[IEMusic]

It’s not called hype until the validity of the talk is questioned here.

Before that it’s just considered a good recommendation.

I agree, for example, it’s hype when ludicrous assertions start being made, typically comparing a budget item to a TOTL item.

 

[baskingshark]

I agree, for example, it’s hype when ludicrous assertions start being made, typically comparing a budget item to a TOTL item.

BLON BL-03 is a prime example! A certain youtube reviewer says it is better than some TOTL sets. Well to each their own as this hobby is subjective, but the BLON BL-03 for me lacks in technical performance, fit (especially), isolation and in having a too boomy and slow bass to qualify as a TOTL giant killer. With complex music, the bass can't keep up, and there's a mid bass bleed to boot.

It is good for the price though for sub $30 (though factoring in aftermarket tips and cables for the atrocious fit might bring it closer to $40 - 50 USD. And I think in the timbre and tonality department it can hang with $100 gear. Definitely it has good price to performance ratio, but I beg to differ that it is a TOTL giant killer.

 

[Sebasistan]

Definitely it has good price to performance ratio, but I beg to differ that it is a TOTL giant killer.

Which gets me to wonder: are there ANY actual TOTL giant killers? A set of IEMs (or headphones) that go for, I don't know, $30-200 but sound LEGIT like a multi thousand dollar device? And if they do, is that because those "giant killers" are so good - or is it because (some?) TOTL devices are simply overhyped and overpriced? Or because some reviewer / forum member used a legit BAD TOTL device (there's variation in somewhat subjective quality in lower price tiers, so there certainly also is in the upper echelons?) as direct comparison?

Or is it simply PHYSICALLY impossible for anyone to build a device that's sold below $200 that sounds like a device selling above $1000?

And I've read so many reviews of so many devices now that say something like "[device] punches way above its price point of [cheap]." What DOES price even mean any longer when there's so many devices that "punch above their price point"? Doesn't that redefine the price point?

 

[IEMusic]

...or is it because (some?) TOTL devices are simply overhyped and overpriced?

I really think this is primarily the case. Not all $2,000 IEMs are equal, and there’s definitely some really expensive crap out there.

 

[Redcarmoose]

In defense of the fabled hype creation in our hobby; it’s a phenomenon believed as much by the reviewer, at times. Of course there are paid shills which construct a fully “fake” review. But the others are truly sincere in believing the quality of the TOTL killer $50 IEM.

And sincerely there should be stuff that’s close, but somehow there is no such thing. There are no $200 IEMs that sound like the best $2000 to $3000 IEMs, no matter how much we wish there was! Such speculation about the hype phenomenon is far beyond ideas of sound signature taste and revolves around all the basic ideas and attributes we use to judge all IEMs.

At first I thought there may be somehow paid posters which contribute to the hype effect. But after close study it’s maybe not needed. There exists a fully ready and emotional group ready for the plan of a $100 giant killer to exist and rule for a short time, only to somehow be dethroned in 8 weeks and surpassed by another.....and on and on.

And while yes, there are $400 IEMs that beat out $800 IEMs, they still don’t perform with a well rounded finesse like you find with popular TOTL offerings.................somehow there is always something “off” no matter how much we don’t want it to be there.

But with-in the ideas of correctness of character there are examples of cheap IEMs which do really good at one or two musical genres. There is entertainment and fun, but most of all there is hope and curiosity. A belief in what someone else wrote and an on-going delusion that’s fun to go along with. It’s not till time has passed and the hype worn off can a person go back and discover that there are blaring faults and inconsistency in maybe build quality or tone response and technicality.

Not all $2000 are great but many are as long as you can gel with the sound signature. None are perfect but some are nice, and somehow better always than the $165 hype that’s pushed on a monthly basis. IMO

 

[Sebasistan]

This is one of the reasons I find the (very subjective) lists the DBZ avatar people on here (how did THAT happen anyway...) compile so helpful. Sure, they, too, frequently list the $2000 devices as "S-tier" but also assign 'bang/buck' ratios which at least give a pedestrian like me some semblance of insight into what cheaper devices perform on higher levels - at least in the eyes (ears) of the people compiling giant comparative lists of IEMs and headphones who all have DBZ avatars for some reason (is that coordination or coincidence?).

