[DarkAngel]

Hey Gord,
That would be a bit too much hassle, but I can tell you from much listening experience with the Corda in my main rig, that I would favor the Cardas even more strongly vs Clou when used with Corda. I always use the 0 ohm output for Senn 600 with no crossfeed and sometimes wanted to tame the treble a bit with the Clou, therefore the Cardas with the slightly less energetic
treble would really match well, sounds like a real winner to me.

Also either the Clou or Cardas both easily outperform stock cable,
difference will be quite easy to hear, although $100-150 is not cheap investment you get your money's worth.

You may be able to buy some cheap used Clou cables here soon

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by DarkAngel Mac How about the 3D soundstage generated when combining the Cardas with Headroom crossfeed, I thought this was very impressive.

 

[Neruda]

Quote:

Originally posted by indihka I have to agree with Jude however, that the cardas is not as extended at the extreme treble as the clou or in my opinion the stock cable that arrived with the headphones.

Directly from Jude's HD600 cable review:

"Upon first listen, the first specific sonic thing I noticed about the Cardas cable’s sound was the increased treble extension. While I wasn’t previously of the opinion that the stock HD-600 was in any way treble deficient, I’d have a hard time going back to it now. The Cardas cable really manages to convey greater high frequency extension than any of the other cables, reaching in and scooping out treble information I had no idea my HD-600s were capable of delivering. And it’s good treble -- not hissy or splashy in any way. I will go so far as to say that the Cardas cable coupled with my HD-600s in my rig sound somewhat -- dare I say it? -- electrostatic in their ability to flesh out the most finite details."

 

[Beagle]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jon Beilin I take it that you find the clous more "punchy"?

I don't want to sound nasty or skeptical (even though I am), but can someone explain how a cable could be "punchy"? I do find differences in cables but they are just differences, not overall improvements. Cable A will do bass better than Cable B while cables C does neither as well but does midrange better. So when you have less of one thing, the rest sticks out more, giving the impression that it is "better" in that area. So when you change cables, you are so impressed by the "improvement" in one area that you overlook the weaknesses in other areas. I have played the cable game and over the long term I have found it simply leads to frustration and wasting of hours that could be spend listening to music instead of different "types" of wire that "blow each other away" depending on which way the wind is blowing or what kind of mood one is in. There were just too many instances where I was shocked at the initial "improvement" only to find out I was wrong and simply responding to apparent differences. Does anyone else feel this way or am I too cynical?

 

[Audio-Me]

That's what's been lurking through my mind as well. Do certain "good" traits of a cable register simply because they are lacking in other areas? Do people notice bad traits simply because the rest is neutral or "better"?

The reason I get so pissed when people say the HD600 are veiled is because they are not veiled! They just don't notice the detail because they're not used to such laid back sound. The details might be too soft and not loud enough for them to have register. However, with weaker source/amps, I agree that there are missing details, but they're not covering anything up, there's nothing there to cover up in the first place, it's not the headphones fault now is it? Some might argue, "my low impedence phones bring out details and nuances when driven by my pos source and weak ass amp!", no, they're just accenting only that's there, they don't uncover MORE detail than the HD600, they just let you be more aware of it. You know, throw it in your face. There's a big difference between viewing a concert vs participating in it, but what the hell is being covered up when you "view" it? Nothing, YOU just don't notice certain parts.

 

[DanG]

I think that I agree with you, Beagle... in any case, I've convinced myself a few months ago to believe what you just wrote.

In my review of the Bolder Cables vs. the DH Labs cable (which was my most-extensive review of cables ever to date) I tried to point out this aspect -- one part of the frequency range or another becomes emphasized more or less than the previous, perhaps there's a greater balance, and so on. As I said in the review, I heard the Silver Sonic producing more treble and less bass, while the Bolder seemed to produce more bass and less treble (oversimplification, but you get the point).

The best cable I've heard in my system was the Tara Labs Air1 (which I believe Jude is scheduled to review eventually) -- it had the greatest balance but everything sounded richer.

But to me any decent cable which passes along the signal disappears into the system after a very very short while, while I can usually distinguish characteristics of different amps and headphones all the time. There hasn't seemed to be as big an impact on soundstage or dynamics or things like that with cables -- except where a change in a part of the frequency spectrum gives this illusion.

Cables clearly make a difference to me, but I agree it's mainly a frequency thing -- and the ones which stand out the most are usually the ones that turn out to be the most annoying in the long run (unless you're using them as passive tone controls in a deficient system).

