[MdRex]

I recently bought a universal player (plays CD, DVD, DVD-A, SACD etc etc). I was very impressed at how good the SACD sounded even with a humble Headsave Classic Headphone amp. But when I inserted a redbook CD into the player, I was quite disappointed at the sound, bass and treble roll off, mids were artificial sounding. IOW, it sounded horrible.

Now I'm confused, does a universal player have different DAC sections for different disc type?

 

[CanMad]

It depends how it has been implemented in the player. For example, some players convert the DSD of SACD to PCM and then through the same DAC section. Unfortunately you generally have to go fairly hi-end on the Universal players to get good red book play back.

You could consider adding a good DAC at some time in the future, using your universal as a transport. However, depending on the DAC you may find that Red Book performance is then better than SACD from your universal

 

[sejarzo]

I'm curious........what universal player do you have?

The AKM 4396 DAC in the 0404 USB is capable of direct DSD decoding without going through PCM conversion, and it sounds great to me on standard wav files from a PC via Foobar at 44.1kHz (or upsampled) or by using the SPDIF/Toslink inputs out of a DVD player used as a transport. Better than the upsampling DAC section in my MF cd player, actually, and better than SACD's in a mid-level universal player.

I've not heard any particular reason that universal players should sound horrible on CD when they sound so great on SACD/DVD-A discs.

 

[meme]

I wouldn't mind one sometime in the future. I'll keep my current cdp for redbook, as i'm pretty happy with it, then just use the uni for the rest.

That's when i can afford one of course....

 

[infinitesymphony]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MdRex /img/forum/go_quote.gif But when I inserted a redbook CD into the player, I was quite disappointed at the sound, bass and treble roll off, mids were artificial sounding. IOW, it sounded horrible. Now I'm confused, does a universal player have different DAC sections for different disc type?

In the case of your Pioneer DV-696AV (good choice BTW, where did you find it?), everything is converted to PCM and sent to the Burr-Brown PCM-1742 DACs. I'm not sure why you find that SACDs and CDs sound so different, but here are a few possibilities:

-high-res formats usually sound better

-different style of music / mastering on the CD (even more likely)

That's assuming the CD you put in wasn't the CD version of the SACD you tried.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sejarzo /img/forum/go_quote.gif The AKM 4396 DAC in the 0404 USB is capable of direct DSD decoding without going through PCM conversion, and it sounds great to me on standard wav files from a PC via Foobar at 44.1kHz (or upsampled) or by using the SPDIF/Toslink inputs out of a DVD player used as a transport.

The 0404 USB has a built-in DSD decoder? I did a search and couldn't find anything about that. I see that the AKM4396 is designed to handle DSD in some way, but it's not clear whether or not it's meant that it handles DSD internally or that it's capable of being connected to a DSD decoder. Even if it could decode DSD, there's no guarantee that it's implemented in the 0404 USB.

 

[sejarzo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by infinitesymphony /img/forum/go_quote.gif The 0404 USB has a built-in DSD decoder? I did a search and couldn't find anything about that. I see that the AKM4396 is designed to handle DSD in some way, but it's not clear whether or not it's meant that it handles DSD internally or that it's capable of being connected to a DSD decoder. Even if it could decode DSD, there's no guarantee that it's implemented in the 0404 USB.

No, sorry to have confused you. To clarify, what I should have written was that the 4396's block diagram clearly shows a parallel route to the delta-sigma modulator for DSD data that bypasses the PCM data interface and interpolators. In a universal device that used that chip (or maybe the CS4398, another "latest and greatest" chip well regarded by many) for both purposes, I would be surprised to find that the SACD playback sounded great and the lo-rez playback was horrible--because I know the chip sounds great on lo-rez in devices that don't use its DSD capability and the D-to-A is actually accomplished by the same converters.

You made me think of another issue, though--I had concluded that the parallel route shown on the 4396 block diagram for DSD was proof that it didn't convert DSD to PCM, but that could be a mistake in my interpretation of the block diagram. It shows a "DSD data interface" separate from the "PCM data interface".........but could that DSD interface actually be a DSD-to-PCM converter?

Maybe I am reading more into that block diagram than I should.

 

[MdRex]

Quote:

In the case of your Pioneer DV-696AV (good choice BTW, where did you find it?), everything is converted to PCM and sent to the Burr-Brown PCM-1742 DACs. I'm not sure why you find that SACDs and CDs sound so different, but here are a few possibilities: -high-res formats usually sound better -different style of music / mastering on the CD (even more likely) That's assuming the CD you put in wasn't the CD version of the SACD you tried.

I found my pioneer at a local brick and mortar shop, I live in Singapore. It's a great little player (didn't make a huge dent in the pocket) for a great price. Yep, the SACD and the CD I have tried were different albums, its weird because I've ripped the CDs into FLAC on my computer rig, which sounded great. However I couldnt be happier with the SACD playback, I was literally blown away when I popped in my first SACD.