[gordie]

I'd been thinking of getting the Omega II headphones, and then saw some posts about the 4070s, and I was really curious to try them out. I called up Elusive disk (in USA) and they said the distributer had a pair on hand and could drop ship them to me. I was really surprised there was a pair available right away, so I figured what the heck, I'll go for it. The price was pretty good, not as low as import, but not bad, all things considered.

Anyway, I half expected to open the box and find that the distributer was confused and sent me something else (since I've heard these are build to order), and I also was very concerned my Stax 313 amp wouldn't be up to the task of driving these.

Well, I've been listening to them for a few hours, and gotta say I am really digging them, even with the 313 (I use a Headroom Micro DAC to drive the amp, and it has a lot of output, helping the amp push the juice). They are a bit less efficient than my Stax 303s, so the volume on the amp is at 3.5 for the 4070s instead of roughly 3.0 for the 303s.

A couple of things I can comment on - the physical presentation is great for these cans, and since they are pretty expensive, I'd expect them to get the details right. The storage case is very cool, and the headphones themselves look great. One of the first things I noticed, though, is that the phones smell a bit like shoe polish! That's probably from whatever they finished the wood with. I expect this will fade, and it isn't all that strong, just interesting and different...

The cans are pretty big and heavy, and at first they felt fairly oppressive and a bit uncomfortable, but I've had them on for a few hours, and while I think I might end up with a stronger neck if I wear these a lot, I'm surviving. Although these are closed headphones, I could still hear ambient sounds through them when nothing was playing (or even when music was playing softly).

I'll wait for more extended and controlled listening before I start more detailed comments on the sound (and some comparisons, as much as I hate switching between equipment to compare), however I thoroughly enjoyed listening to them tonight, and kept them on for hours, running through a variety of music.

Since there aren't that many people with 4070s, I'm interested to compare notes with these few people on the board that have them. Although these have been billed as "accurate monitors" rather than "musical", I was worried, but IMHO these are extremely musical and eminently listenable, and not some kind of freakish fringe headphone.

Dumping the change on these sight unseen (and sound unheard) had me worried, but with the return policy, I'm only risking shipping charges, and if I continue liking them as much this week as I do tonight, I'll be one happy satisfied camper.

 

[Carl]

Congratulations. It's a shame more people don't give these a go, it's really a unique headphone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gordie /img/forum/go_quote.gif One of the first things I noticed, though, is that the phones smell a bit like shoe polish! That's probably from whatever they finished the wood with. I expect this will fade, and it isn't all that strong, just interesting and different...

It went very quickly for me, not that my sense of smell is particularly good. I think they use some sort of enamel paint.

Quote:

The cans are pretty big and heavy, and at first they felt fairly oppressive and a bit uncomfortable, but I've had them on for a few hours, and while I think I might end up with a stronger neck if I wear these a lot, I'm surviving. Although these are closed headphones, I could still hear ambient sounds through them when nothing was playing (or even when music was playing softly).

They're a strange mix of comfort and discomfort. Kind of like an ergonomic anvil.

Quote:

Since there aren't that many people with 4070s, I'm interested to compare notes with these few people on the board that have them. Although these have been billed as "accurate monitors" rather than "musical", I was worried, but IMHO these are extremely musical and eminently listenable, and not some kind of freakish fringe headphone.

Yeah, that's a load of bull and I wish Stax themselves wouldn't keep saying that. It makes some quaters think they're unsuitable for music listening.

I'd be glad to chat about them as they're truely a unique musical experience.

 

[fjf]

I am curious. Are they THAT different from the 404?. The fact that you pay a grand more for just the enclosure makes this point important.

 

[Carl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjf /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am curious. Are they THAT different from the 404?. The fact that you pay a grand more for just the enclosure makes this point important.

They're about as different from Lambdas as the Sigmas are. Different headphone.

 

[gordie]

Hi Carl

Nice to hear from you. I want to thank you for being the first pioneer who took the plunge, and I think it was mostly your comments that actually gave me the push to try them (130+ pages on the Stax thread makes me too lazy to go back and find out exactly was commenting - I think there might have been one other person too). By the way, the term "ergonomic anvil" is perfect, that is hilarious, but wow - it really is a great metaphor. Not to scare anyone off, though, they are completely livable.

I should probably restrain myself from commenting on these too much before I really spend a week or so listening, but to sum up the experience so far, I'd say the overall sound is rich and crisp - bright and lively without being harsh or fatiguing. Lots of bass when called for, tight and punchy, but on songs without a lot of bass, they don't add any. I am very impressed so far! They also seem very accurate in the sense that as I switch between albums they all sound vastly different.

