[classe]

Yes this was my first posting because a friend of mine who knows i've tried P.W.B. told me there was a discussion on this forum.
Untill a few days ago i did not know that Head-Fi exists.
But now i know, so i will visit Head-Fi everyday.
The test with my father: he could choose 3 discs. All different music.
First disc.
First he listen to the 'original' cd.
Then i send him away to another room/kitchen.
Step 2: i placed foil on the disc. He listen again.
He said that the second time it has more detail etc.

Second disc.
First he listened to the original.
Step 2 i did NOT place foil on the disc.
I was hoping he would say that the second was better. But NO he said is was the same as last time (original).

Third disc.
I send him again to another room.
I placed the foil and let him listen.
Then for the last time i send him away.
Now i let him listen to the disc without the foil.
And he said the first time he heard the disc it was better.

So i thought this was a good blind-test.
It takes some time but the results are real.
He listened on a
Cd-player Denon 1650
Amp. Denon pma 2000
Interconnect Cardas Golden Ref.
Speakercable Monster Z1
Speaker Translator impact 30. (Dutch)

Maybe you will hear more difference on a more expensive set-up.
In my set-up it works.
With kind regards Bernhard.

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by radrd BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! You're lucky I'm busy right now. Maybe if this thread is still alive sometime this weekend I'll sit down type out some more crap for you to get pissed off about. Maybe I'll actually take your advice and get out a Thesaurus. As is frequently the case, Eric is right. If you ignore me, I'll probably get bored and go away. Maybe.

Belt up!

 

[zotjen]

When this whole thread got started I also requested a free sample of rainbow foil. Although I've had it for a couple of weeks, I only really had a chance to experiment with it the past couple of days. I'll start out by saying that I'm the kind of person who has an open mind and is at least willing to give people the benefit of the doubt. I won't easily dismiss an idea simply because it sounds too far fetched. I will admit that the concept of putting a little piece of foil on a CD to improve the sound does seem a little bit out there, but I had nothing to lose by trying it myself.

I chose two CD's to test it out - Carlo Bergonzi Sings Giuseppe Verdi and Praga Khan Mixed Up. I'll admit these are probably not the best CD's to test with but they are the only ones I have duplicates of. I started with the Bergonzi CDs, placing a piece of foil on one. I then put both CDs label side down and shuffled them around. I selected one making sure I didn't see the label, listened to one track, and then did the same with the other disc listening to the same track. I then made my decision as to which one had the foil and checked to see if I was correct. Once I had my answer I shuffled the CDs again and listened to another track. I did this for three tracks with the Bergonzi CDs. I then followed the same procedure for the Praga Khan CDs listening to five different tracks.

In all eight tests, I correctly identified which CD had the foil on it. I hardly consider myself an audiophile so I was quite surprised with the results. I will admit that three out of the eight times were merely a guess, but I did somehow manage to guess right. Although there wasn't a huge difference, I did notice slightly more detail here and there. Vocals were also a tiny bit clearer and bass had a little more punch.

To verfiy that it wasn't simply a matter of one CD sounding better than the other, I switched the foil on the Praga Khan CD and tested using the same procedure, listening to three tracks. Again, I identified the CD with the foil all three times although one was more of a guess.

Although I also do believe in the power of suggestion, I don't feel it was in play here. At no point did I know whether or not the CD I was listening to had the foil on it. I didn't know which CD was supposed to sound better. This is important for me at least because prior to receiving my sample of foil, I did try the experiment listed on Peter Belt's website involving placing photographs in the freezer. I must say that when I tried this, as much as I was hoping there would be, I heard no discernible difference in sound even though I knew when the music should have sounded better. Even where the power of suggestion could have come into play, for me it didn't.

I suppose it's possible for people who immediately dismiss the concept of rainbow foil before even trying it not to hear any difference when they do try it simply because they don't want to hear it. The same people could also argue that I heard a difference because I wanted to, however that does not explain how I was able to correctly pick the CD with the foil eleven times out of eleven when I didn't know which one had it. From a statistical standpoint I suppose it's possible, but what are the chances? Try flipping a coin eleven times in a row and see if you get heads every time.

