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Originally posted by KR...
ROTFLMAO!!!! Ok, I think everyone who reads your post and this one can figure out who really is speaking the truth here. |
Exactly -- you are so removed from reading what I've said that you deny the possibility of a preponderance of empirical evidence and instead spout your usual generalizations. You seem unable to analyze a single statement on your own -- all you can do gesture nebulously and make inarticulate non-reasoned references to "the truth": "The Truth Is out There."
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| Why the hell would I read keyboard magazine? |
Gosh, KR -- and here I thought you were the fount of web knowlege, the one who was going to inform us all about matters esoteric and topical. It never occurred to me that you'd be uninterested in a potential source of musical information.
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| Oh yes, the keyboard, the most Metal of all instruments, LOL!!!!: Yeah, you really convinced me , |
What did you say moments ago about *my* knowing nothing about metal? Yes, yes, of course -- no self-respecting metal band has *ever* used keyboards. I don't have to "convince" someone who fails to do his homework.
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| five-minute web searches? What?!? You really think I just started listening to metal or am lying about being a fan of it? Do you honestly think that any sane person on this board is buying your ********? |
I'm glad you've gotten your feelings out in the open, KR. Now that you've done a bit of healthy screaming, let me ask you: Aren't you the one who continually speaks of doing web searches for research? And isn't it a tad inconsistent on your part to claim you're "not buying" my background as a musician in the preceding paragraph and then hyperventilate here about my supposedly "calling" you "a liar" (which I never did)?
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| Of course there have never been any women in metal in the 80's, 90's or now |
Your participation here is making me wonder whether any of your research should be taken seriously: if you can't comprehend what's said on this thread, then how can you be trusted to give us synopses of facts from other places? You've paraphrased me incorrectly as having said that all people who listen to metal are white trash, that all are white, that there are no women or black people, etc., etc. I'd thought your reading comprehension skills were better than this.
What I said was that in *my personal experience*, on the sessions and rehearsals in which *I, personally, participated,* there was far more racism and sexism than in the rap sessions I've done. During auditions, I saw women and black singers get rejected outright. And I never saw any women or black musicians in metal sessions in New York City, one of the most racially diverse cities in America. That's all I said.
If you wish to dispute that I could have had some experience or other because you feel the circumstances sound impossible, then be my guest. But don't make the glaring mistake of presuming that, when I say *in my experience,* I actually mean *everywhere in the world at once.*
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| Anyone who listens to metal knows that this is complete ******** as there were and are many. There are many Asian, Mexican, and Brazilian metal bands. Metal isn't just "white folk" music you know. |
Finally, a good point. Yes, there are non-white metal bands and metal fans as well. A kid from Brazil, who lives across the hall from me, grew up listening to Sepultura (and his mother, who lives with him, approves). Even back in the 80s, there were bands like King's X.
But again, you're suggesting that when I say, "85% of the metal musicians I've met or worked with," I actually mean everyone who has ever been in or listened to a metal band. In which case, my friend, the faulty logic is yours.
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| Rap on the other hand has very well known history of raps that are degrading to women. |
And there are endless misogynistic songs about women in metal as well. The difference is the factor of *inclusion*: there are several women rap artists, many of them so popular that they've crossed into film and television. Not so with black women metal musicians.
And of course various species of metal are going to change in relation to the growing multiculturalism of the world generally. You wouldn't have reactionary racists like Varg vying for attention if racial acceptence weren't commonplace.
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| They are also tons of raps that talk bad about white people, but yet you have to look for nazi bands to find any that talk bad about blacks, and even among the nazi bands, you would have to look pretty damn hard. |
A trip to Portland, Oregon might convince you otherwise.
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| Just because you were hanging out with a bunch of idiots doesn't mean you should paint brush an entire genre of music. That's the same thing that racists people do. |
Fascinating -- the sessions I did for years and decade of experience with bands are reducible to "hanging out with a bunch of idiots" instead of amounting to the kind of research journalists do routinely while writing a story.
And while we're on the subject: I didn't "paintbrush" an entire *genre of music*. What I did was suggest reasons for the *motivation of certain individuals who love metal genres and loudly disparage rap*. It isn't ignorance to conclude, based on hundreds of conversations and experiences, that the majority of anti-rap statements made by metal musicians and listeners are unconsciously racist. Note that I'm using exactly the same words this time: unconsciously racist.
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| There is no such thing as white trash, people of any creed or color are not trash, they are human beings. |
Thank you, Dr. McCoy.
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| No one in Black metal or any serious black metal fan takes Varg Vikernes seriously, Varg has nothing to do with Black metal anymore and hasn't since 1996. |
How could he? He's in jail.
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| Who is the biggest Black Metal band in the world right now? Since you are claim to know more about metal than me you should know this. |
Actually, I "are not claim" to be the Master of Metal (drum roll) but rather someone who has had more direct experience of it than your web searches (which you keep talking about) would afford. And you would do well to remember that it was you, not I, who unzipped your fly and dangled the word *ignorance* in everyone's face. It's you who has continually told people they were ignorant, therefore it's you who should "already know" about the existence of every genus of metal, rap and Serbo-Croatian zydeco in the known universe.
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That's the biggest pile of **** that I ever heard. Truth be known that NO, and I repeat NO self respecting black person would ever call themselves that term or use it when referring to their friends. The ones that do are ignorant period, that includes you as well. |
Again, through your verbal alchemy, I have become not a person who may use the word *white trash* ironically because he is white, but rather a white person who feels free to use the N word. And yet there is not one instance anywhere in the world -- in a book, on a forum, in an interview -- in which I've used the N word. And to call ignorant every single black person who has ever used that word in any context is itself a bit spare on the book-learnin'.
Really, a lot of this pointless debate could have been cleared up if you'd paid attention and noticed that I spoke of metal musicians who hated rap, not all metal. And in this context, "soundtrack of the white trash of the world" is an ironic put-down of said white elite, not an indictment of all metal musicians and listeners. Since you're trying to engage me in an omniscience tug-of-war, you of all people should know.
