Ray Samuels Emmeline HR2-- Impressions & Review
Apr 2, 2003 at 6:28 AM Post #31 of 65
Quote:

Originally posted by markl
Hey Tube,
It will be interesting for us to compare notes. I'm very interested to hear your thoughts on the HR-2. I just got my new Burr-Brown op-amps and they are warming up as I type.

BTW: which other ss amps do you have for the comparison? Cheers.

Mark


Hey Mark,

I'll have all the Higher End Headroom amps,all the Meier Audio amps,Grado RA1,and possibly the Creek OBH21 and Sumiko amps.I also have a Super META42 and I'm still tryin' to get a Gilmore V2 for the meet.
 
Apr 2, 2003 at 7:52 AM Post #32 of 65
You can no longer be called tuberoller. You must change your name to The Keeper of ALL things Solid State.
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WOW, Fred, that's a LOT of solid state amps you got there. You related to Joelongwood? Or did you visit him and catch something contageous?
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If would be interesting to hear your thoughts on how the Gilmore V2 and HR-2 stack up against the rest of the pack. Especially against those high end HeadRoom items. Please do a nice long review about the HR2, Gilmore, some Meier gear, and HeadRoom gear. "The Ultimate Solid State Shootout" as seen and heard by tuberoller.
 
Apr 4, 2003 at 10:56 PM Post #33 of 65
OK, the OPA627B's have 3 and a half solid days of continuous burn-in on them. Time for some quick impressions.

Wasn't sure how much IC-rolling would effect sound, as I've never done it before. Yup, that little device can indeed audibly effect sound, about as much as tube-rolling does in tube amps. In other words, they season the sound rather than drastically altering it. Hmmm... is there such a thing as NOS op-amps?
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OPA627B vs. AD797 IMPRESSIONS
I really liked the HR-2 before I put in the OPA627Bs and I really liked it afterward. This is still essentially the same amp, but with some differences in shading and emphasis.

IMO, so far the OPA627s are a little "thinner" and "leaner" sounding than the AD797s, moving you back a couple rows in the soundstage.

Tonal balance is shifted *slightly* upward in my system relative to more "neutral" sounding (at least to me) AD797.

With the OPAs, I have to strain my ears a *little* to make out what the singer is singing, where the AD's put the vocals front and center.

The OPA's do not have the great bass of the AD's. Maybe some people would find the ADs bass "bloated" or over-emphasized. But for me, once deprived of it, I want it back.

The OPAs have a seductive smooothness to the sound, banishing hash and grit that is very appealing. I love the top end-- it seems to go on for weeks, but it's not at all "bright" or shrill, a neat trick. But you can actually tell what *brand* of cymbal the drummer's hitting, and the sound never breaks up so it spares your ears.

Overall, the OPAs, despite the sweet top-end, are more "forgiving" (or "less exciting" depending on your perspective) than the ADs. I could see some people saying the OPAs are "more refined" than the AD797 and others saying the OPAs are "too polite" relative to the AD797.

So far, I'd say you could easily be pleased with either chip, and I don't feel it's a case of one being clearly better than the other. Personal preferences and system matching would affect which route you go. I don't want to over-emphasize the differences, either. The HR-2 is a very enjoyable amp with either IC. However, it should be of note that this flexibility makes the Emmeline quite versatile, capable of being seasoned to your personal preference.

I'm going to keep listening to the new OPAs today, and sometime over the weekend, I'm going to put the AD797s back and write up some final comments and make my own personal choice about which IC I like better.

Oh, yeah, almost forgot... the small matter of the actual review!
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Give me a few days, and I'll get on it. Cheers.

Mark
 
Apr 4, 2003 at 11:13 PM Post #34 of 65
Mark,

Thanks for the thoughts on the new OpAmps. It's nice to know that Ray designed the amp to facilitate easy opamp swapping. neat idea and will go over well with the former tube amp and current tube amp owners, since we tend to want to customize the sound to our individual tastes. I had to spend $50 to have some IC sockets soldered into my old CDP so I could give it a better sound, so including that in the stock unit is a well thought out idea.