That said, I will admit that for me, I don't think that the minor improvement in sound justifies the cost of the foil. This should in no way imply that the foil is not beneficial. In my view the product definitely works. I just did not get enough out of it to warrant its expense. You wouldn't by a new amp if didn't provide a substantial enough improvement in sound, would you?

I still intend to do more testing with the foil, placing it on different components, etc. I also plan on trying it out with my brother, to see if he can tell a difference.

Tom

 

[tomek]

Pinkie, I for one have believed and supported you this entire time. I have my own rainbow foil that I ordered from Peter Belt and I read many of the articles about it, mostly written by open minded skeptics that gave it a try and were shocked with the results.

Anyways, it's very entertaining to see guys with 400 dollar interconnects calling you an idiot for using a free tweak.

Like mysticism is so much worse than pseudoscience!

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomek I have my own rainbow foil that I ordered from Peter Belt and I read many of the articles about it, mostly written by open minded skeptics that gave it a try and were shocked with the results.

Did your "free" sample make your music sound any better?


Pinkie.

 

[eric343]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zotjen I was able to correctly pick the CD with the foil eleven times out of eleven when I didn't know which one had it. From a statistical standpoint I suppose it's possible, but what are the chances? Try flipping a coin eleven times in a row and see if you get heads every time.

This is very interesting, especially since the tests you performed were almost identical to mine. The only difference is that my tests were performed using CD-R copies of the same CD, instead of original (duplicate) CDs.

 

[myself, aka me]

Does something of equal weight also cause the same effect? What if you put it on the clear bit on the inside of the CD rather than the outside edge?

As for the coin, I got 7 heads from 11 tosses, and my music still sounds the same.

 

[eric343]

OK, if my math is right, the odds of getting 11 out of 11 tosses is 0.5^11, or 5 in 10,000. By that same measure, 7 in a row is 8 in 1000... bonus points to anyone who can get the odds of 7 out of 11, not necessarily in a row

 

[John Reeves]

Hi,

I've been reading this post and I am sure I will be flamed for my response but what the hell. First of all I have not tried the "magic" foil and don't intend to, since I consider it an insult to my inteligence that sticking foil on something unrelated to the sound system improves the sound. This falls in line with the sort of crap such as pyramids to sharpen a razor blade, magic crystals which heal you, and crystal ball gazing.

I am open minded when there is a chance that sound can be improved by tweaks, and have tried loads over the years. Yes, turntable stands make a difference, yes speaker stands and positioning make a difference, yes damping of components can make a difference, but come on, sticking a bit of foil on something improves the sound -you've got to be kidding.

However, I am willing to be convinced and even spend money if anyone can give a scientific explanation as to why this is supposed to work.

I have to go now, my personal astrologer has arrived.

 

[tortie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Reeves However, I am willing to be convinced and even spend money if anyone can give a scientific explanation as to why this is supposed to work.

Here's a link to Peter Belt's site:

http://www.belt.demon.co.uk/product/...pwbdevice.html

 

[ipodstudio]

Darn, is this thread still going??

Well, with 11,000 views at least the entire community now knows about Rainbow Foil..

 

[John Reeves]

Dear Tortie,

Thanks for the link. I read the contents with amazement. What a load of pseudo scientific mumbo jumbo. If anything, this has put me off even more. Energy fields sounds like ectoplasm - crap. How are these measured? Talk about new age mysticism!! I checked my Harry Potter spell book and there is no mention of energy fields so they can't exist - right?

 

[tomek]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PinkFloyd Did your "free" sample make your music sound any better? Pinkie.

I haven't done any direct comparisons. I'm just getting to know my system still and want to give it some more time to develop a 'longer term memory' of how it sounds.

Then I plan on doing what you did. Putting it on one copy, then the other. I'm not expecting much but I'm keeping an open mind. I've had a lot of trouble telling the difference between the 'well established' tweaks such as cables, cd mats.

I do wish that people would put aside their arrogant, snobbish attitudes for just one minute and consider the possiblity that factors affecting our enjoyment of the music do extend beyond only engineering/tech factors. It takes only a very brief reflection to realize that the enjoyment of your music varies from day to day while the electrical/mechanical reproductive elements have stayed the same. There's something to that so I think that posterity will show that Belt was onto something, even if his exact methods may not be perfect.

