Re: disturbing trend
Oct 31, 2007 at 4:01 AM Post #16 of 27
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellenback /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I'd like to ask anyone who has posted in this thread, who owns both a good portable amp and a desktop of equal value, what percentage of performance is missing in the portable amp. To put it another way; will anyone go out on a limb and tell me HOW MUCH improvement I am going to hear between say an Arietta and a Move or a Hornet and a Heed? How much difference are we talking here? 10 %, 20 %? These things are quantifiable, (because sound can be measured) anyone?


I'm not going to guess at some magic percentage of betterness. Things change depending on which amp, headphones and source, and even with the type of music you're listening to. Other than at the lower budgets, most home amps will trouce portables amps in sq, but not always.

You can get a $125 Rockhopper mini^3 that is better than anything I personally know of in a home solution for under $200. I've owned the Hornet and own the Heed. The Heed is simply a better amp for certain (not all) headphones. It can even power K340s decently, but it won't fit in your purse (okay, my purse). The DV 336i at $275ish shipped is a better amp than any portable I know about for the same price. How much better depends on which headphones, what source, which portable amp, etc.

I like portables, believe they serve a definite function, personally own four, and will probably pick up the Pico as well somewhere down the line, but with harder to drive headphones, they just aren't as good for reasons cited in this thead and the other.

BTW, I listened to the Pico and the Predator this weekend with HD600s. I'm happy to say both drove them decently and I could be happy with either one, but now we're talking $500 range. Home amps in the $500 range will still do a better job with those specific headphones if made for high impedence cans. What percentage better? I don't know. Again, which home amps are we talking about for comparison, what music, how ripped, etc, bleh. Now, we have the added in dac. That changes things as well. And, what are your needs for an amp anyway? There's always a trade off with size, budget, etc., etc, but you knew that anyway. There's no magic solution here. Choose what's most important to you and enjoy.
 
Oct 31, 2007 at 5:01 AM Post #17 of 27
Quote:

Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I'm not going to guess at some magic percentage of betterness. Things change depending on which amp, headphones and source, and even with the type of music you're listening to. Other than at the lower budgets, most home amps will trouce portables amps in sq, but not always.

You can get a $125 Rockhopper mini^3 that is better than anything I personally know of in a home solution for under $200. I've owned the Hornet and own the Heed. The Heed is simply a better amp for certain (not all) headphones. It can even power K340s decently, but it won't fit in your purse (okay, my purse). The DV 336i at $275ish shipped is a better amp than any portable I know about for the same price. How much better depends on which headphones, what source, which portable amp, etc.

I like portables, believe they serve a definite function, personally own four, and will probably pick up the Pico as well somewhere down the line, but with harder to drive headphones, they just aren't as good for reasons cited in this thead and the other.

BTW, I listened to the Pico and the Predator this weekend with HD600s. I'm happy to say both drove them decently and I could be happy with either one, but now we're talking $500 range. Home amps in the $500 range will still do a better job with those specific headphones if made for high impedence cans. What percentage better? I don't know. Again, which home amps are we talking about for comparison, what music, how ripped, etc, bleh. Now, we have the added in dac. That changes things as well. And, what are your needs for an amp anyway? There's always a trade off with size, budget, etc., etc, but you knew that anyway. There's no magic solution here. Choose what's most important to you and enjoy.


I was not being confrontational with my question or request for an approximate quantification of "betterness". I bought a Xenos 1HA-EPC for a great price. I want to know how much of an improvement I can expect, all things being equal, if I sell the Xenos and buy an Arietta or a similarly priced amp . Many people in these forums make statements like: "Amp A sounds better than amp B, but it should for twice the price. Is it twice as good (100% better)? No, but as we all know there is the element of diminishing returns to consider and that is a personal choice."
I do all my listening at home. I bought the Xenos because I am on a limited budget and it was at a price I could afford at the time. It sounds very good to me. If an Arietta sounds "considerably" better I would sell the Xenos and buy one. I'm not looking for a "magic" percentage. An approximate one will do.
I love quality sound. I will pay what I can afford to for as much quality as I can get. I listen to CDs and SACDs, not compressed music, ever. I don't however, want to go to the trouble of selling a decent amp, spending more money, and end up squeezing a 2% SQ improvement out of my HD650s and losing the ability of easily moving the amp from room to room. I bought a Cardas cable (second hand) and can hear the difference, especially on SACDs even with the Xenos amp.
This was a practical question from someone on a VERY limited budget who has seen many people on these forums buy and sell amplifiers more often than I would ever care to even if I had the money. Most of us cannot even hear amps before purchasing them, so the opinion of seasoned listeners who have heard many amps is very valuable. An approximate SQ improvement estimate is all I was looking for. It wasn't a challenge.
 
