[digicom_t1]

Thanks to Drubrew of Moon Audio for taking over for Jeff,

The mini meet in Raleigh was finally on. Jeff's youngest daughter was to graduate on the day we chose for the meet - congrat's Jeff! Drew offered his place for the meet and a gracious host he was - Thanks!

It was a small group that met: Drew, vrao81, saternine, dhwilkin and myself. There was, however, no shortage of excellent equipment to check out !

Since I arrived late and had only a couple of hours to gather my impressions, they will be brief. Hopefully, Drew, Vic, Allen and Doug will fill in here. Perhaps Allen can post links to the pics he took.

I had several goals in going to this meet but due to the roof being damaged in a storm the night before I got a late start. So I cut it back to just sampling everything I could.

What follows are more thoughts than impressions, I'll leave the fuller impressions to others.

Head Phones
RS1's, Senn650's and Moon Audio Cables

I recently sold my RS1's to finance another headphone purchase (SA5Ks). Since then, I wondered whether I should have sold my 650's instead. Well after hearing my Senn 650's with Moon Audio's Silver and Blue Dragon cables, I now know I made the right decision.
In a perfect world I'd have kept them, alas, not on my current budget. But these cables make the Senn HD650's a completely different animal. The difference between these and the stock cables is demonstrable if not astounding. Either of these cables is a major improvement over the stock cable.
The differences between the Blue and Silver is hard for me to describe given the short time I had to listen. I've heard the term "veil" associated with the Senn650. The Blue cable lifts the veil enough to improve what some feel is missing or dark but leaves enough of the darkness for those that appreciate that quality. It also puts some punch back into these fones or perhaps they just sound faster. The Silver lifts the veil entirely making them sound a bit closer to the Sony - see my comments on the Senn HD 580.

Senn HD580

I briefly owned a pair of these and quickly sold them to jump on the HD650 bandwagon. Since then I've had a nagging feeling that the 650 was way overpriced compared to what I got with the 580. My thoughts were confirmed. I had a chance to listen to Vics HD580's and you know what? The HD580 is, in my mind, a great value.
The 650 does some things better but compared to the 580 - it does sound a bit veiled. Now put the Silver or Blue Dragon on it and you get some of the good qualities of the 580 back and then some. But look at the price difference and cable cost!
Will I sell my 650's and go back to the 580? No, as I said, for me, The silver dragon addition to my Senns makes it a completely different animal. It will compete with any other $500-$600 headphone out there which is about what I have tied up in the SA5ks. I just think the HD580 is a great bang for the buck and hard to beat without spending a whole lot more money.

Alessandro MS-1

Allen brought his MS-1's and I was quite impressed. Although I only listened briefly and did some A/Bing with the RS-1s, I might be tempted to buy a pair of these. Hope to hear more of them at the next meet. As a former Grado fan, my headphone rack has a conspicuosly empty spot at the moment. So does my back pocket - my wallet hopped out and scampered off when I was discussing cables with Drew! I hope it finds it's way back home soon.

Amplifiers
Dynahi and Mister X PPA

These amps were truly impressive. Drew built the Dynahi and the PPA is owned by saternine. The PPA had AD8610 opamps and diamond buffers. Both of these amps are smooth and have a lot of punch. I think the Dynahi edges out the PPA but both of these are wonderful amps. As I said before, I didn't have time to listen long enough to give anything more than a quick initial impression. But I can say that they both exhibit some tube like quality with all the punch that transistors offer and absolutely no harsh qualities. I did listen using Senn 650, 580, RS-1, MS1 and Sony SA5ks and these amps happily drove all of them most excellently!

Antique Sound Labs MG Head tube amp

vrao81 had his MG head hooked up to his Onyx XCD-88 cd player. This was an especially pleasing combo. Being a tube amp fan myself, I thought this produced a wonderfully addicting sound. I had looked at the MG Head when I was seeking a tube amp but settled on the Woo Audio 3. Having finally gotten a chance to hear the ASL MG Head, I can highly recommend it. I paired my Woo up with the Music Hall CD25 and really like it too. But Vics combo sounds different and somewhat more refined than my set up.
I don't know wheter its the combination , amp or source. But I would recommend this set up to anyone interested in jumping into tube amps without costing an arm and a leg. Tube sound without being too lush, smooth highs, huge mid range, plenty of bass and the added punch of an opamp driven cd source - good choice for a variety of musical tastes.