 

[MacDEF]

You're just cynical, Beagle

The thing that I like about the Cardas cables is that they seem to address the weaker points of the HD600's normal response. The bass is tighter, the treble is extended, the mids are flattened a bit -- but it does all this without "accentuating" any frequency, and while keeping the signature musicality of the cans. The Clou, on the other hand, was a big improvement over the stock cables, but on some recordings could overdo it in the treble and bass.

Before I heard the Caras, I loved the Clous -- they're a dramatic improvement over the stock cables to my ears. But the Cardas one-ups the Clous to my ears.

 

[Beagle]

Quote:

Originally posted by MacDEF The bass is tighter, the treble is extended, the mids are flattened a bit -- but it does all this without "accentuating" any frequency

But...

If the mids are "flattened a bit", then the bass will (seemingly) be tighter and the treble (seemingly) more extended, no? If the cable is "neutral", they you can't really say anything in particular about any part of the spectrum, because that would now be recording dependent, right? If the cable never accentuates any frequency, then it is still colored that way or else the sound of the cable would vary with every recording.

I still say cables are different from another, not "better".

Or maybe you're right, I'm cynical.

 

[dngl]

Well, I would say that stock Senn cables are not punchy at all. Grados get some bass drum punch that stock senn can't touch. Add a clou and I get bass drum punch...

I phrased my question poorly. What I meant to say is "Are the clous able to be more punchy?". Some recordings are punchy, and I would prefer them to be reproduced as such (just as I want smooth recordings to remain smooth).

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by Beagle If the mids are "flattened a bit", then the bass will (seemingly) be tighter and the treble (seemingly) more extended, no?

Um... not necessarily. I'm not sure I understand you here.

Quote:

Or maybe you're right, I'm cynical.

Yes

 

[Neruda]

let's say a headphone graph looks like this (it's vertical but it should be horizontal, bear with me here):

|
.|
..|
...|
...|
..|
..|
.|
.|
...|
..|
|

so you have slightly exagerated bass, recessed upper mids, and treble that rolls off at the top. Now say a cable came along and evened out the mids:

|
.|
..|
...|
...|
..|
..|
..|
..|
...|
..|
|

The Treble will still be rolled off and the bass will still have a midbass exageration. so no, neutral mids alone won't cut it.

Does that make any sense?

 

[indihka]

It appears that my recall is showing brain damage. When I quote someone it would make sense to make sure I'm referenceing accurately. My apologies. It was a review by Dark Angel that I agreed with.

 

[Neruda]

no worries indihka

 

[shivohum]

Quote:

The Treble will still be rolled off and the bass will still have a midbass exageration. so no, neutral mids alone won't cut it.

It depends on how the mids were evened out:

|
.|
..|
...|
...| <
...| <
...| <
...| <
...|
...|
..|
|



The "<"s indicate frequency ranges that were altered, and they were the same ones that you flattened in your graph.

The treble may still roll off a bit, but there goes the mid-bass exaggeration. Overall that's now a very accurate flat phone, really.

Quote:

If the cable is "neutral", they you can't really say anything in particular about any part of the spectrum, because that would now be recording dependent, right?

The cable's sound itself cannot be assessed except within the context of a system. Any system is colored. Therefore even a neutral cable will faithfully exhibit colorations -- the colorations not only of the recording being played, but also of the system it is played on. And where the previous cable may have done something to ameliorate system colorations, a neutral cable may, theoretically, reveal such colorations, and therefore be (somewhat unjustly) blamed for them.

 

[DarkAngel]

Well after several more days of listening my initial impressions in 1st post holds steady. Since the Clou offered slightly more extension in the treble, I have swithched MOHR ICs back to HG Silver Laces to get as much treble extension as possible.
When I used the Silver Laces with Clou the treble sometimes had a bit too much energy (Max owners can compensate with the 3 position filter)

The Cardas still excells at 75% of midrange spectrum, and the 3D soundstage generated in combination with Headroom's reference
crossfeed circuit is most impressive, fine music details and delicate
nuances are beautifully captured, music flows very naturally.


An analogy........Clou is like a Corvette, muscular, powerful with fast 1/4 mile time.

Cardas is like a Mercedes/BMW, not as fast but more elegant and sophisticated with more attention to detail.........allows the beauty of the music to be naturally revealed

BTW stock Senn cable is like Camaro 6 cylinder