[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aimlink /img/forum/go_quote.gif I may well take your advice on the RS1's. Been toying with the thought, but I still have unfinished Senn business. It'll either be the HD800, T1, or RS1 next (recabled ot a longer cable--- 6' isn't enough, or is the cable longer?). Don't quite know for sure. My more pragmatic side is saying, it aught be none.

With regards to the three you've listed, I've got them all in house and really love all three.

I did write up my thoughts on the HD800 and T1s here:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/hd8...usings-472114/

Sorry for the thread hijack.

The RS1/RS1i are also very special cans, but I find more limited to rock and jazz. Although what they do well, they do better than most!

 

[jax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scooterboy /img/forum/go_quote.gif I thought that the GS 1000 was designed as a "High End" audiophlie phone and as such will come into its own based on proper amplification and source. Is my assumption wrong and am I off base?????/

Certainly amplification can change the presentation of the headphones, and in some cases will make or break them. I don't think the amplification is going to change the core characteristics of the cans though, though it can certainly skew them to sound their worst. It can, at best, optimize them, and I guess that's what most of us look for (er, listen for). That said, I don't know about what the GS1000 was specifically intended for, and I don't know what you mean by "high-end" as such words can mean different things to different people. I contributed this opinion to another GS1000 thread recently - they are certainly not the best cans for rock. They are polite sounding, have a recessed midrange, and are otherwise very neutral and detailed with great attack and sustain. They are champions at low-level listening. They are at their best with acoustic music, jazz, vocals, classical (usually smaller scale stuff sounds best) - listening to that kind of music they are great cans. Not for rock. For rock I would look to another headphone. Since 90% of what I listen to falls into the category the GS1000 does best, I love them. I'm the kind of guy who would be inclined to walk out of a concert if it hurt my ears (and have on two separate occasions with artists I would have loved to hear if the presentation were not as obnoxiously loud). I value my hearing and the option of using ear plugs (which I do with many other activities) is, well, just wrong (music sounds better on my stereo with either option). I do enjoy some rock, but it is most certainly not the most frequently played in my library and takes up a very small portion of it. Short answer - if you are looking for versatile headphones that will excel in all types of music, the GS1000 is not for you IMHO. What it does do well, it does extremely well.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jax /img/forum/go_quote.gif Certainly amplification can change the presentation of the headphones, and in some cases will make or break them. I don't think the amplification is going to change the core characteristics of the cans though, though it can certainly skew them to sound their worst. It can, at best, optimize them, and I guess that's what most of us look for (er, listen for). That said, I don't know about what the GS1000 was specifically intended for, and I don't know what you mean by "high-end" as such words can mean different things to different people. I contributed this opinion to another GS1000 thread recently - they are certainly not the best cans for rock. They are polite sounding, have a recessed midrange, and are otherwise very neutral and detailed with great attack and sustain. They are champions at low-level listening. They are at their best with acoustic music, jazz, vocals, classical (usually smaller scale stuff sounds best) - listening to that kind of music they are great cans. Not for rock. For rock I would look to another headphone. Since 90% of what I listen to falls into the category the GS1000 does best, I love them. I'm the kind of guy who would be inclined to walk out of a concert if it hurt my ears (and have on two separate occasions with artists I would have loved to hear if the presentation were not as obnoxiously loud). I value my hearing and the option of using ear plugs (which I do with many other activities) is, well, just wrong (music sounds better on my stereo with either option). I do enjoy some rock, but it is most certainly not the most frequently played in my library and takes up a very small portion of it. Short answer - if you are looking for versatile headphones that will excel in all types of music, the GS1000 is not for you IMHO. What it does do well, it does extremely well.

Very well stated! I agree for low level/volume listening, it's amazing how the GS1000s don't sound thin (hello K701s that need to be played loud for best results).

But rock and low volume listening don't go hand in hand...

And for the record...I own the HD800s and T1s and I would very much classify the RS1/RS1i as "High End"...whatever that means.

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacedonianHero /img/forum/go_quote.gif The RS1/RS1i are also very special cans, but I find more limited to rock and jazz. Although what they do well, they do better than most!

Limiting the RS1's in that way is artificial... very personal stuff that.

I can't agree with that since Grado's are quite spectacular to me where their use isn't mentioned much.

If the RS1's really do well with rock, they would make for serious all-rounders for me.

 

[jax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacedonianHero /img/forum/go_quote.gif Very well stated! I agree for low level/volume listening, it's amazing how the GS1000s don't sound thin (hello K701s that need to be played loud for best results). But rock and low volume listening don't go hand in hand... And for the record...I own the HD800s and T1s and I would very much classify the RS1/RS1i as "High End"...whatever that means.

Agreed, rock and low-level listening wouldn't be my preference either (kind of like decaf - why bother?