I am curious as to how the AD8610 would sound in this amp? I used the AD825 and 843 opamps, and both sounded pretty good to me. I popped in a pair of OPA627s and hated them when compared to the AD units. You need a lot more voltage to stabilize the Burr Brown stuff, and my CDP just didn't do it for them. Many, including ppl and his new PPA, and others, say the AD8610 is the best sounding opamp out there.

Oh well, too many opamps, too little time, eh Mark?
 
Apr 4, 2003 at 11:57 PM Post #35 of 65
Mark,

If you get a chance would you be able to throw in some female vocals into your listening mix? So far I have enjoyed your series of posts and look forward to listening to this amp at the Chicago meet. I am hoping that I find an amp that blows me away at the Chicago meet. I am getting tired of carting my Cosmic back and forth between home and work. I do think it has provided me with a baseline of performance when coupled with the Philips 963.
 
Apr 5, 2003 at 12:27 AM Post #36 of 65
John, glad you reminded me. I meant to include in my impressions that with the OPA627s female vocals and strings are to die for. Yum yum. Sweet, and clear. OTOH, I think this is a sort of *enhancement* rather than the "absolute truth" if you follow me. With the 627's the top end is just breathtakingly open, with a smoothness I've only heard with tubes before (note that the 797s were not "dark" to begin with). But you pay for that with a slightly softer, sort of gauzy midrange and softer bass relative to the AD797.

I'm starting to wonder if the top-end extension I perceive with the 627's is a sort of illusion created by having less bass info to provide contrast, and by slightly rolling the highs. How else can it get that kind of smoothness to the sound, coupled with such apparent extension? Not sure if I'm explaining properly...

I would be interested to hear from our DIY community who know about the sound of different ICs. Are my observations consistent with your feelings on these two op-amps?

Anyway, by all means, give it a listen. Don't know which ICs he'll have in there, though. Cheers.

Mark
 
Apr 5, 2003 at 6:27 AM Post #37 of 65
In my conversations with Mr.Samuels he discussed the ease of swapping ICs and the idea was that guys like me(tuberollers) would love to have an amp we can play with in a similar fashion to a tubed amp.His idea is great and the prospect of having an amp that is this well built and sounds this amazing and being able to tailor the sound to your liking via a IC swap is exciting.I'm having a ball listening to this amp and I think the response at the meet will be very positive.It is also great that Ray will be there to talk about his amp and other products.
 
Apr 5, 2003 at 7:08 AM Post #38 of 65
[size=xx-small] Quote:

Originally posted by ServinginEcuador
Mark,

Thanks for the thoughts on the new OpAmps. It's nice to know that Ray designed the amp to facilitate easy opamp swapping. neat idea and will go over well with the former tube amp and current tube amp owners, since we tend to want to customize the sound to our individual tastes. I had to spend $50 to have some IC sockets soldered into my old CDP so I could give it a better sound, so including that in the stock unit is a well thought out idea.

I am curious as to how the AD8610 would sound in this amp? I used the AD825 and 843 opamps, and both sounded pretty good to me. I popped in a pair of OPA627s and hated them when compared to the AD units. You need a lot more voltage to stabilize the Burr Brown stuff, and my CDP just didn't do it for them. Many, including ppl and his new PPA, and others, say the AD8610 is the best sounding opamp out there.

Oh well, too many opamps, too little time, eh Mark?


[/size]There is enough before and after the opamp in most designs that it seems to me that how an opamp sounds in one application/design might not be indicative of its performance in another application/design.