I'm currently reading a nice toilet type book called '100 Greatest Scientists of History'. Each two page spread is dedicated to a great scientist of our past, going back to ancient Greece up to present times. It's quite amazing how many of them died in either shame or anonymity only to be recognized as geniuses much later. Often, they were ridiculed by their peers and other great thinkers of their time.

It just goes to show, as I've had the misfortune and dissapointment to discover, that intelligence doesn't necessarily mean open mindedness. I myself have been quite shocked at people's reaction to this, many of them dismissing it without taking the opportunity to even try a FREE sample. Then they're quite content to shell out a load of cash for Bybee filters, cd mats and cables with secret esoteric geometries.

oh well!

I'll keep you posted Pinkie when I get around to trying the foil.

 

[rodbac]

Man, I check back in for some giggles and the fourth post I read gets my goat- I'm pathetic...:

Quote:

I do wish that people would put aside their arrogant, snobbish attitudes for just one minute and consider the possiblity that factors affecting our enjoyment of the music do extend beyond only engineering/tech factors. It takes only a very brief reflection to realize that the enjoyment of your music varies from day to day while the electrical/mechanical reproductive elements have stayed the same.

Tomek, here's the thing: for us to accept that the tin foil has made a difference, we would also have to accept that the color of your socks might have also had something to do with it (for reasons I'll give you below), so then where are we left? IOW, by claiming that it does nothing to the music itself, but only to your perception, you're explaining nothing that your socks couldn't also explain. It's pointless to post your "impressions" as if they have any meaning to anybody but yourself.

FIRST PROBLEM: It seems some here want to be able to claim their opinions are above reproach because the whole thing is in their head (it was your perception and therefore can't be dismissed), yet take offense to being told that the foil (or whatever) did absolutely nothing to the music (that it was all in their head)! If you think of it being in your head (it was all your perception) as a positive, so be it, but don't get all indignant when others rightfully point out that it means nothing to anybody else because it was all in your head.

Quote:

I'm currently reading a nice toilet type book called '100 Greatest Scientists of History'. Each two page spread is dedicated to a great scientist of our past, going back to ancient Greece up to present times. It's quite amazing how many of them died in either shame or anonymity only to be recognized as geniuses much later. Often, they were ridiculed by their peers and other great thinkers of their time.

SECOND PROBLEM: Digital audio is NOT quantum theory, some mysterious field where we're only beginning to understand the mechanisms- it's quite basic and very well understood, ie. we're not guessing how this stuff works!

The laser that reads the 1s and 0s on the CD can't see the foil, and it doesn't read atmospheric light inside the chamber. It is impossible for it to have any effect whatsoever on the sound, unless it's throwing off the balance of the CD causing it to not read at all. Further, even if the foil was able to be somehow read by the laser, do you think the spectral lines would somehow communicate something intelligible to the electronics, "opening up the soundstage"?

Quote:

It just goes to show, as I've had the misfortune and dissapointment to discover, that intelligence doesn't necessarily mean open mindedness.

Read up on the difference between "open minded" and "gullible", and think hard how it might apply to something like this.

Next, read up on how CD players work.

Then, go take a class in one of the following subjects at your local JC: critical thinking, beginning philosophy, or forensics, and maybe even a couple low-level science courses so the purpose and rationale behind the scientific method will be explained to you (and you won't think those who insist on it being at least loosely applied are just doing so to be a-holes).

Quote:

I'll keep you posted Pinkie when I get around to trying the foil.

Don't bother- Pinkie was just fcking with you.

 

[tortie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Reeves Dear Tortie, Thanks for the link. I read the contents with amazement. What a load of pseudo scientific mumbo jumbo. If anything, this has put me off even more. Energy fields sounds like ectoplasm - crap. How are these measured? Talk about new age mysticism!! I checked my Harry Potter spell book and there is no mention of energy fields so they can't exist - right?

LOL

You will have to wait for the sixth book to find out for sure