[freelyfallin]

Hey all,
So I just picked up a HD595 a couple of weeks ago. I've had no experience with hi-fi headphones before this. I've been using it with my laptop and my iPod, but I keep hearing how an amp will "open up" my headphones, etc. I don't really understand what this means. Anyone want to try to explain it to me?

Could someone maybe try to quanitfy how much "better" my HD595's will sound with an amp?

Also, my friend has a home theatre/stereo reciever that has a headphone out jack(one of the big jacks). Will that provide the same experience as a headphone amp?

 

[hugz]

The ipod and the computer both have an inbuilt amp, but it kinda sucks.. esp for big headphones. The value of using an external amp is that it allows you to skip the crappy internal amp.

However, to skip the internal amp of the laptop you would need to use an external dac (and here it starts to get complicated). To skip the external amp of the ipod you can just use the lineout

The headphone jack on the friend's receiver does indeed have a headphone amp inside it. The question is how good is that headphone amp? It could just be another crap amp like that inside an ipod or laptop. However, it would probably be a good idea to at least trying to plug your headphones into this before going out an spending lots of money on a headphone amp. It would at least give you a taste of how it could sound

As for your question about whether an external amp will improve your headphones.. i cannot answer this because i have not heard your headphones! Assuming you do it right (ie connect it to a lineout or a external DAC, as opposed to putting it in series with the inbuilt amp) I'd say it WILL sound better.. but the question is whether its worth the money! And that all depends on the headphones and how much you care

 

[wnewport]

In other words...

Sorry 'bout your wallet.

 

[freelyfallin]

Thanks for the advice so far, but I'd still like to hear about how much better the HD595's would sound with an amp, and how much money I'd need to spend on a good amp.

And also, I'd need to get a DAC for my laptop to skip the internal amp, but I could just use the lineout for my iPod to skip the external amp? Wouldn't the lineout of my iPod be powered via the iPod's internal amp?

 

[hugz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by freelyfallin Thanks for the advice so far, but I'd still like to hear about how much better the HD595's would sound with an amp, and how much money I'd need to spend on a good amp. And also, I'd need to get a DAC for my laptop to skip the internal amp, but I could just use the lineout for my iPod to skip the external amp? Wouldn't the lineout of my iPod be powered via the iPod's internal amp?

first of all, congrats on understanding my post

i always wonder if what i write is even readable

A line out is an unamplified output. This is NOT the headphone jack on your ipod. I beleive the line out of the ipod is on the bottom of it (but i'm not sure because i dont own one).

So the headphone jack of your ipod and the headphone jack of your laptop both have an amplifier behind them. The line out of the ipod, on the other hand, does not have an amplifier behind it.

If your laptop has a line out then you can use it (rather than getting a DAC), but i'm not sure if i've ever seen a laptop with a line out.

So in summary, a lineout and a headphone jack are two seperate things. A headphone jack is amplified whereas a line out is not. An ipod has both a headphone jack AND a line out. A typically laptop will only have a headphone jack.

 

[freelyfallin]

Alright, I understand that now. But don't a good deal of headphone amps rely on amplified outputs? I mean, I am looking to spend probably under a hundred dollars on an amp, as my headphones were only $140(though the retail for closer to $300 I think) and I'm in college.

So is the whole DAC thing logical for someone in this price range? And would I notice an appreciable increase in quality without one?

 

[hugz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by freelyfallin Alright, I understand that now. But don't a good deal of headphone amps rely on amplified outputs? I mean, I am looking to spend probably under a hundred dollars on an amp, as my headphones were only $140(though the retail for closer to $300 I think) and I'm in college. So is the whole DAC thing logical for someone in this price range? And would I notice an appreciable increase in quality without one?

Well if you just plug the headphone amp into the headphone jack of your laptop, then the headphone amp will just be amplifying the flaws of the headphone jack. Kinda pointless in my opinion.

Budget is always a big problem though. You may be able to pick up a guzzler DAC for cheap (they're a DIY dac that costs almost nothing to build, and which connects to USB making it laptop friendly), and then connect it to a headphone amp.. but even that would be stretching the budget

I dunno how much zhaolu's go for second hand, but they're a DAC with a built in headphone amp...... but it doesn't run on USB... so you'd need to get a USB->spdif converter, which in itself would probably cost around $50 in itself

I suppose in the end I dont really have a sollution for you! Sorry! Hopefully someone else will be able to.. or maybe someone will come along and say "hugz is crazy and its fine to connect a headphone amp to the headphone jack!"