 

[IEMusic]

The law of diminishing returns also plays a HUGE role in our perceptions when comparing a more budget or mid-fi item with a TOTL item. The exponential rise in cost for only a little (but sometimes significant) improvement in sound is often not worth it to consumers, and further supports the idea or “delusion” that the budget item is a “giant killer”.

 

[Deolum]

I'm shocked how much of a role the setup before the headphone plays when it comes to soundstage. I always thought soundstage is determined mostly by headphones but man i was wrong.

It became so clear when i just plugged my InEar Prophile 8 into my LG G7. The Prophile 8 is a BA IEM and the G7 has on paper enough power to drive it. Playing the Album with the biggest soundstage i know (up close (binaural) from ottmar liebert, just got this beautiful tip) the Prophile 8 has absolutely no soundstage out of the G7. Everything is just flat.

Plugging the Prophile 8 into my desktop setup the difference is not even enough described with night and day. The difference is much bigger. Soundstage becomes tremedous and everytime i listen to that album on my main setup i wonder how this is even possible. But out of my G7... nothing.

 

[GREQ]

Giant killing under $200 is strictly reserved for modders and vintage enthusiasts... and even then it's still either largely subjective or even more strictly reserved for ultra-rare high-end stuff, some of which does not stick to the '>$200 rule' (most of the time).

Strictly speaking, I think I've only ever heard 2 vintage headphones that truly compete with TOTL giants for price/performance that DONT require extensive modification... so it's an even deeper rabbit hole than the usual modern one, since the only way to audition them is to buy them or make good friends with a local collector.

 

[Redcarmoose]

The main problem is that getting used to the correct sound is difficult. A person who goes to an audio show or meet can’t actually get a good demo test. The environment is not fully beneficial to discovering what a perfect IEM would be for the consumer. It could take two weeks or a month of listening to know what’s up. Listening at a show can tell a person the general idea, but mental burn-in is huge, and real. So if a person has less experience hearing when reproduction is correct, even the off ability of the $160 IEM is still going to be emotional and of a style of value. But if they eventually get better gear, they will go back and notice the deficiencies of that “Hyped” IEM with-in 30 seconds. It seems experience gives people 20/20 hindsight.

And I’m speaking of personal history, as I don’t want to come off being on a high horse here, or anything.

 

[GREQ]

I've had some people bash my 'short 30 minute impressions' on some headphones on the assumption that it was at a noisy audio show, but I've got a really nice high-end shop in the city with a silent dedicated headphone listening room.
It's actually amazing how much 'listening' you can get done in the right environment, but even then, I am still aware of the infallibility of my own ears when I have returned for 2nd or 3rd auditions and heard things sliiiiiightly differently the next time around with a few 'ooohs and ahhs' moments.

This is why now I usually take a more neutral portable headphone with me on the way there to 'reset my brain' beforehand.

 

[ChrisOc]

And I've read so many reviews of so many devices now that say something like "[device] punches way above its price point of [cheap]." What DOES price even mean any longer when there's so many devices that "punch above their price point"? Doesn't that redefine the price point?

Difficult one. Price is a clear and definitive marker for categorisation but also flawed. There are many reasons why the hype is generated and many reasons why price as a determinant of quality is flawed, some of which have been mentioned already.

On the hype point, one could genuinely believe that a set of IEMs or headphones are the best, because they know no other. Whilst others have something to gain from the hype. However, the speed at which newly developed drivers are filtering down to less expensive models is incredibly fast. There are good commercial reasons for that. Put simply, two ways to make money are sell at a high price or "pile em high sell em cheap". There are only a few who can afford high price IEMs or headphones without making sacrifices, so regardless of how much developers of new tech want them to be exclusive, at some point reality sets in or they become easier to produce, the developer then moves to the mass market.

Price as a determinant of quality is flawed in that while there might be those who are creating wonderful products, the prices of which truly reflect their high quality, that is not always the case and more so time may bring competitors closer, and the fact is that "time equaliser" is getting shorter and shorter.

