RAAL 1995 Immanis
Sep 10, 2024 at 9:26 AM Post #2,446 of 2,764
I believe it will sound even better through the 8 ohm interface (off its speakers taps).
I guess that what was suggested when I made the purchase. Probably because AIC-10 is considered a Headphone amp. But when production increases I will look at getting the 8Ohm when ordering the Immanis. Then test it out. Because I probably won’t need the CA-1A anymore with the Immanis.
 
Sep 10, 2024 at 9:27 AM Post #2,447 of 2,764
IIRC correctly (and I hope I'm not misquoting aleks here,) the 8ohm interface is recommended for lower power speaker amps (things like SET tube amps) whilst if you are using a powerful solid state speaker amp the standard 32 ohm interface is recommended. For most users, the 32ohm will be the correct choice, either for use with a standard headphone amp, or a powerful solid state (and some tube, depending on power output) speaker amp. The 8ohm would be more inline with low power set speaker amps, or specific tube speaker amps that much prefer driving and are safer with an 8ohm load.
I would agree that the 32 ohm interface is probably the correct choice for the majority of users. It's probably not the correct choice if one is using a speaker amp, no matter the rated power, that wasn't designed to drive 32 ohm loads. It's also not the right choice if one is using a speaker amp that doesn't deliver sufficient power into 32 ohms to drive Immanis to the desired volume level with good sonics (which seems unlikely).

If Aleks sees the situation differently, I'm sure he'll chime in.
 
Sep 10, 2024 at 11:47 AM Post #2,448 of 2,764
Well I just got of the phone with Danny. He said that for the Riviera AIC-10. He feels the sweet spot is at 16Ohms for the this use case. It’s based on the distortion levels between the 8 and 16Ohm loads. You do loose some power to the headphones but still have more then enough headroom. He said for the Imannis he would suggest I still use 16Ohms from speaker taps on the Riviera also.
 
Sep 10, 2024 at 12:33 PM Post #2,449 of 2,764
FWIW, I originally thought that's what I wanted as well. When I got my demo Immanis/Magna, Danny sent both the TI-1b and the standard mushroom stand. I started with the TI-1b (set to 32 ohms), and after a few hours was thinking the Immanis wasn't quite as much of a delta from Susvara as I was expecting based off memories of my CanJam audition. On a whim, I switched to the mushroom stand. The bass got noticeably fuller, and the overall feel of the Immanis became more complete and satisfying. The next day, I went back to the TI-1b, and the bass again sounded leaner. I switched to 16 ohms, and couldn't hear any difference from the 32 ohm setting. It turned out I preferred the logistics of cable routing with the mushroom stand as well, so going with that was a no-brainer. I'm pretty sure @Aleksandar R. went on record saying the transformers were identical between the TI-1b and mushroom stand, but they sounded different to me (non-blind test).
Yeah, he did say they're the same and that's why I just kept my TI-1b. Not sure why you're hearing differences. I notice a large difference in bass between my Immanis and Susvara on the TI-1b. Immanis has the best bass of any headphone I've heard imo.
 
Sep 10, 2024 at 2:40 PM Post #2,450 of 2,764
Wanting to trade : sus unveiled + cash for immanis :L3000: :sunglasses:

Hit me up if your serious.
 
Sep 10, 2024 at 10:02 PM Post #2,452 of 2,764
Sep 11, 2024 at 12:51 AM Post #2,453 of 2,764
I would agree that the 32 ohm interface is probably the correct choice for the majority of users. It's probably not the correct choice if one is using a speaker amp, no matter the rated power, that wasn't designed to drive 32 ohm loads. It's also not the right choice if one is using a speaker amp that doesn't deliver sufficient power into 32 ohms to drive Immanis to the desired volume level with good sonics (which seems unlikely).

If Aleks sees the situation differently, I'm sure he'll chime in.
This is what I wrote on the subject back in March:

Regarding the amp's behavior with different load, that could be very significant part, depending on the amp.

HSA driving headphones direct or via the Interface, as I sometimes do at Shows, is a very specific case of showing what changes in amplifier behavior with extremely different load.
HSA-1a/b/c is loaded with 1 Ohm when driving headphones directly (headphones, cable and internal ballast resistor).
In that case, higher order distortion harmonics are more pronounced than in the case of plugging a 32 Ohms load provided by the Interface.
The amp itself becomes more benign in high-order distortion products and mellows down significantly.
No surprise, given that the current it needs to swing is reduced ~10 times.
The Transformer Interface isn't really "rounding" the sound, but the amp itself behaves differently with lower load. (Higher impedance is lower load)

A Power J-FET Single Ended amp like Firstwatt J2 is very sensitive to load and it sound quite different if loaded with 8 Ohms or 32 Ohms. Distortion products do not change in order (it has nothing over 5th harmonic in any case), but the quantity of distortion changes a lot. Enough so that with 32 Ohms, it sounds like a regular solid-state amp with no specific character and quite neutral, while with 8 Ohm load, it sound like a full-bodied Single Ended amp, as the level of 2nd harmonic has risen for ~15dB.

