost double my budget)

Perhaps I should jut go with Icon HD or M1HPA paired with HD650 and forget about HD800 till I can get a decent setup to go with it. In which case would M1HPA be a substantial improvement over Icon HD?
Looking forward to Your opinions.

How about getting the Asus Xonar Essence STX sound card with LME49990 op-amp upgrade ($60) for use with the Senn HD650.
It's something you can use while keeping an eye out for good deals (low prices) on an external DAC and amplifier.
The Essence STX comes with a S/PDIF coaxial digital output, for connecting to an external DAC.
Schiit recommends Coaxial>Optical>USB (heard second hand).

 

[Agarvaen]

Thanks for advice PurpleAngel, however STX (180 euro) with opamp upgrade (not sure about price in Europe) would be very close to Nuforce Icon HD in price (310) - that is why maybe I should just get it along with HD650 and wait a year till I can get HD800 with proper setup and not go for middle ground solutions.
It will be my first hifi setup so I'd like to get it right from the start one way or the other.

 

[ValentinHogea]

I wouldn't recommend the HA-160DS...
 
I have a HA-160D and a La Figaro 339 (w/ HRT Music Streamer II+)
 
Considering that the first one retails for 1250 USD
And the second rig 550 USD (+ aprox 100 USD shipping) + 350 USD
 
La Figaro 339 makes the HD650 SING. I got some inside-info, Headfonia will post a review soon praising it as the best amp for HD650 (and REALLY good for HD800).
Forget the Burson, it's not that good for the money. HRT MSII+ is a much better DAC for starter. Wider soundstage. Thicker sound. Overall better. I've A'n'B a lot. I was expecting much more from both the DAC and amp of the Burson.
 
Secondly the amp part of HA-160D is not that impressive either. Quite "flat" I would say. In my opinion Schiit Lyr and HA-160(D)(S) are heavily over-hyped.
 
Thus, I'll be selling the Burson after just 2 days in my ownership. Tube amp is the way to go with Senn's. In my opinion.
 
Best wishes,

 

[ValentinHogea]

Ahh... I forgot. From what I've hear the V200 doesn't pair up too good with Senns. With LCD-2/-3... Whole other picture.

 

[xzobinx]

To my ears the V200 paired very good with senns. But compared to the woo and schiit line I clearly prefer the V200. 
 
Quote:

Ahh... I forgot. From what I've hear the V200 doesn't pair up too good with Senns. With LCD-2/-3... Whole other picture.

 

[Agarvaen]

After reading both hd800 and v200 threads I was under the impression they pair very well as this is tube sounding amp even if it is solid state. Also built in usb dac for v200 should be as good as cheap dacs or better so I'm leaning towards v200 with integrated usb input instead of separate cheap dac. Still I suppose I should wait till September for HDVD800 Sennheiser amp impressions.

 

[ValentinHogea]

Quote:

After reading both hd800 and v200 threads I was under the impression they pair very well as this is tube sounding amp even if it is solid state. Also built in usb dac for v200 should be as good as cheap dacs or better so I'm leaning towards v200 with integrated usb input instead of separate cheap dac. Still I suppose I should wait till September for HDVD800 Sennheiser amp impressions.

I based it on my impressions on the V200 vs. using it with LA339.
Anyways. It's more than decent with V200, however, you really should check out the La Figaro 339. If it would have cost twice the price people would have considered it more I think. It's a real gem for the HD650 and HD800.

 

[olor1n]

The Lyr is only as good as the tubes you roll. The balance of the Bifrost is a good foundation for the HD650/800 imo. Roll some Amperex Orange Globes for the HD650 and Amperex Bugle Boys for the HD800 and you'll have a modest, but nice rig that'll accommodate a variety of cans (including planars if you choose to go down that path).

 

[Agarvaen]

I was wondering if Nuforce Icon HDP would be good enough as a DAC for V200/lafigaro since it was praised by HeadphoneAddict - primarily as a DAC, although it doesn't have balanced output. Would it be a lot better then cheaper udac2?
V800 is 1k euro as a DAC alone - provides better quality but I can't get extra 1k.

 

[ValentinHogea]

I highly recommend the HRT MusicStreamer II+ 2012 Ed.
 