Alternatively, if you use the ipod for your source, it already has a lineout so you could dedicate 100% of your budget to the amp (oh, and a cable which can connect the ipod's lineout to an amp)

 

[freelyfallin]

I think my computer might have a spdif jack(though I'm not sure-I just got a new laptop and I'm not too sure about the soundcard). Would that help my situation?

And if I wanted to just use my iPod, what would my best bet be?

 

[hugz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by freelyfallin I think my computer might have a spdif jack(though I'm not sure-I just got a new laptop and I'm not too sure about the soundcard). Would that help my situation? And if I wanted to just use my iPod, what would my best bet be?

If it has a spdif output then you can connect the laptop directly to a DAC.

If this is the case, you could get something like a zhaolu DAC second hand.. but this would probably be stretching the budget a tad

SOMEONE RECOMMEND THIS BOY AN AMP

 

[Dept_of_Alchemy]

What model laptop do you have freelyfalling? Some mac notebooks have optical outputs and if that's the case then you just saved yourself $50 bucks.

Anyway, there actually aren't that many amps available at the $100 range (even though there should be!), if you can stretch your budget to $200 then you could get a system with laptop -> Entech 203.2 -> Little Dot II -> HD595.

Entech 203.2 will be $50 shipped on ebay, little dot II will be $130 shipped on ebay (or $100 shipped for slightly used ones), you'll need $30 to $50 for 2cables, one that go from your laptop to the DAC, and the other from the DAC to the amp. This system should be noticibly better than the headphone out from your laptop or the ipod.

You can also consider the Bithead from HeadRoom (headphone.com), it's a combination of DAC and amp in one portable package and is made by a respected company, although that will be over your $100 budget... maybe you can hunt around the ForSale forum to see if you can get a good deal on an used one.

The Echo Indigo is also a favorite in these forums, but it costs a little more than the Bithead and you can't use it with your ipod.

For budget amps, there are cmoys on ebay for much less than $100. The Little Dot Micro+ is also on ebay. PA2V2 is a good choice as well.

Good luck finding the perfect amp. Welcome to head-fi.

 

[freelyfallin]

I have a Dell Latitude D820. It has a "Sigmatel High Definition Audio" bus, whatever that means.

I suppose the BitHead amp makes the most sense. Would I be able to get good sound out of my Ipod with it, or would it be a lot worse than the sound I'd get out of my laptop because of the USB out?


Also, is it typical to spend more money on an amp than on headphones? I thought it made sense to spend less on an amp than headphones because it seemed to me that the headphones are the essential part of the set-up.

 

[ebrius35]

Quote:

Originally Posted by freelyfallin Also, is it typical to spend more money on an amp than on headphones? I thought it made sense to spend less on an amp than headphones because it seemed to me that the headphones are the essential part of the set-up.

Sadly..... that seems to be how it goes. I haven't been around long but I've noticed the major Headphone price points seem to be around 50, 100, 200, 300, give or take a bit, then way out into the thousands. And the 300-level headphones, the HD650, AK701s, etc. are considered some of the best already withotu going nuts...

Amp price points seem to go from DIYs starting in the 50s. to commericial and DIYs in t 150's, 300, 600, 1000, and multi-thousand pretty quickly. DACs and CD players and the like can be seperate components, multiplying the cost of a system.

 

[vorlon1]

Look into a Go-Vibe 5, which is an excellent Portable Amp for about $85 and has plenty of power. You can run it out of the headphone out of your laptop or the headphone out of the Ipod, but the sound will be better if you get a lineout dock for the Ipod. While it's true the sound is not the maximum best from the headphone outputs, it's not that bad and you can set the volume to about 60% and use the volume on the Go-Vibe or other amp. Here is a link to some reviews of portable amps.
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showt...=203445&page=2

 

[Anointed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by freelyfallin So I just picked up a HD595 a couple of weeks ago. I've been using it with my laptop and my iPod ... Could someone maybe try to quanitfy how much "better" my HD595's will sound with an amp? Also, my friend has a home theatre/stereo reciever that has a headphone out jack(one of the big jacks). Will that provide the same experience as a headphone amp?

freelyfalling -

I don't mean to burst any bubbles or anything, but allow me to share with you my experiences. I have an iPod 4thGen and Sennheiser HD595. I really love these headphones, and I'm sure your quite aware, that they have gotten some great reviews. I don't know about the newer iPods, but mine does not have a line-out that is readily accessed. I had to buy another item to plug into the bottom port and that enabled me to get the line-out feature.