For example, in a META42 that tangent made to accommodate easy opamp switching, the AD8620 (dual version of AD8610) was, to my ears, generally the least forgiving of the several opamps tangent shipped with the amp, and exhibited the most treble energy of all the opamps. My AD8610-option Meier Audio PreHead, however, is a rich-sounding, full-bodied amp with smooth, smooth, smooth treble, but still possessing good overall detail. The AD8620 META42 tangent sent had good bass. The AD8610 PreHead has stellar bass. Long story short, though these two amps have, for the most part, the same opamp(s), they don't sound like one another.

In my opinion, there's too much else other than the opamp(s) that is different, between the META42 that tangent sent and a Meier Audio PreHead, to generalize about the sound of the opamp(s). It would seem to me that generalizations about the sound of various opamps would be much more easily and accurately made within the context of similar or identical designs/applications. Illustrating this somewhat, respected Head-Fi member/DIY'er aos once said: Quote:

Whenever I feel a need to update an opamp - which so far I did in my old Marantz CC-47 and new Sony SACD 775, I use OPA2228 or OPA2227. These chips behave great as RCA cable drivers and sound wonderful. Remember, just because an opamp works great in META42 doesn't mean it'll do great on its own when driving something tougher than a buffer input pin.


By the way, I'm also listening to a Burr-Brown OPA627'd Emmeline HR-2 (and have also heard it with the AD797's), and preliminary impressions are very good. Does it do all the things the Twin Head Mark II does? Not quite; but then nothing else I've heard so far does either. For its price, however, I'll be interested to see what others think about the HR-2 at the Chicago and Detroit Head-Fi get-togethers -- I suspect it will be very well received.
 
Apr 5, 2003 at 9:27 PM Post #39 of 65
Jude, those are excellent points. I agree that different circuits and different designs will sound differently with the same ICs. Care to offer any thoughts on the Emmeline with AD797s vs. OPA627s?

Well, this morning I popped the AD797s back into the Emmeline. Reaction was almost instant. Ahhhhhhhhh..... that's better! Yes--the HR-2's got it's mojo back!

Good in their way as the OPA627s were, they just didn't seem to have the AD797's je ne sais quoi, and seemed to sap the HR-2 of it's essential "Emmelinity" if you will.
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My personal enjoyment of the music went down slightly when I put the OPAs in, shot back up after putting the 797s back. They have much more "presence" in the middle than the OPAs, better tonal balance and appreciably better bass. I would say that I personally prefer the 797s by a fair margin. But again, YMMV, as your associated gear (and your ears) will be different than mine.

Maybe if I'd been shipped the Emmeline with the OPAs to begin with, that combo would sound "right" to me, and the ADs would sound "off". For my money, though, Ray got it right the first time around.

If you will permit me a potentially sexist analogy, I would suggest that the OPAs make the HR-2 sound more "feminine", where the ADs are more "masculine". The OPAs are softer, more forgiving, delicate and refined, with a silky high-end. The ADs are more muscular, more full and clear sounding, and more aggressive.

I'm exaggerating the differences here to make my point clearer, and I think the HR-2 will sound great with any kind of music you throw at it, no matter which chip you choose. But, if I had to make general recomendations, I would guess that your choice of AD797 or OPA627 would depend on which types of music you listen to most:

OPA627: Acoustic music, orchestral music, strings, horns, female vocals, etc..

AD797: Amplified electric music: Rock 'n Roll, Pop, Electronica/Dance, R&B, Rap, Blues, Country, etc... Anything with drums!

Of course, if you're already in it for $875, why not spend an extra $50 or so to get yourself a pair of OPA627s, and do the comparison yourself! If nothing else, you'll have fun IC-rolling. If you don't like the OPAs, you can probably sell them here to a DIY-er and not lose too much of your investment.

OK, now that my IC-rolling adventure is over, I'm gonna work on that review! Cheers.

Mark
 
Apr 5, 2003 at 10:22 PM Post #40 of 65
Hi there,

The AD979 has a significant input current. handlling this (keep noise and output voltage low) is usually done by having input resistance relatively small at 10k-22k. Now, the Ad device is well optimized to that resistance whreas the OP627 works better at higher impedances (in headroom amplifiers a minimum of 100k).
so, maybe the OP627 amp doen't get a fair fight here.

