Questions about CD ripping and organizing with LAME

[GregBe]

I have been doing a lot of searching and reading up on ripping my CD collection over the past few days. I have finally got my hardware set with a Creative ZVM -> PPAv2 amp -> Beyer DT-880.

From what I read, I have decided I am NOT going lossless, and LAME seems like the best choice. I am thinking VBR as well. I think I will ABX a few different bitrates to see what the best size/quality ratio is for me. There has been a lot of good advice, but I do have a few remaining questions.

Is there an all in one solution for ripping using LAME as well as organizing music as well as synching all of this with the ZVM? Is LAME simply a way to rip my music onto my laptop, and from there do I use whatever organizational program I want, such as Windows Media Player or Media Monkey? Does something like Media Monkey give me the option of LAME within the program? Is LAME the method of ripping, and the music is actually MP3, or is LAME a totally different beast altogether than MP3?

I do have some questions about an external hard drive, but I will start a new thread for that.

Thanks a ton
Greg

 

[Febs]

"Ripping" is the process of reading audio data in uncompressed format from the CD; "encoding" is the process of converting that uncompressed audio data to a compressed format.

LAME is not a ripper; it is an encoder. You will need another program, like Exact Audio Copy, to rip music from CDs.
EAC can be configured to use LAME as its encoder, so that you can rip with EAC and encode with LAME all from within EAC. It takes a few minutes to configure EAC, but once it is done, you can rip a CD with two keystrokes (alt-G to get tag information, and shift-F5 to rip and encode).

There is a good guide to configuring EAC here: http://www.misticriver.net/showthread.php?p=282942

I recommend using one of the -V command line settings listed in the guide. -V2 will result in larger files but higher quality (~192kbps average), while -V5 will result in smaller files with lower quality (~132kbps average).

NOTE: "lower quality" does not necessarily mean any audible difference. You are on the right track with your plan to ABX several bitrates to decide what works for you. I used to use -V2 (or its predecessor --alt -preset standard) until ABX testing revealed that -V5 is transparent to me. It is extremely unlikely that you will be able to tell the difference between -V2 and the original source.

Some here will say that you "must" use 320kbps CBR, or that "anything below X bitrate is crap." Treat these statements with a high degree of skepticism. Any recommendation that makes a categorical statement about what bitrate an individual should or should not use, without recognizing that different people have different sensitivities to encoding artifacts, is worthless. The same goes for any recommendation that is made with respect to bitrate (i.e., "128kbps is crap") without reference to the encoder used. By way of example, a 128kbps MP3 encoded with the Xing encoder in 1999 probably would be clearly distinguishable from the original source to a large percentage of listeners. On the other hand, an MP3 encoded with LAME 3.97b3 at the -V5 --vbr-new setting, which has a bitrate very close to that 128kbps Xing file, would be indistinguishable from the original to a large percentage of the population.

 

[GregBe]

Thanks Febs!

That was an amazingly helpful post. So if I rip with EAC, and encode with LAME, how do I manage my music and sync it to my ZVM. Does EAC do this for me, or do I use something like MediaMonkey or WMP?

 

[Febs]

No, that is one thing EAC will not do. You'll need something like one of the programs you mentioned. I can't give you much in the way of recommendations there, as I synch with my portable devices using drag-and-drop.

 

[GregBe]

So if I want to use a program to manage and sync my music, would it be better to use Media Monkey and select LAME from the get-go, or should/could I use EAC and LAME to get the music on my computer and then import it into MediaMonkey afterwards?

Thanks

 

[pds6]

I find Febs is usually right on. The only thing I would add is that I find some music sounds very good at a surprisingly low bit rate. Other music needs every ounce of juice you can find. If you got the space, I would go as high as possible. I believe your player is 30 gb hdd (???).

I have read on number of articles concerning lame encoding. For reasons that I don't know (I'm sure Febs does), 320 bits MP3 cbr (rather than vpr that seems to be recommended for lower bit rate rips) lame is recommended by a number of posters. At 320 bits MP3 cbr lame, your Creative will load more than 3,000 songs. You may or may not hear any difference, but its there if you need it.

I find ripping to be a pain. Once is enough and I would rather err on the side of a little higher bit rate (even if I couldn't tell the difference).

 

[Febs]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pds6 I have read on number of articles concerning lame encoding. For reasons that I don't know (I'm sure Febs does), 320 bits MP3 cpr (rather than vpr that seems to be recommended for lower bit rate rips) lame is recommended by a number of posters. At 320 bits MP3 cpr lame, your Creative will load more than 3,000 songs. You may or may not hear any difference, but its there if you need it.

Actually, CBR is not recommended at all by the folks at Hydrogen Audio, except for "streaming situations where the upper bitrate must be strictly enforced." Hydrogen Audio's Knowledge Base says that the quality of 320kbps CBR "is rarely better than the highest VBR profiles ...." The highest VBR profile recommended by Hydrogen Audio is -V0 --vbr-new, which targets a bitrate of approximately 240kbps. Given that 320kbps CBR results in files that are 33% bigger than -V0 files with virtually no increase in quality, it makes little sense to use 320kbps CBR.

For more info: http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=LAME

Edit: for the sake of balance, this page presents arguments in favor of using CBR (while noting the same advantages that I've already described with respect to VBR): http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=CBR

 

[Febs]

** phantom double post, sorry **

this was supposed to be an edit to my last post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by pds6 I find ripping to be a pain. Once is enough and I would rather err on the side of a little higher bit rate (even if I couldn't tell the difference).