)

For me, the word "high-end" implies that the components/manufacturers strive, and hopefully come closer, to reproduce the experience of a live musical experience (impossible, but they sure can get close) - it sounds like real instruments in an actual 3 dimensional space with all characteristics of those things moving you further towards suspension of disbelief. I find that as it goes further in that direction that I can relax into the music and remain engaged, while if it moves in the other direction there always seems to be a bit of an edge to that keeps me, well, edgy. When it's not there it's very easy to get up and walk away from. When it's there that becomes more and more difficult. At least that what works for me. I'm completely outside of the camp that looks for absolute neutrality and some sense of doing justice to what the engineer had in mind. I think those things may come into play, but are largely beside the point. I'm squarely in the subjectivist camp in that regard. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aimlink /img/forum/go_quote.gif Limiting the RS1's in that way is artificial... very personal stuff that. I can't agree with that since Grado's are quite spectacular to me where their use isn't mentioned much. If the RS1's really do well with rock, they would make for serious all-rounders for me.

It's not that the RS1s are bad for other types of music because they are not.

For jazz they more than hold their own and pretty good for classical too.

It's just that other headphones (especially within arms reach) can do better. For me the best all rounder out there is the beyer T1.

 

[Midrange Monster]

All this talk about piercing highs is gonna give me the same headache as actually listening to them.

There is such a thing as too laid back but too aggressive is just as bad if not worse. Don't have experience with any Grado phones so I'll refrain from making any definitive statements but unless the RS1 has more midbass and lower midrange punch than the GS1000s, I can't see them being superior for Rock or other high energy music.

Having more aggressive treble to me is a turn off. Listening fatigue is a very real thing, and at higher volumes will become an issue.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jax /img/forum/go_quote.gif Agreed, rock and low-level listening wouldn't be my preference either (kind of like decaf - why bother? )

Or de-alcoholized beer!

Never understood that one.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midrange Monster /img/forum/go_quote.gif All this talk about piercing highs is gonna give me the same headache as actually listening to them. There is such a thing as too laid back but too aggressive is just as bad if not worse. Don't have experience with any Grado phones so I'll refrain from making any judgment calls but unless the RS1 has more midbass and lower midrange punch than the GS1000s, I can't see them being superior for Rock or other high energy music. Having more aggressive treble to me is a turn off. Listening fatigue is a very real thing, and at higher volumes will become an issue.

I'm not sure how you can comment without listening to them? The SR325is headphones are just as you noted: aggressive treble! And boy is it a turn off (for me anyway).

It's not about seeing how they can be better for rock, it's about listening to hear if they're better for rock...and they are for me (and many others).

The RS1s are so much more refined (especially in the treble region) and ideal for rock.

Again, the GS1000s have recessed mids compared to the RS1s and put you further back in the audience than I (and many prefer). They are the best low volume listening headphones out there and pair with jazz/acoustic rock/classical very well.

Again, I've owned many Grado cans in the past (you can see it in my "About Me" page) and I've had them all on my head for several hours with zero listening fatigue (except for the SR325is)...with the best being the RS1i.

 

[pwnm30rdi3]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacedonianHero /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not sure how you can comment without listening to them? The SR325is headphones are just as you noted: aggressive treble! And boy is it a turn off (for me anyway). It's not about seeing how they can be better for rock, it's about listening to hear if they're better for rock...and they are for me (and many others). The RS1s are so much more refined (especially in the treble region) and ideal for rock. Again, the GS1000s have recessed mids compared to the RS1s and put you further back in the audience than I (and many prefer). They are the best low volume listening headphones out there and pair with jazz/acoustic rock/classical very well. Again, I've owned many Grado cans in the past (you can see it in my "About Me" page) and I've had them all on my head for several hours with zero listening fatigue (except for the SR325is)...with the best being the RS1i.

Yep, That's my next phone, the RS-1 or the RS-1i.
Still looking for one for sale.
They are hard to buy for a decent price.

 

[jax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midrange Monster /img/forum/go_quote.gif All this talk about piercing highs is gonna give me the same headache as actually listening to them. There is such a thing as too laid back but too aggressive is just as bad if not worse. Don't have experience with any Grado phones so I'll refrain from making any definitive statements but unless the RS1 has more midbass and lower midrange punch than the GS1000s, I can't see them being superior for Rock or other high energy music. Having more aggressive treble to me is a turn off. Listening fatigue is a very real thing, and at higher volumes will become an issue.

Sorry, I guess I missed the post(s?) about "aggressive treble." That certainly is not my experience with the GS1000's. I don't have experience with the RS1's to comment, but I'd say that whenever I play the few rock cuts I enjoy on the GS1K's I would yearn for a more forward, presentation, where the midrange was brought out. This does not at all seem to be the case in listening to other types of music (I do not wish for that more forward midrange and having it somewhat recessed suits the music very well). The only comment that I'd make about the highs is that in some vocal presentations there is a tendency towards sibilance, which I occasionally find a bit annoying. They've never occurred to me as being fatiguing in the most remote sense of the word. Quite the opposite, I find them very non-fatiguing and great for long-term listening.