Max Headroom amp and MF NuVista cdp

dhwilkin supplied these as well as some other equipment that I didn't get a chance to sample. Recently I sold my Headroom Home. My amp was a couple of years old and in great shape, but i thought it too harsh with my Grados and my Senns sounded too dark driven by it. I had been using my Shellbrook Labs Pimeta which drove both headphones much better. So I wasn't expecting too much from Doug's Max Headroom. But boy was I wrong! Once again I tried Senns, Grados and Sonys with it and it sounded great. The NuVista is a fine source too. This is another good combo that will wring the best out of any headphone you throw at it.

A1Simple amp for Ipod

I don't know anything about this amp. But I can tell you it is one of the best sounding portable amps I've heard. I have 9 portable amps ranging from single Opamp to Duals in tins or hammond cases built by 5 different people in Ti Burr brown, AD and National Semiconductor flavors and this one blew me away! I hope Drew will post some info on this amp and whats in it and the cost. It's not a Pimeta or PPA of course but it isn't much thicker than an Ipod, clips to the back of the Ipod and both were in white. A slick looking package loaded with sound!

Single Power PPX

Single Power sent a PPX for demo and many thanks to them for doing so. However, this amp has been making the rounds at the various meets and it just didn't sound right. Something was obviously wrong and I won't say any more because an impression just wouldn't be fair.
However the source, an Onkyo DV-SP1000 , was excellent. I had an opportunity to listen to the Dynahi driven by this and was very impressed.

Final Thoughts

All of the equipment I had a chance to listen too sounded great. I'm sure if I had more time to spend with each piece I would be able to give a more informed and critical analysis. The price gamut of the equipment ranged from the modest to the not so modest. Suffice to say that there was something within everyone's budget and I thought the combinations of source, amp and headphones exhibited the qualities of each piece well.

As a matter of fact, I think most of the equipment demonstrated a wide tolerance in that there appeared to be no glaring mismatches even though some amps, sources and headphones were switched around. The only unforgiving piece was my Woo amp that just doesn't like Grados: distortion at even low volumes. It didn't like my 325's or RS1's when I had them, nor did it like Drew's RS1s or Allens MS1's. I can not recommend the Woo for Grado fans. Go with the ASL MG Head if your looking for a tube amp in this price range.

I wish the PPX had been in good working order - I was really interested in hearing that. I also did not get an opportunity to hear Allen's EMU - time ran out. That's what happens when you're late!

I had a great time and got to meet a great group of headfiers - well worth the 5 hour commute there and back to China Grove.

Thanks again to Drew, Allen, Vic and Doug for making this the highlight of the Spring - hope I can make the June meet! ---- Tom

 

[saturnine]

Here are some pics:

I'm late for work, so I'll write up some impressions and add more pics later this evening

 

[Jeff E]

digicom_t1 wrote:"Jeff's youngest daughter was to graduate on the day we chose for the meet - congrat's Jeff! "

Tom,
I appreciate your congratulations. I am proud of Rachel. She is a bright young woman who has worked hard both in and outside of school. (Imagine a proud dad's smile.) Time for both of us to start working on transitioning toward a more peer-like relationship now that financial dependence isn't in the picture.

Now back to the meet that I missed. Even though the Dalai Lama says that worldly possessions cannot bring you long-lasting happiness, viewing Saturnine's photos made me itch.

I am looking forward to learning about the meet and the attendees' take on the equipment they heard. So let's hear it from you guys.

 

[saturnine]

More pics:

(had to add light, pic was too dark!)

Impressions:

Dynahi- Amazing amp. Had better extension and general smoothness than my PPA.

RS-1- Kinda disappointing to me, highs were a bit too much and there wasnt enough bass.

325i- First pair died on me! The right side had no bass, and they sounded horrible. Drew broke out a new pair, and they were much, much better. Still a bit "bright", but the bass was solid and punchy.

They were quite heavy IMO. Drew said that he plans on stripping some of the metal off to make them lighter.

SA5000- The highlight of the day for me. Absoluely amazing soundstage, very realistic and detailed sound.

Woo3- Very smooth and tube like. A bit too smooth for my tastes, but did sound very detailed and would be perfect with certain classical/jazz.

Antique Sound amp- Amazing amp for the price! Very punchy and fun sounding!

The Ipod amp- Very nice amp, would definately buy one if there was one for the Dell DJ players.

Apple Ipod- My first time actually seeing one up close (yeah, I dont get out much

) It was one amazing looking dap, but the scroll wheel would definately take some getting used to IMO. The Dell DJ's scroll wheel is much easier to use IMO.

PPX- I too noticed that something wasnt right. Maybe it wasnt burned in or something

It did look very nice though.

Blue Dragon V2 Senn cable- Amazing looking and sounding cable. I didnt spend a whole lot of time with it, but it really opened the HD650 up, removing the "veil" and increasing bass quality. But without boosting the treble like the Zu Mobius.