You've made the conscious decision to sacrifice some space for an assurance of quality, recognizing that there may not be an audible difference. As long as you're not telling someone else that there files will sound like crap unless they the same settings you do, I think that this is reasonable.

 

[Zarathustra19]

When I rip into LAME, I'm using a program called Exact Audio Copy, which was designed to work in windows 95, but is still a good program for free. It allows you to download the LAME codec and install in EAC while you are actually installing the program, so LAME is the automatic way it converts it when you rip to Mp3 format. You have to type in all the info such as Title, Artist and the Song names unless you can figure out how to use the useless program that comes with EAC to label everything. I gave up on that front. Anyway, after you install EAC, it has an Mp3 button to the left of the main window in which it lists all the tracks on the CD. After you click the button, it will ask you to specifiy where you want to have the tracks ripped to, then you can create a file with the name of the artist and organize in that way, or you could try ripping all the tracks from CD into a file and see if WMP will organize them for you, I'm not sure that it will work, but its a free ripping program that can easily integrate the LAME codec.

p.s. EAC also uses a command prompt window while compressing the .wav files it has ripped from the CD into the Mp3 format, but you don't have to pay any attention to it, It'll just do what it has to and the command prompt window will disappear.

**edit: apparently I should have read the second post, as it says a lot of what I said. srry.

 

[pds6]

pds6 says:
Quote:

For reasons that I don't know (I'm sure Febs does), 320 bits MP3 cpr (rather than vpr that seems to be recommended for lower bit rate rips) lame is recommended by a number of posters.

wiki.hydrogenaudio answers:
Quote:

The rule of thumb when considering encoding options: at a given bitrate, VBR is higher quality than ABR, which is higher quality than CBR (VBR > ABR > CBR in terms of quality). The exception to this is when you choose the highest possible CBR bitrate, which is 320 kbps (-b 320 = --alt-preset insane), but this produces very large filesizes for very little audible benefit.

Thank Febs

 

[Digitalbath3737]

When ripping to lame mp3 make sure to also make lossless (FLAC preferably) copies as well. It's a simple process. While you rip your LAME mp3s just set up EAC to make sure that the WAV files aren't deleted. Later on convert these WAV files to FLAC.

It's always good to have lossless copies of your music.

Zarathustra19

EAC will automatically tag you files. There really isn't to much to it. Check out the guide in my sig.

 

[Shpoon]

I use V0 --vbr-new

I think it's a GREAT tradoff between size and quality.

 

[GregBe]

Thanks for all of the help guys. So I have decided to use EAC and LAME with their presets. I will ABX between V0 and V5. I am really hoping V5 is transparant to me.

I do have a few more questions. What type of music should I listen to to ABX. Also, how do I rip and encode anywhere from 1-6 different versions of the same songs/albums, and how do I lable them to make this process as painless as possible.

 

[Laptopia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Febs "Ripping" is the process of reading audio data in uncompressed format from the CD; "encoding" is the process of converting that uncompressed audio data to a compressed format. LAME is not a ripper; it is an encoder. You will need another program, like Exact Audio Copy, to rip music from CDs. EAC can be configured to use LAME as its encoder, so that you can rip with EAC and encode with LAME all from within EAC. It takes a few minutes to configure EAC, but once it is done, you can rip a CD with two keystrokes (alt-G to get tag information, and shift-F5 to rip and encode). There is a good guide to configuring EAC here: http://www.misticriver.net/showthread.php?p=282942 I recommend using one of the -V command line settings listed in the guide. -V2 will result in larger files but higher quality (~192kbps average), while -V5 will result in smaller files with lower quality (~132kbps average). NOTE: "lower quality" does not necessarily mean any audible difference. You are on the right track with your plan to ABX several bitrates to decide what works for you. I used to use -V2 (or its predecessor --alt -preset standard) until ABX testing revealed that -V5 is transparent to me. It is extremely unlikely that you will be able to tell the difference between -V2 and the original source. Some here will say that you "must" use 320kbps CBR, or that "anything below X bitrate is crap." Treat these statements with a high degree of skepticism. Any recommendation that makes a categorical statement about what bitrate an individual should or should not use, without recognizing that different people have different sensitivities to encoding artifacts, is worthless. The same goes for any recommendation that is made with respect to bitrate (i.e., "128kbps is crap") without reference to the encoder used. By way of example, a 128kbps MP3 encoded with the Xing encoder in 1999 probably would be clearly distinguishable from the original source to a large percentage of listeners. On the other hand, an MP3 encoded with LAME 3.97b3 at the -V5 --vbr-new setting, which has a bitrate very close to that 128kbps Xing file, would be indistinguishable from the original to a large percentage of the population.

Brilliant, as usual, Febs. I wish awards could be given for helpfulness. I would nominate you and Comfycans for the prize.

 

[Laptopia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digitalbath3737 When ripping to lame mp3 make sure to also make lossless (FLAC preferably) copies as well. It's a simple process. While you rip your LAME mp3s just set up EAC to make sure that the WAV files aren't deleted. Later on convert these WAV files to FLAC. It's always good to have lossless copies of your music. Zarathustra19 EAC will automatically tag you files. There really isn't to much to it. Check out the guide in my sig.

I will second this. If you damage or lose the CD, you can just go to Burrn, open the cuesheet, and recreate the disc. It's an exact reproduction. Better yet, when you anticipate taking a disc into a gnarly environment, make a backup and bring that instead of the original.