Oct 31, 2007 at 5:11 AM Post #18 of 27
I didn't think you were trying to be confrontational. I hope my answer didn't read that way. I simply don't know how to gauge that answer for you, and tried to explain why. At the time of your original question, no one knew what you wanted to compare. Someone who was familiar with all of those could give you an answer. The question is perfectly legit, but perhaps a difficult one to answer.

I will answer for the Hornet/Heed: depending on headphones and source, the difference can be anywhere from -10% (thinking Darth Beyers in which the Hornet did a far better job as the Heed made the bass a blob) to 80% better with the K340s. For something like the HD600s, I'd say 30-40% better, and for the HD650s, I say only 20% as, like with the Darths, the bass became a bit bloated, but otherwise drove them better.

I'm not trying to be difficult, but it's really not always simple, and I'm genuinely trying to help. It might not be a bad idea to post a thread specifically saying, I want to know how much improvement I can achieve from switching from the Xenos to an Arietta using the 650s. I'm guessing someone has that answer for you.
 
Oct 31, 2007 at 5:53 AM Post #19 of 27
Thanks boomana. I understand sound can be hard to quantify. I was actually blown away by the sound of the Xenos when I first heard it (and still am at times!). I heard the 650s and fell in love with their full, deep sound. They seemed to "add a little muscle" to the 600s so I bought them and sold the 600s.
This thread just added fuel to the fire of my own conflict over whether to move up to a desktop. The Xenos is my first good headphone amp and I could be happy with it forever if need be. I know a desktop would sound better. I just have to find out how much better at what cost.
 
Oct 31, 2007 at 5:55 AM Post #20 of 27
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellenback /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I'd like to ask anyone who has posted in this thread, who owns both a good portable amp and a desktop of equal value, what percentage of performance is missing in the portable amp. To put it another way; will anyone go out on a limb and tell me HOW MUCH improvement I am going to hear between say an Arietta and a Move or a Hornet and a Heed? How much difference are we talking here? 10 %, 20 %? These things are quantifiable, (because sound can be measured) anyone?


Not an Arietta, Move, Hornet, or Heed, but maybe you'll get an idea:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showpo...&postcount=141
 
Oct 31, 2007 at 8:44 AM Post #21 of 27
Thanks for that ASR. The GLite comes up repeatedly in my search for a good match in the price range. The DPS brings the price up a little high but probably improves the sound significantly. I read somewhere that it didn't have a great deal of bass presence and was a tad dry, but you know what they say about opinions. Even if there was some truth to it, I doubt it would be a problem (and maybe even a benefit) with the 650s. The other amp that keeps tugging at me is the Antique Sound Labs MG Head MKIII. I guess I really need to decide if I want a tube or an SS. My feeling is that the 650s might not need the tube warmth that benefit many other headphones. There is an Aria on the FS board right now but I have heard it's pretty warm sounding. If it was just a little easier to audition some of these amps! Sorry for straying off-topic. (At least desktops are being discussed!)
 
Oct 31, 2007 at 1:32 PM Post #22 of 27
I enjoy the Little Dot II much more than the Hornet and the Hornet costs much more. However, the Hornet is very portable and the Little Dot II is a home amp. I too also feel that portable amps over rated in some ways but they are very cool though.
 
Oct 31, 2007 at 1:43 PM Post #23 of 27
Nov 29, 2007 at 8:16 PM Post #26 of 27
Quote:

Originally Posted by AKChastain /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I would venture that when you are in a setting that requires a protable setup, the ambient/background noise is such that the sonic improvements suggested above might be moot.


Not necessarily. I sometimes use portable setups in my bedroom and always at work for the convenience of being able to move them quickly when I want and for the small footprint. For night-time listening, I try for the best sq I can get as that's when I let myself completely listen, immerse myself in the music, as opposed to multi-tasking with a soundtrack. I've heard a good number of portable sources and amps, and there are significant differences in quality when paired with some headphones (not so much with others). Really good portable amps are an important part my listening, and I'm hopeful that designers will continue to make improvements.

If I'm really going portable, I don't even bother with an amp or expensive headphones (like to the gym). There's little point.
 
Nov 29, 2007 at 8:35 PM Post #27 of 27
agree with boomana. i like them for walking around the house even. Plus, there actually are people that can't spend 200 on a headphone amp. Thats why cmoys = hotcakes.
 
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