Someone left a Patricia Barber cd in my drive. PM me, and I'll ship it out to you.

 

[dhwilkin]

Nice meeting everyone, everybody was very cool and fun to talk w/. Thanks to Drew for opening his house for the session. I didn't end up doing as much critical listening as I thought I would, due to time constraints and being more curious about other people's systems. Guess I'll make up for that when we have the combined Headroom meet in a bit. For now, here are my brief impressions:

Music Hall cdp + Woo Audio tube amp: This system was just enjoyable to listen to music on, which is a very important attribute that too many people forget about. Good balance w/ that nice tube warmth, w/o sacrificing much resolution. If I ever decide to get a relatively cheap tube amp, the Woo will be high on my list.

Grado RS-1: I'm not a big fan of most Grado headphones, due to the ergonomics and limited soundstage. But, the RS-1 are probably my favorite of the line-up, due to that extra warmth they bring through, vocals sounded pretty good here.

Senn 650 (stock cable): Unfortunately, I only got a chance to listen to these off the PPX, and after Tom's comments on something seeming off w/ the PPX, I'm going to have to agree w/ him. So, I'll hold off on my comments here until after the Headroom meet.

Sony SA5000: I was looking forward to hearing what these guys could do, my first time listening to them. I wasn't disappointed, but I also wasn't quite blown away, either. They reminded me of a more refined and balanced CD3000: Good detail, better integration of the different frequencies, wide soundstage. Vocals were not the most natural I've heard, though they were clear and still quite good. I think these had the stock cable, I would be interested in hearing them w/ one of Drew's cables.

I didn't have a chance to compare the Gilmore and my Max, unfortunately, will definitely do it at the next meet. I didn't get to hear any of Vic's equipment, ran out of time and I'm already familiar w/ the MG Head from previously owning one (enjoyable and versatile amp, as long as you don't get a hummer).

Good stuff, guys, hope to see y'all at the Headroom meet!

 

[vrao81]

Hey everyone I really enjoyed this meet, there were a number of interesting pieces of gear present. Whats interesting is that it was the low priced stuff that impressed me, rather than the high priced gear. I guess I'm still on the student budget mentality.

I got to hear the HD650's again. I've been thinking about upgrading to these but after hearing them on my system and comparing with my HD580 I don't think its really worth the upgrade (if you can even call them an upgrade). With the stock cable the HD650 sounds thicker and more veiled than the 580, especially in the lower midrange. The HD580 just sounds more livelier while sounding just as musical. I know the HD650 would benefit from a cable upgrade and an improved amp and source but to me its just not worth it.

I also listened to the Dynahi and the PPX. I liked the PPX better since I'm mostly a tube guy. The Dynahi is an interesting piece but its way out of my price range anyway. I've even forgotten what the Dynahi sounds like.
I would have loved to listen to the Woo but didn't get a chance.
The Headroom Max with Nuvista cd player was a nice setup. I've never heard a Headroom amp before so this was a new experience. I thought the setup sounded a little bright but with a nice warm midrange. Detail and soundstage were very good. Its a bit pricey for what you get though.

I am glad several folks liked my MG Head. Its really a nice amp. I originally owned one then sold it to try some solid state amps...big mistake! After 1 year of trying amps I went back to the good ol' Head. It really has a nice lush sound that you can listen to for hours without fatigue. It only cost me $250 so I think its a good deal.

The gear that really impressed me were the IPOD/Dell MP3 player and the Shellbrook pimeta and super mini moy amps. I'd never used an IPOD before and I really want to get one now. Its pretty easy to use and I could play with that thing all day. Plus it actually sounds pretty good when matched with the mini moy which drives the HD580. And the Pimeta is a great deal, I was surprised at the sound you can get from this thing. Its perfect for a portable/transportable setup and sounds great with the HD580...I want to get one of these also.
The last piece was the Grado RS-1. I listened to these for just a few minutes. Still the classic Grado sound, which I'm not a really a big fan of. And there's that comfort issue to deal with too.

This was a nice meet and I appreciate Drew hosting for us. Hopefully I'll see you all at the Headroom meet next month!