Large speaker amps that have multiple output transistors with total bias of 0.5A per bank, pretty much never leave Class-A when on 32 Ohm load and asked to deliver only 2-3 Watts. They will either not change the sound at all, or become more refined.

Amps with very tight control of distortion, like Benchmark AHB2 that feature error correction circuitry instead of a classic negative feedback loop, or "compound" amps with output section inside the feedback loop of input op-amp, don't really care.
You can plug in a resistor 2 Ohm load in series to headphones, or a 4-32 Ohms Transformer Interface, it will sound the same. It'll only clip sooner with 2 Ohm load.

Basically, Transformer Interfaces are very transparent and will easily transfer the behavior of the amp. However, there are large differences of how the amp itself will behave when loaded outside its expected load.

In general, large speaker amps will sound pretty much the same or smoother at 32 Ohms, headphone amps should be loaded with 32 Ohms and SET's should be loaded with 8 Ohms. That way you will make sure that the amp hasn't lost it's character and the Interface will just reflect that to headphones.
 
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Sep 11, 2024 at 1:45 AM Post #2,455 of 2,764
@Aleksandar R.

What about SET headphone amps? Like woo wa23 and Felik Envy. Should they be using 32ohm or 8ohm?
 
Sep 11, 2024 at 3:40 AM Post #2,456 of 2,764
@Aleksandar R.

What about SET headphone amps? Like woo wa23 and Felik Envy. Should they be using 32ohm or 8ohm?
They’re headphone amps and therefore work best with 32Ohms. It’s the SET speaker amps that work better with the 8Ohm load. Says he who has almost zero technical competence. I’m just repeating the answer that Alex previously gave to this question. At World of Headphones in Heidelberg where Alex showed Magna and Immanis for the first time the demo set-up was Feliks Envy - 32Ohm interface - Magna/Immanis.
 
Sep 11, 2024 at 9:37 AM Post #2,460 of 2,764
There is always something better
I hear you and I'm always leaning into that direction, but...

You're generally right when it comes to simple systems, like connectors, for example.
Connectors have minute parasitic capacitance and inductance, insignificant in comparison with the cable they are terminating that you can always go in any direction you want, use better alloys, plating, shapes, whatever.

With complex systems, improvements in one aspect don't come without diminishing performance in some other aspect.
That comes from the established envelope for the system usage.
A good example is racing.
An LMP can be quicker than F1, but only if it goes outside the rules for LMP class, as shown with Porsche 919 Hybrid, while F1 stays withing it's envelope of rules.

So, the envelope of "rules" we're dealing in headphones are pretty wide open and not very strict, but one stands out as the most important:

-Striving for more sensitivity, in order to use less power.

Now, there's a saying that "every system's performance approaches perfection if its efficiency factor approaches zero".

So, if you allow me to drop the sensitivity of the Interface-cable-ribbon system by 10dB, you will have a much higher bandwidth and perhaps with that, marginally better highs.
That would require 10x higher power to drive the headphones, so it doesn't come for free, as we're adding complexity (and expense) on a higher powered amp.
If that amp would have to be an SET, expect 10x higher price for 10x the power, or deal with the lower SPL.

Now, within the envelope I have set for my product, there is no way to engineer a better transformer, I can assure you of that.
It started with the cable design that pushed the limits in what is physically possible for reduction of parasitic inductance, then designing a transformer for that.

I had no pre-constrains when I designed it, aside from cable parameters that were pushed to the limit, and things were done the way they had to be done.
If it needed to be bigger, it would have been, if it needed to be a C-core with dual bobbins, it would have been, if it needed to have a gapped core, it would have it, but it isn't all that because those actions are not better for bandwidth when you add pros and cons for each of those features. As in all complex systems, you win on one end and loose on the other.

It ended up to be a toroidal core (for windings that cover the whole core, minimizing the parasitic inductance), annealed (for having higher initial permeability, reacting better to low level signal), no gap (for reducing number of turns which reduces resistive losses as well as parasitic inductance), special terminating plate that parallels the secondary windings (without adding parasitic inductance).

Now, we audiophiles like to view things as we like to view races. There has to be a winner, but...2 seconds faster in a 90 minute race of 300 kilometer distance?
That is essentially the same performance. Only 0.037% better, which means nothing, really, it just makes a winner or looser crossing the line.
Finishing a full lap behind is just 1-1.5% worse, (but it costs $100M less for a season).

So, yes, things could be done to improve on the existing transformer, but it would require obtaining custom nanocrystalline cores and Silver wire windings.
And I'm actually thinking about doing that lately, but the price would be really, really high in retail, so I'm keeping that on a back burner for now.

The margin of quality with our existing transformers is almost fully saturated, so it's very hard (expensive) to go up from here.
 
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