[Ultron 5]

Hi Everyone,

I am beginning to study the "science" of being an audiophile, because I would like to make more informed decisions about gear I wish to purchase. Currently, I own the following headphones: LCD 5; Empyrean II; VC Closed; LCD-XC (2021) and HD600. If anyone has measurement graphs for these sets, I would appreciate it if you shared images and explanations. I think I have a basic understanding of what I am reading, but I would like to know more. More importantly, especially as it concerns my collection, I would like to evaluate if graphs are representative of my listening experience.

 

[earmonger]

Graphs:
https://crinacle.com/graphs/headphones/
https://squig.link/

Both have info on interpreting graphs.

 

[MidnightSun]

Hi Everyone,

I am beginning to study the "science" of being an audiophile, because I would like to make more informed decisions about gear I wish to purchase. Currently, I own the following headphones: LCD 5; Empyrean II; VC Closed; LCD-XC (2021) and HD600. If anyone has measurement graphs for these sets, I would appreciate it if you shared images and explanations. I think I have a basic understanding of what I am reading, but I would like to know more. More importantly, especially as it concerns my collection, I would like to evaluate if graphs are representative of my listening experience.

This article from Crinacle is also very useful for newcomers.

 

[Ultron 5]

Graphs:
https://crinacle.com/graphs/headphones/
https://squig.link/

Both have info on interpreting graphs.

Thanks, earmonger.

 

[GREQ]

The short answer is, no.

Graphs are never representative of a headphones sound.

They can only provide some clues that must be read in context with the headphone shape, size, transducer type, materials etc.

Two headphones can have graphs that overlay almost perfectly, yet they sound vastly different.

 

[Ultron 5]

The short answer is, no.

Graphs are never representative of a headphones sound.

They can only provide some clues that must be read in context with the headphone shape, size, transducer type, materials etc.

Two headphones can have graphs that overlay almost perfectly, yet they sound vastly different.

Thank you, Greg. What rig are you using to conduct your measurements?

 

[WILLJS]

The short answer is, no.

Graphs are never representative of a headphones sound.

They can only provide some clues that must be read in context with the headphone shape, size, transducer type, materials etc.

Two headphones can have graphs that overlay almost perfectly, yet they sound vastly different.

To ad to this, frequency response changes drastically depanding on the shape of a person's ears, as well as many factors even including bone structure of the skull - for resonant frequency. This becomes obvious when you see the same headphone measured on different rigs: they are all basically similar, but peaks and dip move up and down the frequency range quite a bit.

ultimately, frequency response measurements don't mean much in practice.

 

[Somafunk]

If you wish to dive deeper into the topic then have a listen to THD Podcast here on “Does the measurement curve match the perception of sound quality and can we correlate the two


The Total Harmonic Discussion / the THD Podcast. A weekly discussion on audio and headphone technologies and the people who bring the technology to market.

In episode 97, Vince Rey of Hottinger Brüel & Kjær (HBK) joins again from California to discuss the Buzz, Squeak, and Rattle or ‘BSR’ test audio quality metric. It was developed by Dr. Wookeun Song (HBK). This BSR metric relies on deconvolution and time-varying loudness sound quality, considering frequency and time masking on the human ear. It can be summarised as 'Does the measurement curve match the perception of the sound quality and how can we correlate the two?'

 

[Ultron 5]

If you wish to dive deeper into the topic then have a listen to THD Podcast here on “Does the measurement curve match the perception of sound quality and can we correlate the two


The Total Harmonic Discussion / the THD Podcast. A weekly discussion on audio and headphone technologies and the people who bring the technology to market.

In episode 97, Vince Rey of Hottinger Brüel & Kjær (HBK) joins again from California to discuss the Buzz, Squeak, and Rattle or ‘BSR’ test audio quality metric. It was developed by Dr. Wookeun Song (HBK). This BSR metric relies on deconvolution and time-varying loudness sound quality, considering frequency and time masking on the human ear. It can be summarised as 'Does the measurement curve match the perception of the sound quality and how can we correlate the two?'

If you wish to dive deeper into the topic then have a listen to THD Podcast here on “Does the measurement curve match the perception of sound quality and can we correlate the two


The Total Harmonic Discussion / the THD Podcast. A weekly discussion on audio and headphone technologies and the people who bring the technology to market.

In episode 97, Vince Rey of Hottinger Brüel & Kjær (HBK) joins again from California to discuss the Buzz, Squeak, and Rattle or ‘BSR’ test audio quality metric. It was developed by Dr. Wookeun Song (HBK). This BSR metric relies on deconvolution and time-varying loudness sound quality, considering frequency and time masking on the human ear. It can be summarised as 'Does the measurement curve match the perception of the sound quality and how can we correlate the two?'

Thanks, Somafunk. I will check this out.