I bought an amp from S-HellBrook and recently got ripped by them, so I am without am amp at the moment. I never really listened to my Senns much without having the amp in place, but I've had several Koss & Sennheiser headphones paired with a few CMoy based amps ... the amp that the guy stole from me, was better by a smidge than say the CMoy "tins". It looked a lot better for sure.

To be honest, I really did not hear that much difference between the iPod headphone out and the line-out to that particular amp. I know, it is sad to say, but I am just being honest. If I had my amp, I certainly would use it - and I miss having one (looking into a Ray Samuel next). I used to have a review bookmarked about the iPod ... 4th Gen in particular had a Wolfs-something-or-other DAC, and they did some measurements and determined it was pretty decent as far as distortion and frequency response. I think the iPod is a pretty good source as far as portables go, especially with 320kbps AAC or better.

The HD595s actually did start to sound better on the bass and more particularly the high range, after about 2 months of steady play time. You might want to try 'burning' them in over some time ...

I have a $2,500 Denon reciver with a 1/4" headphone out (home theater with Miller & Kreisel speakers) - I'm sure it is not the best, but it sounds pretty good. I noticed a difference right away with the Denon compared to either the iPod alone, or iPod/amp combo. I would play a CD that I considered to by 'dynamic' and would loop it over and over all night, at a pretty good volume level. Not to the point of distortion, but a level I'd not want to listen too more than 30 mins at a time. Eventually, I'd creep the volume a little higher, always mindful of any hint of distortion. This was how I burned the HD595s in.

You have some great headphones ... you'd have to go to the 600 series to get any better, and then for sure, you'd want an amp - simply because of the higher impeadance. I'm sure yours are comparatively lower in impeadance ... Sennheiser had a fire in Germany about a year ago, and the next batch of HD595s that came out were not of the higher impeadance (I wish they were).

I know for the "cool factor" it would be great to get an amp, but with you being a student and all, I know money is tight. Perhaps you could save up or maybe for a gift from someone - otherwise, I have to say that my experience did not show a significant improvement in overall sound with the amp.

I did not have an $800 amp either, so that might make a difference ... mine was about $200 and sounded just about the same as did an evilfire CMoy tin I bought a long time ago.

If you are cranking the treble and bass up on your laptop, and get used to that, you may yet again be dissapointed in an amp of $100 or less. I would like to think a Ray Samuel SR71 or Hornet will really do some magic, but I am realistic too ... the source is a large componet and I doubt that I am going to be floored, though I still plan to get me an amp soon to replace the one that guy stole from me.

The headphones are going to improve with time anyway once the transducers start to limber up a bit. I feel the higher impeadance headphones are more reactive, and an amp really can make a difference with those, but the iPod can power the HD595s without much trouble. Without an amp, I have my iPod at about 70% volume level with no noticeable distortion.

You sound like you want to get the most out of the Senns, and I gather that the iPod will be your source of choice. I suggest that you have ACC files of no less than 320kbps, lossless if you can, and 'burn' in the headphones. Some of the amps suggested by others that are in your price range should work well for you starting out ... I'd hold off on dropping a large sum on an amp right away.

I just know that from what I heard from that $200 amp by DD, it really was not that much of an improvement. Psychological, more than anything else. Don't expect too much 'magic' to happen ... that's my advise. If you are a very critical listener, over time with an amp of good quality and a good quality source, there are slight improvements in lower end and slight in tonal aspects, but I would not say that is something that the average person would notice.

The guys here have way better amps/sources than I had, so they have better experience down that road - I have the HD595s + iPod like you, and can only say what I felt about that como.

iPod will continue to be my source, and I am actively seeking to get another amp replacement - like everyone else, I am hoping for something great to come of it, but by now I am realistic too. I'll have the satisfaction of knowing a quality amp from someone like Ray Samuel paired with some quality headphones like Senns, is the best possible I can do with what I have to spend.

Hope this helps you some ...

 

[dslknight]

I agree with Anointed in that the difference between listening amped vs unamped is really small ... more like turning on a lamp in an already lighted room. With my E500 connected to SMIV it sounds really nice and bright but then connecting directly to the headphone out on the ipod ... it sounds the same, but probably less bright. Maybe it's a placebo effect. Now if you get a tube amp, things might be different.

Sorry 'bout your wallet....