Something interesting about the 303s for me - if I open my jaw wide, they develop a lot more bass (perhaps too much). I can't sit like that for more than a couple of minutes, though - but the added bass effect must be due to either widening the shape of my face (I have a thin face), or just related to changing the angle/shape where they hit the ear. Without doing that, the 303s are a bit lean to me, even though they can reach down deep. The 4070s don't do this at all, I think they are somewhere in the middle of the extremes, and I prefer the presentation.

On very bright material the 4070s are definitely right in your face, but they really don't seem to fatigue in the same sense as RS-1s or even 580s turned up loud (or the 303s, which can definitely be fatiguing after a while if they are turned up). Most material, even rock and techno doesn't step over that line, but a few songs I quite like do get a bit snappy in the snare drum.

I had heard there is a limiter which kicks in if the music is too loud. I don't know if it acts as a compressor, or if it shuts down the sound entirely, but I haven't gotten any effects like that (I have them moderately loud, not completely cranked, but definitely on the loud side).

I love how drums and bass sound on these, and like the 303s I really like how they handle electronica and rock. Unlike the 303s, which I think fall short for classical and acoustic jazz (something that surprised me actually), these seem fantastic in those departments. (I haven't fully given them their due with orchestral tonight, but I shall do that tomorrow). I like how these render brass and woodwinds better than the 303s for jazz. More body.

Vocals are also superb, and while it is quite possible I am just imagining this, the soundstage seems huge compared to my HP-2s and the 303s. The K1000s still beat them there, but physically the K1000s are spread out more, and well, I just love the K1000s to death.

fjf - I haven't heard 404s, just 303s, but a few reviews have stated the 303 and 404 are very close, perhaps nearly the same. Based on the first night listening to the 4070s (so take this with a grain of salt), the 4070s sound very different than the 303s, much more body, richer and fuller, overall better balance, and seem to have greater control on the bass, with less anomalies in the treble, and so far at least appear to have a far better soundstage.

The 4070s seem to be more satisfying than the 303s in terms of impact, when I listen to the 303s I always feel like I'd want to turn them up a little louder (but I don't, as that will make things worse and start chipping away at my ears), but the 4070s are extremely satisfying at the same volume level, without feeling like I want to turn them up. In any case, Carl nailed it - these are completely different headphones than the 303s. And while the 4070s are roughly three times the price of 303s/404s, as much as I've enjoyed the 303s, they're probably gonna end up on the bench, I think these are that much better.

Carl, since you've had yours longer then me, and have quite a tasty electrostatic collection, I'm interested to hear your impressions, and any comments regarding my initial thoughts on them.

I seem to remember someone posting that they had 4070s and Omega IIs - I haven't had a chance to do extended listening to Omega IIs, the last time I had the chance there were some HE90s which I spent too much time listening to (I loved 'em!) - I'm curious how the 4070s and Omega IIs compare, as they are competitive in the same price range.

Wow, while I was typing this I had to keep stopping and listening to the music that's playing, so it took me quite a while to bounce back and forth between writing this and listening. I am really liking these 4070s...

 

[Carl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gordie /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi Carl Nice to hear from you. I want to thank you for being the first pioneer who took the plunge, and I think it was mostly your comments that actually gave me the push to try them (130+ pages on the Stax thread makes me too lazy to go back and find out exactly was commenting - I think there might have been one other person too).

No problem. It's really sad for people to get into the mindset that there are only three possible choices for electrostats - 404, Omega 2, and HE90. Imagine if dynamic headphones gave you only three choices (say, simply because they were the first three to come to mind, K601, W11JPN, and R10. No other choices allowed! Yeah right.) There are many models of electrostatic headphone covering a range of sounds and pricepoints, and people should buy the one that suits.

I have more plans for pioneering on the near-ish horizon, just as a heads up, more details to follow closer to the time.

Quote:

By the way, the term "ergonomic anvil" is perfect, that is hilarious, but wow - it really is a great metaphor. Not to scare anyone off, though, they are completely livable.

Yes, it was intended to be humourous.

Quote:

Something interesting about the 303s for me - if I open my jaw wide, they develop a lot more bass (perhaps too much). I can't sit like that for more than a couple of minutes, though - but the added bass effect must be due to either widening the shape of my face (I have a thin face), or just related to changing the angle/shape where they hit the ear. Without doing that, the 303s are a bit lean to me, even though they can reach down deep. The 4070s don't do this at all, I think they are somewhere in the middle of the extremes, and I prefer the presentation.