Robo
 
Apr 5, 2003 at 10:51 PM Post #42 of 65
Ray,

Are you going to have the AD797's in your pocket at the Chicago meet? Mark's review has moved the Emmeline amp to my short list for my home setup.

I am hoping to settle on an amp in the very near future eliminating the unhooking of the Cosmic I have at work. I had the 963SA hooked up at work for a while but it was too much of a distraction as people kept coming by to listen.
 
Apr 6, 2003 at 12:01 AM Post #43 of 65
PART THREE-- WHAT I LEARNED ABOUT HEADAMPS
After about 3 weeks of continuous listening, and after going through dozens and dozens of CDs, I’m now confident I’m ready to write the review, so here it is!

Ha-ha, made you look! No, actually here it *isn’t*. The actual review is in Part Four in a post down below. This is Part Three, dedicated to distilling what I’ve learned so far about headphone amps. This information cost me thousands and thousands of dollars, and I wanted to do something with it, so I decided to pass it on to you! For free! If nothing else, it will help provide the background to the Emmeline Review, and give you a sense of where I’m coming from, and a glimpse at one Head-Fier’s journey so far through the world of headphone amplifiers, which I hope will be entertaining for some of you. If not, feel free to skip ahead at your level of interest. Sections/topics are clearly marked in BOLD.

These are just my own personal opinions/biases/experiences, which are not exhaustive, so take these comments for what they are worth…

MY AMP HISTORY
In the words of David Byrne—“well, how did I get here”? Several years ago, when I first seriously embarked on this headphone odyssey, I purchased a Headroom Home (old version) for my Sennheiser HD580s, which I’d already had for years. I selected Headroom only because I saw their ads in Stereophile, and theirs were the only “headphone amps” I was aware even existed. Well, I didn’t take to the Home at all, and didn’t find that it sounded any better than the jack on my Marantz AV9000 HT pre/pro. So, I stepped up to the HD600s and ordered the Maxed Out Home (old version). I didn’t really find the MOH to be satisfactory either. That’s when I discovered Headwize, and came to realize there were a number of other headphone amps out there, many of them tubed (of course there was nothing like the selection we have today!).

A little detour, if I may. You newbies have no idea how good you have it now. It used to be a lot harder to find reviews/opinions on headphone stuff. Headwize was still in its more formative stages (Head-Fi didn’t even exist yet), and although a goldmine of information, it didn’t yet have the kind of database that it has today. Also, there weren’t really people that took the time to write the sort of comprehensive reviews we have become so accustomed to these days. At best, you’d get a couple paragraphs or a stray comment here or there that were inconclusive anyway. IMO, the hobby as we know it today didn’t really crystallize until Jude started Head-Fi, people got serious, and truly print-magazine-worthy reviews began to be written. Since then, the quantity and quality of information readily available about headphone gear has improved dramatically. Since I benefited so much from others' taking their time, I try to "pay back" by writing reviews myself. So, we've gone from too few reviews with too few words and too little information, to way too many words, and too much info to sort through.
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But I digress. Anyway, I’d never owned any tube gear before and had basically written off tubes as being hopelessly antiquated technology listened to by old codgers with scratchy old mono LPs and ancient Victrolas. However, since I found that the “best” (or certainly most expensive) solid state headamp then available (MOH) didn’t impress me, I’d try a tube amp just to see what would happen if I went in the complete opposite direction. Besides, I figured in a headamp application, you don’t need hundreds of watts of brute force-- in fact you don’t even need a single watt-- so why not try some flea-powered tubes?