Wide soundstage, tight bass, warm(-ish) midrange, crispy but not sharp treble.
I've compared it to several DACs and at aprox 400 USD new, it's fantastic. Especially considering it sells for aprox 250 USD used in the Buy&Sell-forums from US. With some "declared value"-magic 

 it's a no-breainer.
 
Edit:
 
Especially with the La Figaro 339, it's a lot of quality for little cash.
LA339 645 USD with shipping (new) + HRT aprox 280 USD with shipping (used) = win

 

[Agarvaen]

HRT MusicStreamer II+ 2012 Ed. seems to be 350-400 new in Europe making it still quite expensive. How does it compare to HRT MusicStreamer II - its older version which is also a lot cheaper.
I am looking for something to start using good amp straight away and maybe upgrade dac a year later or just get Sennheiser combo HDVD800 if it will be really good and still around 1,5k
 
I'm still wondering if it is worth investing into quality headphones and amp without getting good or very good dac. Also please consider that my source is just a normal pc.

 

[ValentinHogea]

First of all.. There's a "big" difference between the Plus/"Normal" version. In my opinion it's worth it. Blacker background. Wider soundstage. Etc. Etc.
Secondly there's also a "big" difference between the II 2012 Ed and. II and older versions. The "normal" 2012 has almost the same performance as an older "plus".
 
If there's a retailer in the vicinity of your home in Slovakia I recommend you to go there and try the different versions. See for yourself. "Blindly" I can recommend the HRT II+ 2012, as stated previously. You can find a used one for 250 USD. "Without import taxes" into Slovakia it's a lot of "bang for the buck".
 
My priorities are as follows and I think many people will agree...
 
You can create fantastic performance from HD650 and HD800 with a good tube-amplifier like Bottlehead Crack / Little Dot / La Figaro. I would invest in a DAC, especially something with good re-sell value. Like the HRT. They make high quality products that are easy to sell if you want to upgrade. It's all about balancing it out.
 
For example. HD650 (aprox 400USD) add a good tube amp (300-600 USD) and a good DAC (aprox 250-400 USD) gives you more performance than investing 1400 USD in the HD800 and have a mediocre amp and DAC.
However investing 1400 USD in "an even better" amp/DAC to improve the HD650 will improve less than using "mid-/high-range amps/DACs" and instead invest in the HD800. I know it's a big "complicated" but I gotta get to my job... If it's unclear please ask.
 
But "generally" the order in which to "invest" in my opinion. And always think... is there something in the higher order that can improve more than in the lower order at the same cost? E.g. the HD800 + midrange AMP/DAC > HD650 + high-end AMP/DAC.
 
1) Headphones
2) Amplifier
3) DAC
[ 4) Tubes, if it's a tube amp" ]
5) Source quality FLAC/AAC/MP3 etc..
{ 6) Cables... in my opinion cables are mostly a waste of money since there's always something in the upper catergories that can be improved }
 
Best wishes,
V

 

[Mr.Tom]

I was with you 95% of the way until that little jab at Schiit! I've own a butt load of amps over the last 20+years, and the Schiit products are top notch. In the case of the Valhalla, it's by no means over-hyped. 
The Burson's are over-hyped(imo). I got to use one last year for about 2 months, and my old Modded XcanV3 left the Burson in the dust. I have not heard the La Figaro 339, but looks to be a sound design.
 
 
Quote:

I wouldn't recommend the HA-160DS...
 
I have a HA-160D and a La Figaro 339 (w/ HRT Music Streamer II+)
 
Considering that the first one retails for 1250 USD
And the second rig 550 USD (+ aprox 100 USD shipping) + 350 USD
 
La Figaro 339 makes the HD650 SING. I got some inside-info, Headfonia will post a review soon praising it as the best amp for HD650 (and REALLY good for HD800).
Forget the Burson, it's not that good for the money. HRT MSII+ is a much better DAC for starter. Wider soundstage. Thicker sound. Overall better. I've A'n'B a lot. I was expecting much more from both the DAC and amp of the Burson.
 
Secondly the amp part of HA-160D is not that impressive either. Quite "flat" I would say. In my opinion Schiit Lyr and HA-160(D)(S) are heavily over-hyped.
 
Thus, I'll be selling the Burson after just 2 days in my ownership. Tube amp is the way to go with Senn's. In my opinion.
 
Best wishes,