RA-1 clone.. who can make me one, please
Dec 18, 2003 at 5:00 AM Post #106 of 116
No Rick, I couldn't care less about the price of the op-amp, if it sounded good. I sold my RA-1 before I knew what was inside.

I care that they're passing off a mediocre product as "high-end" using cheesy marketing techniques. It's an insult to all of the real engineers around here (Meier, Gilmore, Tangent, PPL, AOS, etc.) to claim that this is a "reference" amplifier. It trivializes their efforts and their skills. We'd be unimpressed if any one of them took the simplest possible op-amp circuit, put it in a solid marble or jade box, and claimed it was the new reference amp, without providing measurements or independent reviews of its sound to back up the claim. To allow Grado to get away with something that we would not accept from any one of them trivializes the efforts of legitimate engineers. Sadly this is all too common these days.
 
Dec 18, 2003 at 5:02 AM Post #107 of 116
Quote:

Originally posted by Sovkiller
People had bashed the Creek, here, even there is thread by Pink Floyd upgrading it, same as X-Can, and is a similar case, just that at a more humble price, BTW THE HALF, and both are imported.....


The Creek is the last time I'll be fooled by an audiophile brand name. It sounded... eh, grainy and warm, pleasant, uncontrolled bass... like the jack on a mid-fi receiver. For the $100 I paid (used) I think it was overpriced, $69.95 would have been more reflective of Creek OBH-11 SQ...
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Quote:

Originally posted by rickcr42
The old saying that if you do not have anything nice to say say nothing at all is a wise one


It's wise advice if you're a child, and a parent is telling it to you (otherwise you might get a spanking). "Niceness" is in the eye of the beholder (ear of the be-listener). I fail to see how "slamming" a product with logical, reasonable arguments is harming anybody, unless someone is (imo foolishly) identifying their sense of self-esteem with the products they own. If so, it's really their problem and nobody else's.
 
Dec 18, 2003 at 5:08 AM Post #108 of 116
Sorry Rick, I was posting here simply becasue I feel the need of helping Adam, the original starter, to find some parts for his project, as some Solen caps, suddently I don't know why, the thread get upside down, not my fault at all, I was not first in messing it, but as ususal, and it seems ot be a habit here, that everybody takes the problems with me personally, I'm used to that, don't worry.....

About the extension, yes, I made one, much better than this one, for the half of the price, so why we have to pay 30.00 for a regular cable and two mediocre jacks and plugs.....When Canare starquad sounds better and Neutrik jacks and plugs are better, and in half and hour you have a better extension for less.....

"......The old saying that if you do not have anything nice to say say nothing at all is a wise one....."

What about to say simply the truth and what is wrong also, it should be a much better world, if all the people here said the truth about many things, things will go better and better, for sure.....
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Dec 18, 2003 at 5:16 AM Post #109 of 116
Quote:

Originally posted by Sovkiller
Sorry Rick, I was posting here simply becasue I feel the need of helping Adam, the original starter, to find some parts for his project, as some Solen caps, suddently I don't know why, the thread get upside down,


It hardly matters anymore, Adam decided to pass on the RA-1 clone for now (so I read in an earlier post). I think that was the point it became a "discussion thread" on the RA-1 instead... not a thread crapping, since the original reason for the thread existing was over with at that point. It could have ended, but imo it doesn't hurt to chat about closely related topics when that happens.
 
Dec 18, 2003 at 5:18 AM Post #110 of 116
Quote:

Originally posted by Wodgy
I'm with Fewtch here. The RA-1 is just another example of something that's become unfortunately all-to-common: trivializing the role of engineers and product quality in favor of looks and marketing hype. No serious engineer would consider the RA-1 a "reference amplifier" -- not from looking at the power supply schematic and not from listening to it. (I used to own one -- the bass was slow and distant, with virtually no slam, and the highs were occasionally grainy. Not to mention, they don't even advertise any of the product's measurements (THD, IMD, etc.), a very good sign that they're probably mediocre.) Grado most likely felt that by putting it in an expensive looking box, they could pass it off as a high-end product. Obviously they were right, and the market does bear the price. Clearly, they're great businessmen and shrewd product marketers, but when people favor good looks over solid, quality engineering, it's just another nail in the coffin of the American engineer.


As an engineering student I completely agree. I'd estimate 90% of the cost involved in making the RA-1 goes into the enclosure, which seems to have more effect on some peoples ears than the electronics inside. No offense to anybody who likes it, but I really think it's more of a "It's from Grado, it looks sexy, it must mesh well with their products". I love my SR-80s but in my experience with the RA-1 I infinitely preferred my $100 PIMETA. The volume control tracked better, there was less sibilance on the highs, and bass seemed much more coherent. Everything seemed less immediate on the RA-1.
 