So I sold the MOH and purchased an Earmax. Boy, I could tell that it did a lot of things right, and I was instantly seduced by the enchanting tube sound, but it clipped horribly with the HD600s when it was turned up to even a reasonable listening level. IMO, the standard Earmax (which was allegedly designed specifically for the HD600) is completely worthless, and can’t drive any load let alone the HD600. So, back it went and I got the higher-powered Earmax Pro as a replacement. This was much better with the HD600s, with very strong bass, and a very tubey signature, but I found that the EMP was unable to drive the Etymotic ER4S without clipping as the Earmax had done with the HD600. Consequently, IMO, the EMP is probably unqualified to drive anything other than the HD600s to the kind of volume levels I prefer (relatively loud).

Anyway, after discovering the joys of tube-rolling, I was able to bring up the EMP to a level sonically where I was very pleased with it powering the HD600, and used this set-up for a while. Eventually, though, I fell out of love with the HD600, and knew that if I swapped headphones, I probably couldn’t rely on the EMP to be able to drive the new cans.

My next amp was a relatively obscure product by the name of the Berning MicroZOTL, which is still one of the few lower-priced tubed headamps out there able to confidently drive any headphone load, and in fact actually has enough power to drive undemanding speakers. The ZOTL was clean as could be, if a bit polite, and a hair on the bland side with the HD600. But when paired with the Sony CD3000, it made beautiful music. I still think this is a great combo (as do a number of other folks here), and continue to recommend the ZOTL as a companion for the marvelous CD3000. So, in the end, the ZOTL was much more versatile than the EMP, and really shone with the CD3000. I owned the ZOTL for as long as I owned the CD3000.

After falling for the CD3K, I decided it was time to stop screwing around, and when the chance arose I pounced on a used pair of the then relatively undocumented Sony MDR-R10s. I quickly realized that I now possessed a headphone that shamed everything that was upstream of it, including the ZOTL and my source. This set off a round of source upgrades, and led to my selling the ZOTL to purchase a Melos SHA-Gold, the bigger brother of the more common SHA-1 owned by many on this site. I loved the Melos SHA-Gold with my R10s, and quickly upgraded to a SHA-Maestro, the all-out version of the Gold. Let me tell you, the Melos Maestro with NOS Siemens Gold Pin 6922s was one hell of a combo with the R10s. I also continue to highly recommend all the Melos amps at any price level you can afford. This is another one of those rare amps that is perfectly happy driving any headphone, any impedence. This means you can hang onto the Melos while you continue to audition headphones, knowing that you have a world-class amp (at its price point) to tell you how good those new cans truly are.

A PRE-AMP BY ANY OTHER NAME…
And so I was happy for quite a while until one day a few months ago, on a lark, I stuck my R10s into the headphone jack on my Denon AVR-58000 HT receiver, Denon’s top-of-the-line showcase product. To my utter disbelief, I could not deny that the jack on my Denon was equivalent to the Melos Maestro in a number of important ways, better in a few, and not as good in some others. On balance, after listening to the Denon’s jack I could no longer justify hanging on to the Melos Maestro, given that I could be equally happy with either one. This experience just confirmed two separate realizations that had been percolating in my mind for some time:

1. A headphone amp is nothing but a limited-function pre-amp.
2. It’s a myth that “all jacks on all non-headphone amps suck”.

Over the course of going through 8 separate headamps in my system, I've concluded (to my own satisfaction, anyway) that what is marketed as a “headamp” is nothing but a limited-function pre-amp by another name. Look at the functionality of a basic pre-amp vs. a headamp-- you have audio inputs, a volume control, a source selecter, and a headphone jack. If it's a good pre-amp, chances are it will make a good head-amp and vice versa. In fact, many of the better headamps also happen to function as good pre-amps, or also offer pre-amp functionality. Many of the most cherished “headamps" are actually pre-amps. In fact, Ray Samuels, designer of the HR-2 is primarily known as a maker of high-quality pre-amps. It was probably only natural for him to turn to the headphone amp as an extension of his product line.

