[GivenTheOkiDoke]

I just built my PC and rather then buying a seperate headset I want to use my current headphones and a modmic. If I buy an Amp can I recive audio from the games and use the mic plugged directly into the motherboard i/o?

I am as new to anything audio as they come. My headphones are Audio Technica MSR7's. My thought process was Modi 2 into a Little Dot 1+. As I say my anything audiophile knowledge is lacking. I looked into something like a Sound Blaster X7 and I don't quite know if I want to go that route over trying a tube amp. Keeping in mind it will be about an even split between using everything for gaming and music.

Hopefully I made since of everything. Appreciate everyones time.

 

[PurpleAngel]

Audio Technica ATH-MSR7 are only 35-Ohm, tube amp may not be the best choice for driving them (impedance issue).
A solid state or hybrid (tube/solid state) would be a better choice for lower (35-Ohm) headphones.
 
For a DAC, Asus Xonar DX sound card (buy used off eBay, $45).
http://www.ebay.com/itm/252813130632?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
For a head amp, Fiio A3 ($60)
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1160529-REG/fiio_a3b_a3_portable_headphone_amplifier_black.html

 

[GivenTheOkiDoke]

The reason I said tube was based off of earfonias review of the headphones. Maybe I misunderstood. During his review he was saying when paired with the HA22Tube they sounded better. Without butchering everthing I assume as a broad term "bright" means the treble is high or more pronounced an "warm" bringing out the base or rather accentuating. As the only headphones I have to compare being an older pair of M50's and my current MSR7's the issue with the latter is the base or lack there of. So with my limited research I figured the Little Dot 1+ paired with the right tube would be a good alternative to the hard to find in the U.S. and more expensive HA22Tube.

I never did any type of research on the Ohms of my headphones and what I need in comparison with an amp. Another option that people tended to pair with the MSR7 was the Centrance DACport. Also I do not need anything portable, but I am not opposed to anythimg because of its size.

What are the benefits of an internal sound card vs an external dac?

Thanks.

 

[PurpleAngel]

The Audio Technica AT-HA22 is a hybrid (tube and solid state) headphone amplifier.
So with the HA22, analog audio signal first runs thru the tube(s) part of the amp, but the output is controlled by solid state.
I believe the Little Dot 1+ is a hybrid.
 
With the Xonar DX, your getting a nice CS4398 DAC chip, plus the option of Dolby Headphone surround sound.
Dolby Headphone might help for surround sound gaming.
A used Xonar DX is only $45.
 
An external DAC offers zero headphone surround sound features.
But if you have no need for headphone surround sound, then nothing wrong with getting an external DAC.

 

[GivenTheOkiDoke]

So using the Modi 2 as an example. What would be the benifits of an external dac? Sound quality in music?

An say I go A3 and Xonar DX would I then be cool to plug my mic into the motherboard and be good to go?

 

[PurpleAngel]

So using the Modi 2 as an example. What would be the benefits of an external DAC? Sound quality in music?

An say I go A3 and Xonar DX would I then be cool to plug my mic into the motherboard and be good to go?

Nothing wrong with going with a Schiit Modi DAC, It just costing more then a used Xonar DX.
External seem to have a cleaner background, internal might pick up electrical noise.
 
With the Xonar DX/A3 combo, you would plug your mic into the DX's line-input jack.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

The reason I said tube was based off of earfonias review of the headphones. Maybe I misunderstood. During his review he was saying when paired with the HA22Tube they sounded better.

 

Better compared to what? If it's drastically a different tone then what's happening might be that the tube circuit is designed to totally change the sound. If that was an OTL amp, ie the kind that PurpleAngel was specifically referring to that would have problems with output impedance, then that's all the more the harmonics of the tube and the effect of the impedance mismatch, which can vary in effect from one headphone and one OTL amp to another.

 

Also as PurpleAngel noted the HA22Tube is a hybrid tube amp, and in most cases this is what people use to get that tubey sound on a low impedance headphone for not a lot of money. It's basically a tube preamp stage mated to a solid state output stage. Select the right tube and you can round off sharp edges or totally change the tone.
 

Without butchering everthing I assume as a broad term "bright" means the treble is high or more pronounced an "warm" bringing out the base or rather accentuating. 

 

A better way to put "warm" would be a de-emphasis on the treble, ie, rolled/trimmed off. Overall the balance would be skewed against the treble but while that can bring out the bass as far as the listener's perception of hte sound balance is concerned, it doesn't always necessarily entail that it accentuated the bass by boosting it. In many cases just rolling off the treble lets the listener hear the midrange and bass easier, and if done sparingly, won't drastically alter the midrange tone. In some cases this can be overdone that some vocalists can sound like they have sinusitis.
 
