[macbrush]

My friend works in a studio as mastering engineer. He kept telling me Sony sounds artificail, urging me switch to Senn for a more nentral sound. After years of convincing, I finally bought a pair of HD650, and picked up a pair of Cardas cables as well.

I currently own a pair of CD3000, and SA5K. First time I listen to HD650 straight out of the box, I couldn't believe myself, its unbearable, highs are all gone, nothing, tonnes of bass, vocal is about 20 ft behind all the instruments. One word... horrible. So I let it burn in for a complete 5 days with all sorts of tunes, and 1 day with the burn in CD that comes with Cardas cable. Then I listen to them again, improved, but still far too dark from what I used to. I also own a pair of e5, so I know I have to get used to a new phone, get myself adjusted to the sound signature. I did that for a week or so. Now I could hear all the details from HD650, and appreciate its neutral sounding.

However, especially listening to vocal recorded in concert hall, its still too far away sounded almost... "hollow" (please excuse my English), if I chose the right word. Metallic instrument still don't sound very metallic. Its like mid/high have been depressed, and a cardboard is placed between me and the musicians.

I ask because I live in Hong Kong. I just wonder whether that's how HD650 supposed to sound like, or I got myself some counterfeit!

P.S. I have already wacked out the foams. It help a little though.

 

[saturnine]

Well, coming from a CD3k/SA5k, the HD-650 will be quite dull sounding! IMO, the Woo3 is a good amp, but the one I demoed was a bit too laid back with Senns. If you decide to keep the HD-650, be sure to try out a brighter than usual solid state amp.

 

[macbrush]

Actually, you're quite right. I had to let out my Sieman's CCA tubes combo with a modern 6080 to make it sound okay, with this combo, I might just go with a solid state amp instead of tubes. With my usual favourite tubes, even with the telefunken ECC88, its just slow and dull. Not to mention attacks are almost gone, decays are just too fast.

 

[macbrush]

Thanks for your reply. Actually, you're quite right. I had to let out my Sieman's CCA tubes combo with a modern 6080 to make it sound okay, with this combo, I might just go with a solid state amp instead of tubes. With my usual favourite tubes, even with the telefunken ECC88, its just slow and dull. Not to mention attacks are almost gone, decays are just too fast.

P.S. Sorry for double post. The server was down for a moment just now, and I thought the last post didn't make it.

 

[jagorev]

Only with a bass-heavy amp, or a warm tube amp. Paired with the right kind of brightish solid-state amp, I think it sounds neutral.

 

[macbrush]

I have a AT-HA20, I bought it for burning in cans and cables, as well as its dual output for A/B comparison. But quality is nowhere near Woo3 with a set of good tubes. Any suggestion on a solid state amp that goes with HD650 in around $300 - $500 range?

I mainly listen light music, soft rock, and jazz. Thanks

 

[kin0kin]

hollow is a little too much to describe the 650, vocal does sound far apart but by no means hollow imho. It's just less upfront compared to other headphones. Another thing you must consider is where you are coming from

 

[Asmo]

Just a question, did you switch from the sonys, because you dislike the sound, or because someone else told you that the sennheiers sound better?

It sounds to me, like you very much dislike the sennheiers, you taking the foams out, etc. Why own a pair of headphones, you have to change that much, to get a sound that you like? I would forget the 650s, and look at something else.

 

[en480c4]

IMO you can't expect to immediately like something that is clearly a big change. My advice to you would be to put the Sonys away for a while and give yourself a real chance to adjust to what you're hearing. In my experience, other than highlight dramatic changes, swapping between vastly different cans does little real good. Putting the Sonys away will allow you to adapt and judge the Senns as they perform and not necessarily directly compared to the Sonys.

My 650's (with Zu) have GREAT synergy with my PPA v2. In my experience, this is a very fast and detailed amp. It's so fast and aggressive that I find it unlistenable with my Grados. And the Millett Hybrid doesn't mate well enough with the 650's for me to pair the two. As with any system, I think synergy is as important as anything. Nothing is truly neutral, so it's finding the right combination of components that allow the music to shine is what it's really all about.

Also, if you bought the 650's new, you might want to give them a chance to burn in. I was skeptical of burn-in myself, but after the 650's had a chance to run a bit, they really opened up.

Good luck, I hope you end up being happy with your purchase.

 

[Revliskciuq]

I have to recommend my own setup, the Headamp Gilmore Lite with accompanying PSU. You can pick them up together at Headamp for $499.

I've found them to be an excellent match with Sennheisers; they bring the music forward and present it with some punch.

 

[cheechoz]

Coming from the CD3000, and SA5000, it will be hard to adjust! Most cans sound dull in comparison, especially the HD650.

Did you remove the foam under the pads? This will help open the highs, just a little bit, not much, but an improvement nonetheless!

A different amp might also help your situation out. I have a PPX3-Slam, and I will be trying out some different tubes to find the right combination for my 650. I might also be looking into a SS amp in the future!

 

[ns6490]

I've listened to broken-in 650s on some top amps. Neither break-in nor amp change will drastically change the signature sound of the headphones. What I do appreciate about the Senn house sound is a natural presentation of classical music, and lack of sibilance. The latter comes at the expense of not sounding forward -- I don't think that's a bad thing. You might really like 555 or 595, as they preserve much of the 6*0 series while giving a more forward presentation.

 

[aerius]

Coming from the CD3000 and especially the SA5000, pretty much any other headphone is going to sound dark and bloated.

Is the HD650 neutral? No. To me it's on the dark side, the highs are noticeably rolled off and there's a few other minor issues, including the infamous "veil" which you seem to have noticed. The vocals will remain somewhat distant, I won't say never, but I believe it's highly unlikely that it'll have the "reach out and feel it" feeling which some other headphones can give. And that's the way it is.

Now, you can try and give it more time and see if you come to like the HD650 more, you may, you may not. If not, well, time to move on and find something you do like.

 

[Marek_K]

I have HD595s(I believe 650s are very similar) and I'm glad to hear that my 595s aren't broken.I switched to them from koss sporta pros a week ago or so.Every time When I put them on my head I notice the same thing.Highs are all gone,vocals not so expressive,they lack sibilance and they sound dull or veil to me.In comparison with sporta pros.After a week of use they really opened up.On the other hand soundstage is something that can't be compared.Seens are a way, way better in this aspect.I can't really say that senns sounds worse than koss, cos it aint true, they just present a music different way (much better way) and everything i have to do is get used to their sound.I'm still trying to compare them ,I listen one song with koss and right after that I listen the same song with senns.But this is not the best strategy how to get used to them , I think.And maybe is an issue my sound source- PC+SBlive, so I'm switching to M-audio revo.I'll see..

 

[halcyon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by macbrush I ask because I live in Hong Kong. I just wonder whether that's how HD650 supposed to sound like, or I got myself some counterfeit!

It is just what you described and more.

Some will never like them

No amount of cable/amp/foam swapping is going to change that.

Just let go and move on.

I like my Senns and I do think most Sonys are artificial, SA5000 is honky in the critical mid-range and Cd3000 are just reverberation chambers for those liking euphonic type of presentation.

But that's just me. It's all very relative. My frame of reference is big orchestral acoustic (non-amplified) live music. Not another headphone.

And I do agree to some degree with the failings of HD650 as you described them. They are far from perfect, but easy to listen to for long hours continuously (for me), which is why I like them so much.

I don't use them for critical listening requiring lots of micro-detail even at low volumes. I don't think they're well suited for (or as general monitoring headphones).