 

[Whazzzup]

there's no graph identifying any and all improvements in my rig. There's no graph that says this is what imagery looks like, this is a sub grumbling and these are the goosebumps that follow.

 

[earmonger]

The short answer is, no.

Graphs are never representative of a headphones sound.

They can only provide some clues that must be read in context with the headphone shape, size, transducer type, materials etc.

Two headphones can have graphs that overlay almost perfectly, yet they sound vastly different.

And yet you have your own measuring rig and graph database. So while they are not the whole story, there must be something to be gleaned from graphs.

 

[WILLJS]

And yet you have your own measuring rig and graph database. So while they are not the whole story, there must be something to be gleaned from graphs.

there is some merit to meaurements, but not solely as a way to judge what a headphone will sound like. it is useful to be able to compare measurements of two headphones, if you have heard one of them, for example, if you have heard the HD600, and you have the measurements beside those of another headphone, then you can see differences. this only works of both measurements were done on the same rig.

also, you can measure all sorts of things apart from frequency response, such as distortion, isolation, impulse response, etc.

 

[Ultron 5]

I just finished watching a video on graphs that Resolve did a while back, which supports the idea that graphs should be taken with a grain of salt, especially if they are compensated graphs and the reader does not know what is used to create the compensation. The vertical axis of graphs range between 50 and 110 dB (SPL). Is it that the lower the measured response goes down toward the 20Hz region, the "bassier" the headphone? At least, according to the measurement of the graph. The other thing I haven't heard in the discussion is how source gear impacts our listening experience. For example, I am listening the HD600 using the Schiit Magni+ Modi stack. Most reviewers posit that the HD600 lacks bass but, while not thunderous or anything, the bass I am hearing is not weak/empty. It also seems relevant that the stripe of recording we are listening to plays a significant part, as well. Sonny Rollins Vol. 1 from the BlueNote 75 collection 192/24 is phenomenal using the setup cited herein. And the bass sounds sweet. Feedback will be appreciated.

 

[earmonger]

I just finished watching a video on graphs that Resolve did a while back, which supports the idea that graphs should be taken with a grain of salt, especially if they are compensated graphs and the reader does not know what is used to create the compensation. The vertical axis of graphs range between 50 and 110 dB (SPL). Is it that the lower the measured response goes down toward the 20Hz region, the "bassier" the headphone? At least, according to the measurement of the graph. The other thing I haven't heard in the discussion is how source gear impacts our listening experience. For example, I am listening the HD600 using the Schiit Magni+ Modi stack. Most reviewers posit that the HD600 lacks bass but, while not thunderous or anything, the bass I am hearing is not weak/empty. It also seems relevant that the stripe of recording we are listening to plays a significant part, as well. Sonny Rollins Vol. 1 from the BlueNote 75 collection 192/24 is phenomenal using the setup cited herein. And the bass sounds sweet. Feedback will be appreciated.

Bassier means more bass. So it should be "the higher the measured response goes down toward the 20K region."

Crinacle's graph database lets you overlay two curves on each other (or more if you become a paid supporter).
https://crinacle.com/graphs/headpho...,HD650_S2_(2020)_(fresh_pads)&bass=5&tool=711

The line that's higher in the comparison would be the bassier headphone. (And the line that's higher in the higher frequencies is the more trebly headphone.) Compare the HD650 to the HD600, for instance, and the HD650 is bassier. That doesn't mean there's no bass in the HD600, but it's less emphasized than some people prefer.

Blue Notes were superbly recorded -- all hail the late great engineer Rudy Van Gelder.

Graph measurements are generally done not with music recordings but with test tones -- sine sweeps, white noise, etc. You can find a lot of them at audiocheck.net .

 

[Ultron 5]

Bassier means more bass. So it should be "the higher the measured response goes down toward the 20K region."

Crinacle's graph database lets you overlay two curves on each other (or more if you become a paid supporter).
https://crinacle.com/graphs/headpho...,HD650_S2_(2020)_(fresh_pads)&bass=5&tool=711

The line that's higher in the comparison would be the bassier headphone. (And the line that's higher in the higher frequencies is the more trebly headphone.) Compare the HD650 to the HD600, for instance, and the HD650 is bassier. That doesn't mean there's no bass in the HD600, but it's less emphasized than some people prefer.

Blue Notes were superbly recorded -- all hail the late great engineer Rudy Van Gelder.

Graph measurements are generally done not with music recordings but with test tones -- sine sweeps, white noise, etc. You can find a lot of them at audiocheck.net .

Earmonger, you're the best, thank you. If I am looking at the 20Hz region on the graph and one line is sloping downwards, let's say to 50dB and the other line is sloping upwards to let's say 65dB, is the 65dB line representing more bass? RVG, definitely the man!