IMO as a layman, there's really not much special voodoo in what we call a "headamp" vs. what we call a "pre-amp" (outside of crossfeed in some units, and the ability to drive tough loads like the HD600). If you already have a component that has a top-quality pre-amp section and it has a headphone jack, why spend all that money on a separate box that recreates the exact same functionality? The amount of power required to drive cans is very low, not really more than a good pre-amp generates in the process of just being a pre-amp. IMO, adding a $300 “headamp” to your $1200 pre-amp with headphone jack, could end up being a waste—you may have to get a $700-$1000 headamp to have sound/parts quality equivalent to your existing pre-amp.

The lesson I took from all this shuffling in and out of equipment, was not to be afraid of trying out the jack on your receiver, integrated amp, pre-amp, pre/pro. You never know, if it's a good pre-amp, it just might have a headphone jack that can compete with many of the budget amps (sub-$500) out there. There's a growing group of folks here who go after the vintage 70s-era Fisher and Marantz receivers/integrated amps strictly for their headphone jacks. So, hey, give it a shot! As one Member's signature so astutely states: "if it *sounds* good, it *is* good."

I realize these comments/opinions/theories/"revelations" are very general in nature, and there are no doubt many exceptions to any of the "rules" I've come up with.

That said, my particular experience has also led me to conclude that it’s a myth that the headphone jack on your audio component automatically sucks by default.

I've never seen much focus or attention paid to the entire topic of headphone jacks in other non-headamp products, except to repeat the usual mantra about them being sub-par, which in most instances, I can see being a pretty reasonable assumption. After all, "good headphone jack" is going to be on the feature priority list at number 2113. The receiver has an awful lot of jobs to do, there's a ton of technology crammed in there that make up the bulk of the cost. Whereas a dedicated headamp is made for one purpose only-- to provide good, clean headphone sound. But that's not to condemn all receivers, as I've heard at least 2 exceptions to the “rule” (granted at very high price-points).

On my Denon AVR-5800 receiver, for example, the jack’s sound quality is outstanding, very dynamic, immaculately clean, and detailed, with a great top-end, but it isn't as warm, lush or romantic as tubes, which is a definite trade-off. In addition, if you read this whole post, you’ll recall that I said that way back when, I found the Headroom MOH (old version) to be not as good as the headphone jack on my then Marantz AV9000 HT preamp/processor.

I realize these are both relatively expensive pieces of equipment. I agree that it is unlikely that a $500 receiver is going to have a great pre-amp section and headphone jack. I am certain, however, that it's safe to assume that, in general, the better the quality the receiver, the better the quality of its headphone jack.

However, in my mind, these insights do NOT apply to jacks on CDPs/DVD players. Even if you have a $1000 DVD player, by expecting a good headphone jack, you’re also asking your DVD-player to act as good pre-amp. Now while I assert that a headamp = a pre-amp, I’m NOT saying that a CDP = a pre-amp! Nope, even I can tell those are two totally different beasts! So, no, it’s unlikely that the headphone jack on your $1000 DVD player is going to be as good as a $300 dedicated headamp.

Anyway, long story short, it turns out the pre-amp section of my Denon AVR-5800 is fantastic, and the headphone jack plugs straight into that, so it sounds just great driving my Sony R10s. Here I was going to stay for a long time until I was in a position to purchase for my R10s an amp such as the Cary CAD300SEI, or some other over-the-top piece like that. And some day, I'm sure I will!

But in the meantime, Jude contacted me about doing this review of the much more sensibly priced Emmeline HR-2, and I thought—why not? I’ll give it a spin, and so here we are... almost, but not quite at the actual review.
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Mark
 
Apr 6, 2003 at 12:52 AM Post #44 of 65
Hi john_jcb

At the Chicago meet we will have two Emmeline HR-2 amps.
the 1st equiped with AD797 Op-Amp, & the second utilising
OPA627BP. I will bring with me my CD player ( Meridian 508
24 bit ) with some MIT teminators interconnectors. So bring your
cans & CD's to taste the flavor of both Amps.
Ray
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