BTW my name is spelled ViK

 

[drubrew]

Fun was had by all... Here are some pics:

Woo and Music Hall cd25

MG Head and Onix cd player

Single Power PPX
Gilmore Dynahi
Onkyo DVSP1000
Headroom Max
Music Fidelity Nu Vista cd Player

Shelbrook Labs
Super Mini Moy
SimplA1
Ipod 3rd gen with Blue Dragon Pocket Dock

I have gotten a ton of emails about the SimplA1, so let me tell you about it. It runs $150 and is primarily made for the Ipod. And based on the comparisons I made at the meet I am now going to carry it. It is built to hug the ipod like this:

The Pocket Dock that is attached is a little misleading as you CAN NOT use one with it. It has no volume control. It uses the Headphone output from the Ipod and you use the ipod volume control. Dont let that push you away. As it sounded better than all other Mini amps at the meet. I have asked Simple Acoustics to make a volume control version to take advantage of the cleaner line out and the use of a Pocket dock. I am going to build a maxxed out Pimetta to compair this unit to. So stay tuned.
From the Designer:
The A1 uses a Burr-Brown OPA2134 opamp in a non-inverting configuration with gain set to 11 by default. We use film input caps and 1% precision dale-vishay metal film resistors. The PCB has four layers with a layer for each channel, a power plane, and a ground plane. The A1 includes no volume control. Volume level is controlled from the iPod. There is no EQ circuitry. The battery can be replaced by us for a nominal fee. It use a lithium-ion battery which will allow 500 charge-discharge cycles.

I'm sorry to hear that some of you had issues with the PPX. I assure you there must have been a bad cable in the mix. I have been listening to it for the last 2 days and really like it. I may still have it for the Headroom meet so we can try it again. I wish someone would have said something to me. I didn't listen to it as, I knew I would have it a while.

More too come......

 

[purk]

Look like a fun meet guys!! I would love to hear more impression.



Vik,
How do you like your new source?


Drew,
What's your favorite amp, headphone, combo of the meet?

 

[dhwilkin]

Heh, sorry about the name misspelling, Vik. I know the feeling, nearly everybody misspells my last name. Yeah, I agree my setup won't win any "value of the year" awards, that whole law of diminishing returns sets in very quickly in the headphone world. The other systems there were better values. For best value, just get an iPod or other portable, maybe a mini-amp or SR-71, and your choice of headphones, and be done w/ it. W/ my system, that extra 5-20% performance I get (depending on who you ask) is somewhat subtle and may be in areas not everybody cares about as much as I do about, but to me it's well worth it. I'm actually surprised you didn't dislike my system, I know it sounds quite different than the warmer tubes on the Head and Woo amps. I did bring the copper cables I was using previously before the current silver cables, but forgot to mention it, I'm pretty sure you would've liked it better w/ those copper cables in place.

Also, I briefly listened to a pair of Senns (I guess 650s, don't remember) w/ the Dell mp3 player. Fun sound, would be great for times when you're not listening critically or reading or whatever.
Quote:

drubrew said... I'm sorry to hear that some of you had issues with the PPX.

Odd thing here is, the first time I listened to it using the RS-1, it sounded pretty good. A little later, I came back and tried it w/ the 650s, and then it just did not sound right. It was weird, I thought it was a bad pair of 650s at the time, but the comments earlier in the thread made me reconsider maybe something had gotten messed up w/ the PPX later on.

Oh, and Drew, do not anger the mighty Max by calling it a Cosmic!

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by drubrew I have gotten a ton of emails about the SimplA1, so let me tell you about it. It has no volume control. It uses the Headphone output from the Ipod and you use the ipod volume control. Dont let that push you away. As it sounded better than all other pieces at the meet. I have asked Simple Acoustics to make a volume control version to take advantage of the cleaner line out and the use of a Pocket dock. I am going to build a maxxed out Pimetta to compair this unit to. So stay tuned.

Better than the other portable amps or better than all the amps?

 

[saturnine]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox Better than the other portable amps or better than all the amps?

Better than any of the portable amps* I've heard hooked up to my Dell dj.

*I've heard a battery powered cmoy, and pimeta.

 

[drubrew]

Yes sorry the other mini amps is what I meant. It was late when I posted. I will add more to my post once I get a free second.

My Favorite amp was the Dynahi for sure. But it was not a fair comparrison based on the fact it cost more than anything else there. Anyway I will touch on all of this later.

 

[vrao81]

Hey Purk! The Onix cd player is a really nice player. Its the best cd player I've owned. Its very sweet, analog, highly musical sounding. I can listen for hours without fatigue. It really makes me wonder how much better digital can get?! This is definitely one piece of gear I will keep for a long time.

 

[Jon L]

Nice pictures, guys. But nobody mentioned anything about those great-looking speakers in the background! Looks like some custom builds that somebody spent a lot of time and effort on. Anyone listened to'em? Reminds me so much of my own custom speakers...

http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/m...view_photo.php

 

[drubrew]

Those speakers were designed and built by me.

Unfortunately at the time of the meet the system was getting some equipment changes so nothing was hooked up. They are incredible and will be receiving a new amp shortly to run them. Also waiting on my new DEQX EQ/crossover. Next meet they will be up and running. Some info can be found under the Projects and Prototypes page.