[ProtegeManiac]

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I didn't even think about the fact the A5+s are powered speakers. Worrying about speaker wire doesn't make any sense.

 
Plus we have to stress that, with speakers more than headphones, set-up and listening environment is a lot more crucial. The speakers' position relative to the listener can have a large impact, even on nearfield monitors. With headphones, roughly the equivalent would be the earpads (material, wear) and ear plugs that affect the fit, and to a lesser extend, the construction (ie, some have the drivers angled, either on the chassis or through asymmetrical earpads, to simulate speaker toe-in).
 
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The Auralex MOPADs are a good option, too, as they both provide some isolation and angle the speakers up.

 
The Audioengine DS2 platforms have a somewhat custom fit under the base of the speaker though, but when I posted the link I thought the recess on top was so the speaker slots into it and helps maintain balance.

 

[cel4145]

The Audioengine DS2 platforms have a somewhat custom fit under the base of the speaker though, but when I posted the link I thought the recess on top was so the speaker slots into it and helps maintain balance.

The DS2 also looks to have a steeper angle. So one or the other may work better depending on how much angle the tweeters need to be aimed at the ears.

 

[yage]

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Definitely. Placement is so important. A lot of people just stick desktop speakers on the desk without any consideration of that. It's amazing to me how many setups in the computer rig picture thread don't even have the speakers toed in toward the listening position. And then there are many where the tweeters are not aimed at ear height for the listening position, unless we got a lot of people on head-fi with their ears just above their belly buttons

 

I don't think it's a requirement to toe-in speakers. Maybe if they're close to the sidewalls of a room, or the desk is located within a cubby hole to avoid early reflections. Listening in the nearfield fixes a lot of placement problems already, except for the bass frequencies. Just depends on personal preference.
 
I think it does make sense to look at better interconnects and speaker cable. My guess is that the cables that come with the A5+ will generally be adequate, but certainly not the best. I had to use some cables that came with a DVD player to hook up my CD player to my headphone amp before the Blue Jeans LC-1 came in the mail. They sounded absolutely horrible. The treble was clearly distorting, adding a slight buzzing sound to vocals on Feist's 'The Remainder' album, for example. The cables won't make or break a system, but it can certainly improve the sound in subtle yet important ways.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

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I don't think it's a requirement to toe-in speakers.

 
My desk right now didn't permit toe-in permanently (corners would hung off the edge), but with toe-in and a pillow between them to manage reflections, soundstage gets deeper. Haven't gotten around to getting my new media room/office customized as I had other (medical) expenses these past few months. I can't even find the original sketch I worked out with our carpenter.

 

[yage]

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My desk right now didn't permit toe-in permanently (corners would hung off the edge), but with toe-in and a pillow between them to manage reflections, soundstage gets deeper. Haven't gotten around to getting my new media room/office customized as I had other (medical) expenses these past few months. I can't even find the original sketch I worked out with our carpenter.

 


That's interesting - I've read that without toe-in, some speakers have a more expansive soundstage (left to right) but imaging becomes less precise. Mono recordings may sound diffuse as well. Personally, I toe-in my speakers because they sound better that way - more focused with better center fill on those 50's Miles Davis Prestige releases. They're also fairly close to the side walls of my listening room (short wall placement).

 

[cel4145]

I don't think it's a requirement to toe-in speakers. Maybe if they're close to the sidewalls of a room, or the desk is located within a cubby hole to avoid early reflections. Listening in the nearfield fixes a lot of placement problems already, except for the bass frequencies. Just depends on personal preference.

That really depends on the speakers and their dispersion characteristics. Many speakers have a drop in high end response off axis, and many of the computer desktops I have seen without speakers toed in have the listening position 30 to 45 degrees off axis. For example, look at these measurements of the PSB Image 2B: http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/psb_image2b/ The variation between on axis and 30 degrees is quite significant.

 

[yage]

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That really depends on the speakers and their dispersion characteristics. Many speakers have a drop in high end response off axis, and many of the computer desktops I have seen without speakers toed in have the listening position 30 to 45 degrees off axis. For example, look at these measurements of the PSB Image 2B: http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/psb_image2b/ The variation between on axis and 30 degrees is quite significant.

 


Yeah, but look at the listening window response - averages across +/- 15 deg on-axis in the horizontal and vertical plane. Not bad at all. Trust your ears.

 

[cel4145]

Yeah, but look at the listening window response - averages across +/- 15 deg on-axis in the horizontal and vertical plane. Not bad at all. Trust your ears.

What?

 

[Username15]

Actually, in my experience toeing in the A5+'s make the soundstage smaller and them a tad less precise, so I am making a compromise between being able to listen to them far away(placing them facing straight forward) with 0.01 cm of toe in. That makes for the best sound so far.
 
Also, I am using aftermarket wires from Best Buy (Rocketfish) and they in fact DO apparently improve the sound quality. The original cables that came in the box sounded thin and weak, while these were way more powerful and warmer/richer in terms of sound, and I am using banana plugs from the same company.
 
Thanks so far.  

 

[yage]

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What?

 


If you average across the off-axis response, the overall curve is smooth, which means you don't have to toe-in speakers to have acceptable sound. Just another parameter to play with until you get the treble / imaging / soundstage just right due to the actual in-room response. This you should tailor to according to your tastes (i.e. your ears).

 

[cel4145]

If you average across the off-axis response, the overall curve is smooth, which means you don't have to toe-in speakers to have acceptable sound. Just another parameter to play with until you get the treble / imaging / soundstage just right due to the actual in-room response. This you should tailor to according to your tastes (i.e. your ears).

Sure, the average response chart is smooth, but one isn't listening to the average response of the measurements since those are taken at different positions unless one is moving their seat around at their computer. The point is that the frequency response does change quite a bit if moved from 0 degrees---toed in--to 30 degrees off axis.

 

[yage]

Sure, the average response chart is smooth, but one isn't listening to the average response of the measurements since those are taken at different positions unless one is moving their seat around at their computer. The point is that the frequency response does change quite a bit if moved from 0 degrees---toed in--to 30 degrees off axis.

Right. My point is that you can't use these frequency response graphs in isolation and conclude that you *must* toe-in. Every in-room response and set of ears is different, so when the speakers are out of the anechoic chamber, we usually fine tune placement by ear to suit our particular tastes, i.e. trust your ears.

 

[cel4145]

Right. My point is that you can't use these frequency response graphs in isolation and conclude that you *must* toe-in. Every in-room response and set of ears is different, so when the speakers are out of the anechoic chamber, we usually fine tune placement by ear to suit our particular tastes, i.e. trust your ears.

Sure. If it sounds better with the speakers stuck under the desk, certainly that's the listener's choice.

But I somehow doubt all those people in the desktop rig thread have tried their speakers toed in with tweeters angled at the listening position to see if the actual response of the speaker when directly radiating at their ears is better or not. See my original post that you disagreed with. I never said it was a requirement. But that is the optimal theoretical placement.

 

[Username15]

Thanks for all your replies so far.
Here's another question: Is having a longer interconnect and a shorter USB cable better or is having a shorter interconnect and longer USB cable to compensate better?
Before, I tried a 2 metre long USB cable, and the sound was very thin and unreal, and there was a lot of stutters and momentary stops, and the bass was very echoy. So I switched back to the 1 foot long USB, and all problems were solved. Is a longer USB or longer interconnect better?

 

[cel4145]

Some devices don't work well with longer cables. If you have stutters and stops, that is the case. If you were using decent cables such as Monoprice, could easily be that the cable length was the problem.