[yobs]

Disclaimer - I am a speaker noob.

I've recently set-up a speaker rig in my bedroom with the following gear:

PS3 -> optical out -> iBasso D1 -> LD MK III pre-amp -> Sonic Impact T-Amp -> Wharfedale Diamond 8.2s

It doesn't sound terrible, but gets blown away in detail by the k501s w/ k701 pads. The speaker rig is rather bright, and a little veiled, and I would think that this is due to the amp underpowering the speakers. I haven't been listening at overly loud volumes (the room is only 12 * 15 ft rectangle).

Particular weaknesses i'd like to fix are the lack of bass / bass presence (there is less bass than my k501s w/701 pads) also a lack of detail in general.

1) Are there any speaker amps that are relatively cheap (very cheap if possible) that could better drive this?
2) Am I better off purchasing a sub and making a 'magicBox' for the T-amp?
3) Sell lost of gear and get RS-1s instead?

4) Would the gain of the LD MKIII Pre-amp make much diff feeding the t-amp?

Thanks

 

[royalcrown]

Well, I can say your speakers probably are less than optimal in terms of sensitivity for the T-amp (google tells me 86 db, you probably want something like 90 for the T-amp). That being said, the t-amp should still drive the speakers well, just not at very high levels - I have heard of people with 86db speakers and t-amps that love the sound. They just can't drive it very loudly.

One thing that I'm confused about: why do you have a pre-amp coming from a line source? I might be mistaken, but I thought the job of a pre-amp was to amplify a source to line level, which the PS3 already does. In this case, the pre-amp might be adding unwanted coloration to the sound, and since the t-amp already has a volume pot in it, I would play around without the pre to see if you like the signal better without it. I mean, I can't see the preamp making much of a difference in terms of wattage, but I don't think wattage is your principle concern unless you're just talking about loudness. Of course, take what I say with a grain of salt, as I've never used a pre-amp before.

Another thing that stands out to me is the iBasso. From what I recall, isn't that a DAC and a headphone amp? If so, can you disable the headphone amp feature? That might also be screwing with your signal path and messing with things. I don't have any experience with an iBasso though, so I don't know if the amp function can be disabled or not.

Something tells me that the lack of bass is due to the speakers, not the amp; maybe someone with more experience can solidify this. Just from what I've seen though, there are lots of people who run the t-amp at quiet levels that don't suffer from a lack of bass. What is this magic box you speak of though? I have a bookshelf/sub with the t-amp, and I just use the speaker level in/outputs and I've had no problem to date. BTW, my subwoofer is a 10" polk 50W PSW10 that I got for sale on amazon for 100 bucks. It sure as hell isn't audiophile, but it gets the job done for a small room, so that might be an option for you.

Good luck with your setup.

 

[yobs]

Royalcrown,

The pre-amp was more to get the tubiness of the LD pre-amp stage into the mix, and tame that birghtness I was hearing. Don't know if this was actually hurting the path, but it does sound a little better for me, placebo or not. I'll retry the setup without pre-amp though. Haven't had much opportunity to critical listen yet

.

Yep, the D1 amp stage is skipped, so its straight from dac -> pre-amp -> power amp.

From what i've read, the wharfedale's should have semi decent bass, hence my wondering if the amp section is the weakest link at the moment.

One more thing, the cabling i'm using is not particularly awesome, though I'm unsure how big a difference cabling would make to the bass (the current biggest issue i'm finding) in a relatively low-fi speaker rig like this.

 

[Fitz]

Positioning and the room itself makes the biggest difference in a speaker's sound, much more than the amp or anything. Have you already tried different ways of placing the speakers?

 

[Dept_of_Alchemy]

Get a late 80's solid state amp for $100 on ebay. You could get 100 or 150 watts and that makes a difference.

 

[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by royalcrown /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have heard of people with 86db speakers and t-amps that love the sound. They just can't drive it very loudly.

I've got a pair of PSB Stratus Minis, which I drive with the T-Amp. The Minis are not very sensitive at all (86dB, 4 Ohms, if I remember correctly), but the T does just fine with them, if, as you say, I don't turn up the volume.