 

As the only headphones I have to compare being an older pair of M50's and my current MSR7's the issue with the latter is the base or lack thereof. So with my limited research I figured the Little Dot 1+ paired with the right tube would be a good alternative to the hard to find in the U.S. and more expensive HA22Tube.

 

The LD 1+ is a hybrid amp, not a pure tube, so that will work well enough with low impedance headphones without altering the sound apart from the harmonic distortion from the tube preamp circuit.
 
 

What are the benefits of an internal sound card vs an external dac?

 

The soundcard has a DSP chip. Maybe the output stage isn't as clean owing to exposure to a lot of other stuff inside the computer chassis, but otherwise if it doesn't pick up any noise I'd doubt how many people will be able to tell the difference. That DSP chip handles all the processing, including virtual surround simulation for games and movies, room reverb simulation (a similar tech called Crossfeed is used on 2ch headphone amps and DACs, as well as apps like Equalizer APO and Foobar), and SPDIF output. And since the same DSP chip handles SPDIF output, you can actually use a soundcard with a DAC, as long as they use SPDIF and not USB.

 

Note that I'm referring specifically to soundcards like Xonar/Strix and SoundBlaster, not something like that soundcard made by Onkyo (or pure 2ch cards like SB Live! models) that was basically adapted from one of their CDPs, made to work off a PCI slot instead of a CD transport, and then shielded.

 

So using the Modi 2 as an example. What would be the benifits of an external dac? Sound quality in music?

I'd rank the relatively smaller differences in SQ (barring the use of hte DSP features) relatively low and put other benefits ahead of it. One is ease of use - you can't use an internal soundcard with a laptop at your work desk. And then there's the price to performance. The Modi2 (USB DAC) and Magni2 (HPamp) cost $100 and overall will get you a lot more clean power over, say, the SoundBlaster E5, but of course the Creative has a DSP chip and Bluetooth. Another, and specifically regarding the Magni2 (and Vali2) for example being used with the Modi2 is that you can shorten the analogue signal path (something you can also do with a DAC hooked up to the soundcard via SPDIF), which is technically preferable (although not necessarily at all times having appreciable benefits), and finally, the aesthetics. The Modi2 and Magni2/Vali2 can be stacked together, and for those who use them with a laptop on a work desk.
 

 

 

An say I go A3 and Xonar DX would I then be cool to plug my mic into the motherboard and be good to go?

 
That can work also.

 

[GivenTheOkiDoke]

I think what I was thinking about when I said "better" was enhancing the bass especially. I like the headphones but they seem to get lost a bit. Almost unclean. A good way to describe it is the highs and mids melt together and feels complementary. The we get to the lows and it is distant in a way where it seems out of place as if its fighting to be part of the music. Thats where the tube amps, or hybrid as I now undestand of the differance comes in. They need some help becoming coherent.

I think for this case I am going to get the Xonar DX for my DAC an figure out an amp to pair.

Thanks for the insight.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

I think what I was thinking about when I said "better" was enhancing the bass especially. I like the headphones but they seem to get lost a bit. Almost unclean. A good way to describe it is the highs and mids melt together and feels complementary. The we get to the lows and it is distant in a way where it seems out of place as if its fighting to be part of the music. Thats where the tube amps, or hybrid as I now undestand of the differance comes in. They need some help becoming coherent.

 

Bass sounding more distant as opposed to just plain inaudible isn't necessarily "fighting to be a part of the music" but "more natural imaging," ie, the bass drum (and the rest of the percussion) would be far behind the vocals, and in a properly mixed recording (vs, say, a too small venue with gain not fixed well or you're standing in the wrong spot too close to the bass guitar amp), the bass guitar is mostly not going to be at the same level as the guitars. They should be audible, yes, but barring certain beat-driven genres like funk rock, they're not really supposed to be fighting for your attention vs the guitars.

 

And the basic trend of going from the M50 to the MSR7 - being newer and of a higher tier - isn't exclusive to AudioTechnica. The same is true going from the Momentum to the HD600 or HD800, or HD25 to HD650, much like going from Grados to any midrange much less flagship AKG, Sennheiser, Ultrasone or Audeze, since the goal as you go up the ladder is to improve imaging. In short, assuming I'm correct, what you probably prefer isn't simply stronger bass, but less of an attempt at a 3D soundstage out in front of the listener.

 

You can see an angle mounting here similar to its competitor the MDR-1x series from Sony, something that Ultrasone calls "S-Logic" and is implemented in other headphones like the HD800 and Sony CD3000 and Qualia, as well as angled earpads on AKGs, Audeze, and HiFiMan. This simulates the toe in on speakers, the same way that more toe in gives you a deeper soundstage that extends to the rear of the speakers rather than pushing everything forward towards and to the flanks of the listener. I even use angled Brainwavz HM5 pads on my HD600 for the same benefits - bass overall is slightly more audible in terms of sound balance, but slightly more clearly imaged well behind the vocals. I also use Crossfeed which also pushes the cymbals back and to the center for a more proportional drummer size relative to the size of the other band members (ie, if the drums span the entire width, then it's like having a drummer that is relatively the size of King Kong to normal sized bandmates).