The 4070s have the most accurate bass I've heard from a headphone. Nothing added, nothing taken away. The lack of gunk and distortion in the lower regesters throws me a bit; even most expensive-ish speakers add a fair bit of it, so you have to train your brain to accept that the lack of garbage as a good thing.

Quote:

On very bright material the 4070s are definitely right in your face, but they really don't seem to fatigue in the same sense as RS-1s or even 580s turned up loud (or the 303s, which can definitely be fatiguing after a while if they are turned up). Most material, even rock and techno doesn't step over that line, but a few songs I quite like do get a bit snappy in the snare drum.

They're even less fatiguing if you EQ the mids and treble closer to flat. Their FR isn't quite as good as I'd like, not to suggest they're all over the show or anything.

Quote:

I had heard there is a limiter which kicks in if the music is too loud. I don't know if it acts as a compressor, or if it shuts down the sound entirely, but I haven't gotten any effects like that (I have them moderately loud, not completely cranked, but definitely on the loud side).

That was a mistake on my part, so I'll offer an unequivocal retraction right now: there is no limiter in the 4070s. It is actually in my transformer box, but all my other stats at the time I made that statement were efficient enough not to set it off. The HE60s likewise hit the limiter (actually more often, as they really tempt you to turn the volume up despite knowing better...).

There is a small SMD resistor where the cable connects the the driver (I believe in the bias signal, as there is only one), but I'm pretty sure it does nothing unless something seriously wrong happens upstream.

Quote:

Unlike the 303s, which I think fall short for classical and acoustic jazz (something that surprised me actually), these seem fantastic in those departments. (I haven't fully given them their due with orchestral tonight, but I shall do that tomorrow). I like how these render brass and woodwinds better than the 303s for jazz. More body.

4070s love jazz. Classical is a bit too busy for them (being closed headphones in all), but at least the timbre is better than with the 404s.

Quote:

Carl, since you've had yours longer then me, and have quite a tasty electrostatic collection, I'm interested to hear your impressions, and any comments regarding my initial thoughts on them.

I find it really hard to give impressions without something guiding my impressions; focused questions and all that. I never quite know what to comment on.

Quote:

I seem to remember someone posting that they had 4070s and Omega IIs - I haven't had a chance to do extended listening to Omega IIs, the last time I had the chance there were some HE90s which I spent too much time listening to (I loved 'em!) - I'm curious how the 4070s and Omega IIs compare, as they are competitive in the same price range.

I have not compared 4070 and O2 on my setup. I've booked up a pair of O2s for next weekend, however, so I'll finally be able to give my thoughts re that soon.

 

[mirumu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have not compared 4070 and O2 on my setup. I've booked up a pair of O2s for next weekend, however, so I'll finally be able to give my thoughts re that soon.

Looking forward to listen to the 4070s myself although for me it will be coming from the O2 perspective. Excited at the thought!

 

[spritzer]

It will be great see a comparison on them. I'm really trying hard not to buy the 4070...

 

[gordie]

I just noticed the serial number on my 4070s is #1039. Carl, although you got yours first, mine must have been built around the same time, and are in fact the elder brother to yours.

I was quite surprised they were immediately available (they were supposed to be sent overnight, which would have been a world record to get a pair of 4070s, but they were sent via the slowest possible USPS method by mistake, which took 8 days - possibly still a record delivery?)

Maybe Stax USA (Yamasinc) is deciding to keep some on hand, and since they haven't caught on, these were languishing for a few months. Or perhaps someone backed out of buying the pair and I lucked out.

Damn these things are really fantastic.

-- Gordie

 

[Snacks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gordie /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, I've been listening to them for a few hours, and gotta say I am really digging them, even with the 313 (I use a Headphone Micro DAC to drive the amp, and it has a lot of output, helping the amp push the juice). They are a bit less efficient than my Stax 303s, so the volume on the amp is at 3.5 for the 4070s instead of roughly 3.0 for the 303s.

Is this the Headroom Micro DAC?
In the near future, do you plan on purchasing a different amplifier?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gordie /img/forum/go_quote.gif The cans are pretty big and heavy, and at first they felt fairly oppressive and a bit uncomfortable, but I've had them on for a few hours, and while I think I might end up with a stronger neck if I wear these a lot, I'm surviving. Although these are closed headphones, I could still hear ambient sounds through them when nothing was playing (or even when music was playing softly).