 

[Midrange Monster]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacedonianHero /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not sure how you can comment without listening to them? The SR325is headphones are just as you noted: aggressive treble! And boy is it a turn off (for me anyway). It's not about seeing how they can be better for rock, it's about listening to hear if they're better for rock...and they are for me (and many others). The RS1s are so much more refined (especially in the treble region) and ideal for rock. Again, the GS1000s have recessed mids compared to the RS1s and put you further back in the audience than I (and many prefer). They are the best low volume listening headphones out there and pair with jazz/acoustic rock/classical very well. Again, I've owned many Grado cans in the past (you can see it in my "About Me" page) and I've had them all on my head for several hours with zero listening fatigue (except for the SR325is)...with the best being the RS1i.

Macedonian,

It's very possible I would agree with your statement after doing a back to back audition.

My issue is when I read some posts on here that say "gotta have those PIERCING HIGHS", "I want my ears to ring for days", etc....I instruct myself to run as far away as possible.

Another thing that bothers me with these forums is that there is no universal barometer for what's bright or what's harsh. Granted everyone's hearing/tastes are different but I often read conflicting reports saying model X is very bright, Y isn't, then the next day I see the exact opposite! How the hell is this possible???

Given my experience in high end home and car audio, my gut instinct if I had to take a blind leap of faith would be to be skeptical of the very top of the line models of each brand. Usually the warm midrange, non exagerrated treble sound I like most lies somewhere below the flagship. Based on this, the RS-1 would *probably* be a Grado I'd like, Rock music or not.

It's extremely tough trying to learn what's what by reading unless the reader is someone you know and trust 100%.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midrange Monster /img/forum/go_quote.gif Macedonian, It's very possible I would agree with your statement after doing a back to back audition. My issue is when I read some posts on here that say "gotta have those PIERCING HIGHS", "I want my ears to ring for days", etc....I instruct myself to run as far away as possible. Another thing that bothers me with these forums is that there is no universal barometer for what's bright or what's harsh. Granted everyone's hearing/tastes are different but I often read conflicting reports saying model X is very bright, Y isn't, then the next day I see the exact opposite! How the hell is this possible??? Given my experience in high end home and car audio, my gut instinct if I had to take a blind leap of faith would be to be skeptical of the very top of the line models of each brand. Usually the warm midrange, non exagerrated treble sound I like most lies somewhere below the flagship. Based on this, the RS-1 would *probably* be a Grado I'd like, Rock music or not. It's extremely tough trying to learn what's what by reading unless the reader is someone you know and trust 100%.

I would say those piercing highs really only come into play with the Prestige Series (SR325is are the worst for this). I don't find the RS1/RS1i 's highs piercing. As noted (by myself and many others), the RS1s are the much more refined upgrade of the SR series, but still have that on stage presences and impact, with better detail resolution and sound stage.

I am not asking for a leap of faith...all I am asking is for others to audition them first before leaping to the GS1000s just because they cost more $$$ (they may not be better), or assume that they have piercing treble like the Prestige Series (because they do not).

 

[jax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midrange Monster /img/forum/go_quote.gif Macedonian, It's very possible I would agree with your statement after doing a back to back audition. My issue is when I read some posts on here that say "gotta have those PIERCING HIGHS", "I want my ears to ring for days", etc....I instruct myself to run as far away as possible. Another thing that bothers me with these forums is that there is no universal barometer for what's bright or what's harsh. Granted everyone's hearing/tastes are different but I often read conflicting reports saying model X is very bright, Y isn't, then the next day I see the exact opposite! How the hell is this possible??? Given my experience in high end home and car audio, my gut instinct if I had to take a blind leap of faith would be to be skeptical of the very top of the line models of each brand. Usually the warm midrange, non exagerrated treble sound I like most lies somewhere below the flagship. Based on this, the RS-1 would *probably* be a Grado I'd like, Rock music or not. It's extremely tough trying to learn what's what by reading unless the reader is someone you know and trust 100%.

Welcome to the Internet: the world's greatest resource for not only information, but misinformation.

Opinions are like ********: Everyone's got one.

As you so rightly point out - this stuff is highly subjective. At the very best you get some sense of where some people are coming from based upon what they say here. I don't know that it's about 100% trust, but more about that understanding of where they're coming from...where they may have some crossover similarities with how you perceive things. Ultimately the only way to find out what works for you is to try the actual components with your own ears and your own music (trust or not). Buying used is a great way to do that and not loose much money in the process. Also go to meets and listen there if that's possible . Per my previous post; cans, for instance, can be made to sound great or to emphasize aspects that are less desirable depending on amp, front-end, and, god help me, cables, power, etc. That's how the same cans can sound differently.

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacedonianHero /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would say those piercing highs really only come into play with the Prestige Series (SR325is are the worst for this). I don't find the RS1/RS1i 's highs piercing. As noted (by myself and many others), the RS1s are the much more refined upgrade of the SR series, but still have that on stage presences and impact, with better detail resolution and sound stage. I am not asking for a leap of faith...all I am asking is for others to audition them first before leaping to the GS1000s just because they cost more $$$ (they may not be better), or assume that they have piercing treble like the Prestige Series (because they do not).

Where would you put the RS2i's? You did mention them once, so you may have experience with them.