I originally connected the T to the Minis as a joke, and the punchline ended up being the immediate retirement of the 50-watt solid state TEAC integrated that I had been using.

I don't think most people would be very happy with the volume levels that I can realistically get away with, but the sound is so good at low-to-moderate volume that this is what I am going to live with until I can afford one of the pricier Tripath-based amps.

Anyway, my neighbors are a lot more sensitive than my PSB's, it would seem. If I turn up the volume, I immediately get unwanted percussion from the other side of my living room wall. So I'm pretty constrained volume-wise regardless of what amp I use.

 

[soloz2]

I have a pair of Infinity RS2 bookshelves that are rated at 100w being driven by a Marantz 1030 integrated which is rated at 15wpc RMS. granted the Marantz is in a different category to the T-amp, but I have no problems and my Marantz powers my speakers without a problem to very loud levels.

 

[sejarzo]

There's absolutely no way that you will ever hear detail from Diamond 8.2's that comes close to what you hear from your K501's......even if you have $50k of electronics feeding them.

Your tube preamp cannot make the sound "cleaner". It can add tube warmth, but more gear in the chain can only add distortions, not remove them.

 

[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by soloz2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have a pair of Infinity RS2 bookshelves that are rated at 100w being driven by a Marantz 1030 integrated which is rated at 15wpc RMS. granted the Marantz is in a different category to the T-amp, but I have no problems and my Marantz powers my speakers without a problem to very loud levels.

The thing about the T-Amp is that the Tripath chip, which is amazing, is surrounded by junk components, from the volume pot to the speaker terminals. Every thorough review I've read says that the T really puts out a max of around 5 watts before it starts to fall apart sonically.

Something tells me your Marantz sounds clean at or near its rated power of 15 watts, which is quite a bit more than 5.

So, while the T will get quite loud, even with my inefficient speakers, it is not a good kind of loud. On the other hand, the little critter cost $40! I still can't believe that.

 

[yobs]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sejarzo /img/forum/go_quote.gif There's absolutely no way that you will ever hear detail from Diamond 8.2's that comes close to what you hear from your K501's......even if you have $50k of electronics feeding them. Your tube preamp cannot make the sound "cleaner". It can add tube warmth, but more gear in the chain can only add distortions, not remove them.

Yep, that's pretty much what I had expected I suppose, just wondered if there was some magical solution that would prove that wrong

.

I suppose there is - sell all the random things and get back my sold k701s

. Still the setup sounds nice enough for studying/guitar-ing along but not too nice to distract

.

Extra kudos to the system setup giving +2 geek factor to my room though. Pics added soon if i'm non lazy.

I wonder if there's a team aesthetic-fi already...

 

[royalcrown]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrBenway /img/forum/go_quote.gif The thing about the T-Amp is that the Tripath chip, which is amazing, is surrounded by junk components, from the volume pot to the speaker terminals. Every thorough review I've read says that the T really puts out a max of around 5 watts before it starts to fall apart sonically.

I don't think that it's the crap components that limit the wattage of the t-amp, I just think that it's the limitation of the tripath chip used. The only reason I mention this is because even the super t-amp, as well as the various mods to it, don't really ever exceed 2x5@8ohm, unless they call it 15W (@10%THD) for marketing's sake

 

[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by royalcrown /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't think that it's the crap components that limit the wattage of the t-amp, I just think that it's the limitation of the tripath chip used. The only reason I mention this is because even the super t-amp, as well as the various mods to it, don't really ever exceed 2x5@8ohm, unless they call it 15W (@10%THD) for marketing's sake

Yeah, you're right about that. This is why I've held off on the Trends Audio unit. Better volume pot, better speaker posts, etc, but basically the same chip. But I don't thnk the junk parts on the basic T-Amp help matters any.

Do you know if the AudioSource AMP Seven T is any good? This eBay seller says it was manufactured by Carver, but I've always heard that the AudioSource stuff is just O.K., nothing to write home about. It's so much less expensive than the high-end Class-T stuff I've heard about, and claimed power is 200 watts per channel (doesn't say if that's min RMS, or into what load).

Claimed specs sound way too good to be true for the price...

 

[soloz2]

little dot makes a 100wpc T amp