I've read before about the isolation.
How does the clamping feel (just right, too tight, too loose)?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gordie /img/forum/go_quote.gif Since there aren't that many people with 4070s, I'm interested to compare notes with these few people on the board that have them. Although these have been billed as "accurate monitors" rather than "musical", I was worried, but IMHO these are extremely musical and eminently listenable, and not some kind of freakish fringe headphone. Dumping the change on these sight unseen (and sound unheard) had me worried, but with the return policy, I'm only risking shipping charges, and if I continue liking them as much this week as I do tonight, I'll be one happy satisfied camper.

I've read this time and time again.
What it implies...

...there are plenty other headphones around that have the term monitor affixed to them; however, I still enjoy music from them, what's the difference; i dunno.

You are bold, I'll give you that; I hope that your blind ambition pays off! And oh by the way, belated thank you and congratulations on your newfound purchase!

 

[gordie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snacks /img/forum/go_quote.gif Is this the Headroom Micro DAC? In the near future, do you plan on purchasing a different amplifier?

Yes, the Headroom, thanks for catching the typo. Quite an amazing piece of kit for the price and size.

I hope to get a chance to listen to the different Stax amps with the 4070s at the upcoming San Jose Headfest meet - I expected I'd need to upgrade from the 313 to properly drive the 4070s, but so far it is working out OK. If the 727 or 007TII sound much better I'll consider one of those, and if I manage to hear a Gilmore design amp I'll also see... But for now, I am really enjoying the cans even out of the modest 313 amp. The fact that the 313 amp works helps take the pain out of buying a pair.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Snacks /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've read before about the isolation. How does the clamping feel (just right, too tight, too loose)?

Clamping feels good. My head's probably just south of average size, and thin, so not sure how people with larger noggins will do. The physical feel is not a limiting factor for me in any way, last night I left them on until my ears started to fade. They don't isolate as much as other closed cans in terms of keeping out outside noise, but they definitely feel a bit oppressive when you first put them on. Fortunately, that feeling seems to fade with the first song.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Snacks /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've read this time and time again. What it implies... ...there are plenty other headphones around that have the term monitor affixed to them; however, I still enjoy music from them, what's the difference; i dunno. You are bold, I'll give you that; I hope that your blind ambition pays off! And oh by the way, belated thank you and congratulations on your newfound purchase!

Thanks!

-- Gordie

 

[gordie]

just a short update regarding classical listening - the 4070s are, for me (YMMV of course) the best headphones I've ever heard for classical - orchestral and solo piano and anything in between.

Other than Grado HP-2s, I've never been satisfied with other headphones I've owned for classical - strings usually seem strident and cold, pianos don't have enough body nor the attack, and brass instruments sound like metal being thrown at my ears. Well, I exaggerate somewhat, but I've always felt underwhelmed listening to most headphones with classical, and strings and brass were always the biggest problem for me.

Although I find a lot of good qualities in the 303s for classical, they have their problems too, and at the end of the day I found I wasn't using them much for that - they settled into my rotation more for rock and techno. And while some of my classical selections sounded very nice through them, a lot of classical and acoustic jazz ended up too thin, particularly in the brass instruments and the upper octaves on acoustic piano. If not for resurrecting my (previously) neglected HP-2s with new flat pads, or getting K1000s, (and now getting the 4070s), I probably would have been more tolerant of the 303s. They are a great set of headphones (especially at the price), but the upper midrange weirdness they have, especially in comparison to other high end cans, eventually drove me away from using them for music with acoustic instruments. (They are still a fantastic experience for rock and techno, but with the 4070s around I think the poor 303s aren't going to get much action anymore even in that area).

But back to the comments on classical and the 4070s. The Grado HP-2s were always my "go to" headphones for classical, but now they've got stiff competition. After a few more sessions listening to classical and doing some comparisons, I find the the 4070s to be phenomenal in this regard - I'd attribute this to their awesome detail, the fantastic rendering of strings and brass, their accurate portrayal of piano, and their clean and distinct and low reaching bass (if not as hefty as other cans, they certainly have a lot of presence and extension).

Strings are incredibly lush through the 4070s, and the 4070s are phenomenal at representing brass instruments. I noticed much the same listening to acoustic jazz, many of the same qualities came into play to provide an awesome experience in that genre as well.

BTW - this is not to pigeonhole the 4070s as a can just for acoustic music, I spent two days with them listening to rock and electronica, and that's what I was referring to in practically all of my previous (extremely positive) comments. In fact after I wrote this I put the idea in my head and just listened to about an hour of rock and techno.