 
 

I think for this case I am going to get the Xonar DX for my DAC an figure out an amp to pair.

 

The DX by its own won't make much of a difference based on its own DAC chip but of course you can use its DSP for virtual surround (if you need it for games and movies) as well as its EQ program to boost the bass. The latter though can be done with free apps like Equalize APO, in case you don't need/want virtual surround anyway, and you can just spend only on the DAC and amp.

Still though the amp isn't going to drastically alter the bass response barring an amp that does more than just amplify the signal it's getting, however getting more power with less distortion and better damping factor means you get more headroom for boosting the bass with EQ apps. Boost everything below 60hz, and more gain the lower you go, to basically have the 10hz to 70hz range more equal (rather than a drastic nose dive somewhere before it hits 20hz), and that range slightly louder than 1000hz. 

 

[PurpleAngel]

I think what I was thinking about when I said "better" was enhancing the bass especially. I like the headphones but they seem to get lost a bit. Almost unclean. A good way to describe it is the highs and mids melt together and feels complementary. The we get to the lows and it is distant in a way where it seems out of place as if its fighting to be part of the music. That's where the tube amps, or hybrid as I now understand of the difference comes in. They need some help becoming coherent.
I think for this case I am going to get the Xonar DX for my DAC an figure out an amp to pair.

Have you doubled check the motherboard's on-board audio settings, make sure there set for (2-channel?) headphone output?
 
How about using Foobar2000 (W/WASAPI) for playing music audio files?
 
You always can just get the headphone amplifier (hybrid) for now.
I'm currently using the Xonar DX, with my OTL (pure tube) Darkvoice 336SE amplifier.
I like using the Xonar DX and I guess I like recommending it, but it's not something you have to have right now.

 

[Logistics]

The Little Dot 1+ can handle much lower loads than 35-Ohms. I'd try it. In fact I've had my eye on it for a bit due to my 24-Ohm headphones, handling in upwards of 1W. Weak source or improper settings may be hindering the bass, all this besides the fact that these headphones accept 2W, which is ridiculously high--I think OP is having the same problem I was having with my MDR-V700's, which is lack of power. I took my cans to CanJam, and nothing I tried stacked up against them with a powerful amplifier.

TL;DR Get an amplifier that gives you several hundred milliwatts or more at 35-Ohms. The Little Dot 1+ is such an amp.

 

[GivenTheOkiDoke]

Yeah I am unsure as I noted before my knowledge is lacking hence doing some research on the web an for the most part using Head Fi as my sensi. After reading into a little more and understanding what Protege was saying I think getting the Xonar Dx will be a good idea. At 50 or so U.S. it is not much of an investment into my first real experiance trying to fine tune my MSR7. Also virtual surround was something I had no intrest in until I just read up on on based off Protege and Purples input. I may be something that if I pass up on for an external DAC I may regret.

 

[PurpleAngel]

Yeah I am unsure as I noted before my knowledge is lacking hence doing some research on the web an for the most part using Head Fi as my sensi. After reading into a little more and understanding what Protege was saying I think getting the Xonar Dx will be a good idea. At 50 or so U.S. it is not much of an investment into my first real experiance trying to fine tune my MSR7. Also virtual surround was something I had no intrest in until I just read up on on based off Protege and Purples input. I may be something that if I pass up on for an external DAC I may regret.

 
I recomended the Xonar DX as a DAC, but it's headphone/Front Speaker jack has a 100-Ohm output impedance.
Not the greatest for plugging 35-Ohm headphones directly into (as it would cause issues like a bloated bass).
So I would only recomend the Xonar DX as long as you get a headphone amplifier to use with it.

 

[Logistics]

If you happen to have an old receiver or stereo amplifier from the 80's or earlier, I would highly suggest hooking it up, and giving your cans a listen to, using it as the headphone output stages were usually much more powerful in older hardware. I actually ended up doing that--I had a Yamaha pre-amp with a good headphone stage, and that was already an improvement. Then I ditched my X-Fi Fatality for an M-Audio Delta 410, which is a lower end professional card, as far as features are concerned, but the difference in sound quality is night and day.

Anyway, before you spend money on a card, I would get your cans amplified, correctly. That way your cost versus return is more dramatic.

 

[GivenTheOkiDoke]

Yeah I will probably look around and see if any place in the area has an A3 I can test out. Also I am sure my pops has a reciver or 10 so I will have a listen. Thanks for some info and help guys.