Dec 18, 2003 at 6:01 AM Post #111 of 116
Quote:

About the extension, yes, I made one, much better than this one, for the half of the price, so why we have to pay 30.00 for a regular cable and two mediocre jacks and plugs.....When Canare starquad sounds better and Neutrik jacks and plugs are better, and in half and hour you have a better extension for less.....


all cool , and yes most of us here can build a project that if not a straight out clear winner can compete with a lot of what is offered comercially-why DIY is cool

But we pick each others brains,let the 'group' try various methods of getting to a destination and if something is not quite up to expectations it is nothing.We start again and bounce the results off the others going along for the ride

But this process is something that ONLY DIY is capable of when your livelyhodd,whether you pay the bills or lay people off is concerned

R$D is an on going process but while you "tinker" a bread and butter product must be keeping the doors open

I am not saying Grado is hurting , just that priorities differ when a hobby is compared to what pays (or not in some cases) the bills

Some exeptional products have gone away not because they were poorly executed but simply because for one reason or another that product failed to find a large enough market share to allow the person with the original design to keep the doors open

the family has to eat and bills need to be paid or bad things happen

The way a thing looks DOES impact on how it sounds

It is a mental trick that i can not fully explain and it is real

The good looking product will win every time and companies KNOW this !

They would be foolish not to and foolish not to take advantage of that weakness

No matter how good something sounds it will not sell if it is butt ugly !

But take that same product and wrap it in some serious chassis work ,throw on some tiffany jacks and a stepped attenuator and then bang the price up by a multiple of three and the hi end magazines will go wild !

as will most audiophiles

Now gut it and place a mediocre design inside the same wrapper and what happens ?

People will FIND A REASON to like it !

No way something that looks so good and uses such high quality parts can be bad sounding !

Just not possible.

so the product WILL sell and there will be some who will swear that this is the best sounding piece of gear they have heard to date and it will all be bullsh*t !

Happens all the time man

beleive me when i tell ya

So what to do ?

LISTEN !

Really listen and not just for ten minutes but for a time that allows you to KNOW a product

It always craks me up when someone purchases a new (fill in the blank) and immediately proceeds to modify it.

then they will tell everyone willing to listen how the device in question was 'transformed' into something that sounds sooo good that they had tears in thier eyes

HOW THE HELL WOULD THEY KNOW !!!!!!!!!!!!

by not living with the product and gewtting to know its personality how could someone say it "sonds" better ?

Because someone else "said" it does with these particular upgrades ?

Bullsh*t again

not all changes are a step forward

there are well trained engineers that get piad a whole lot of loot to design these products and get them to market . and the product MUST be reliuable !

if you want to go out of business fast then all you need do is market a product with a high return rate

see you later,don't let the door hit you in the........


You,me,all of us can choose to spend as much as we please to make an amp but what if you had to sell it as a means to survive ?

Hoew much is your time worth hourly ?

Do you have a shop or are you doing this on the kitchen table ?

And say you do the best you can with the best parts and design available

The end product will cost a small fortune !

Unless you are also going to do direct marketing , pack it yourself,do your own shipping and try to avoid paying state and federal taxes .

Even THEN the product cost will have to be high or you will need to keep the day job

why ?

Well first you will not sell enough high end gear to survive

How many $1K headphone amps do you think you could sell in a year ?

A bunch maybe but enough to be your entire salary for that year ?

Building for personal use has no real consequences other than "OK.I built it and and does not work.Now what?"

We can change out a part for something daily and it means nothing

A manufacturer does that and he is stuck with a crapload of useless parts taking up space and a bill for the newly ordered parts !

You can not have an efficient assembly process if every day you change the design

the workers would probably string you up or flat out quit !

So bottom line

I see no reason for anyone that wants to copy a product for personal use (and only that) not to do so . I myself have done it many times , including copying things directly from a patent.

But where i DO have issues is with those that never have commited themselves to producing a commercial product of any kind and with it the risk it involves-both financial and personal-in an honest attempt to create a product of some value to the end user simply because the jacks don't cost enough loot or the volume control is not this months flavor

or even worse-I just don't like the way it looks

The old don't judge a book by its cover is a wise saying (for example i look kinda meek
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) as is "buyer beware"

you can dress a pig in a nice dress but in the end it is still a pig

Rick

EDIT : deal with the spelling and keying errors (or don't,your choice
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).It is too damn late and i am in no mood to fix them at this time

Rick out
 
Mar 5, 2004 at 2:06 AM Post #115 of 116
Uh Oh. More Ra-1 clone stuff!
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