The other side of the coin is, "I paid a lot of money for these so they must be excellent", whether that is psychological or just elitist is irrelevant.

The other reason is tuning. Regardless of how good a set is, if another set using the same or similar drivers can be tuned very well by the right person and sell it at a lower price they will, on the premise that they can sell more. The "Just in time" commercial principle means they can get the parts in quickly (but importantly, just in time) to build, get the item to the customer and cream off profit, on that basis cost of holding stock is reduced.

Things are changing fast, so why should price determine quality? Is there another measure of quality? There are more questions than answers.....I leave it here before I break into song ....

 

[Redcarmoose]

I'm shocked how much of a role the setup before the headphone plays when it comes to soundstage. I always thought soundstage is determined mostly by headphones but man i was wrong.

It became so clear when i just plugged my InEar Prophile 8 into my LG G7. The Prophile 8 is a BA IEM and the G7 has on paper enough power to drive it. Playing the Album with the biggest soundstage i know (up close (binaural) from ottmar liebert, just got this beautiful tip) the Prophile 8 has absolutely no soundstage out of the G7. Everything is just flat.

Plugging the Prophile 8 into my desktop setup the difference is not even enough described with night and day. The difference is much bigger. Soundstage becomes tremedous and everytime i listen to that album on my main setup i wonder how this is even possible. But out of my G7... nothing.

Right, everything matters. The source, the file quality and the amplifier.

Many things are like this. I don’t build guitars but my friends who have taken up the hobby of building their own guitar always remark.....everything you do starts to affect something else. It gets called synergy, it’s absolutely damping factor with full-size headphones.

But that irregularity is the biggest source of confusion about end sound. The entire system completes the sound. Also a number of elements can push an IEM closer to being well rounded or closer to a member’s desired sound-signature....or farther away. But if that’s not taken into account IEMs or headphones start to get judged in absolutes.

 

[Redcarmoose]

I agree, for example, it’s hype when ludicrous assertions start being made, typically comparing a budget item to a TOTL item.

Also you have to take into account how many are emotionally motivated by how stuff sounds different. How many times has the whole audio industry changed it’s stance. Change is exciting and if we are told that it’s beryllium making that change....well, that has to be a good thing, and it’s self confirming. “Oh this new technology is making these $200 IEMs sound like $2000 IEMs”

When in reality it’s just technology having a new and exciting tone, maybe not better but different. Stereo in the 1980s was bright, 1980s music was mixed bright and thin and people thought it was technically better. 1970s music was mixed darker and slower, it was this contrast that was exciting and new. If some new IEM you get has a special way of doing treble then it is something we focus on. Also there is always that endorphin influence from a new purchase. People buy cars not because they are better, they buy cars because they are new, and they look for that new car buzz.

 

[Redcarmoose]

I've had some people bash my 'short 30 minute impressions' on some headphones on the assumption that it was at a noisy audio show, but I've got a really nice high-end shop in the city with a silent dedicated headphone listening room.
It's actually amazing how much 'listening' you can get done in the right environment, but even then, I am still aware of the infallibility of my own ears when I have returned for 2nd or 3rd auditions and heard things sliiiiiightly differently the next time around with a few 'ooohs and ahhs' moments.

This is why now I usually take a more neutral portable headphone with me on the way there to 'reset my brain' beforehand.

And what about our very own gear that we have owned for years sounding different from time to time. I normally have one day a week where stuff just doesn’t sound like it used to.

But we all have our parameters which we know we like. Be it a subtle V or mid-forward we kind of know what to expect. The best learning experience I’ve had was at a meet where I heard a headphones personality on a great system but decided to see how close that headphone could be changed with cables or amplifying, just to make sure it really wasn’t for me. At times when a headphone is so popular you kind of want to go to the farthest place to make sure your never going to want it. And the fun part is when you do place it closer in one direction but in the end that natural character can’t be changed. So even at a meet you were able to get closer to learning about a new headphone. Still there is always that curiosity of what the experience of ownership would be.