[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xxtest83 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hello, i have a X-Fi Titanium as well and use it in games with a DT 880 (through optical out to a Benchmark DAC). I have it set to game-mode, headphones, xi-cmss-3d activated and can locate footsteps in games (for example css) quite exactly, including forth/back and even up/down to a certain degree. I tested this setting with my Yuin PK1 and UE-11 as well, and all do the job. The UE-11 almost even better than the DT-880, but the shrinked soundstage of non-fullsize headphones and therefore the harder seperation between your own and others footsteps makes it quite a pain.

DAC1/DT880 is a great combo for competitive play..

 

[Xxtest83]

And for all i read i guess the HD 800 will be even more so.

I didn't know of the benefit of setting the windows speakersystem to 5.1 or 7.1 yet and i was surprised of how good it worked (5.1 even better for unknown reason). With the addition of EAX effects i can locate almost exactly where a sound is coming from including all rooms/areas in the map.

I used a cheap 7.1 speaker system for games in the past and my actual rig works better for me.

One side-topic question: What amp would even further improve the image precision/soundstage to improve ingame-localisation? I thought about a Lehmann BCL Pro.. (i still use my system to 80% for music)

 

[paulb09]

I know this is rather off topic, but it would be really cool if games simulated sound like binaural recordings.

 

[oqvist]

Many PC games do or at least used to. Otherwise if you have creative soundcards you can use CMSS3D or dolby headphone is quite popular for others.

 

[ear8dmg]

Yep. Dolby Headphone (on Xonar D2) does the job for me. CMSS-3D headphone gets the directional aspect about right but Dolby Headphone adds the 'out of head' element for a very binaural-like experience.

 

[paulb09]

Not tried Dolby Headphone (haven't ever had the capability), but I thought CMSS-3D wasn't that great, plus I wasn't going to bother having to turn it on and off going from games to music every time. But many games don't actually do much to start with. If you find a binaural recording of fireworks you'll see what I mean, because guns sound similar to a certain extent with the way the echo carries. Some games do a bit of work by actually altering the sound whether you're in a confined area or outside, but they still just sound like gunshot recordings done inside or outside.

I thought EAX was meant to handle the reverberations, but when I last used it (bear in mind it was a long time ago), it made things sound like you were in an enclosed room with excessive reflective properties whether you were inside or out. It only sounded remotely realistic to me on games like DOOM 3 where pretty much everything was enclosed and metallic. Now games mostly seem to be taking audio processing into their own hands (probably because CPUs are more powerful these days so there's less need for a dedicated sound card with special features), but I haven't heard anything binaural like, and some have very poor quality recordings with poor positional processing.

Perhaps I should go out and get a card capable of Dolby Headphone and see what it's like.

 

[ear8dmg]

There's two different things going on here. EAX and similar systems handle environmental audio in the game environment - so things like reverbarations, occlusion etc. Dolby Headphone basically simulates surround sound speakers around you. It alters the headstage to put you in a 3d environment.

There are 3 Dolby Headphone modes. The most basic simulates a 5 speaker surround system in a 'reference' room. The second makes the 'room acoustics' a little more dynamic. The third is a larger room with dynamic room acoustics and it simulates the speakers being further from giving a greater impression of space.

I find it's best to use DH1 on EAX titles because everything can get a bit too echoey otherwise (you get simulated room reverberations over the top of simulated game reverbarations which can get pretty nasty).

CMSS-3d was pretty horrible on the Audigy series but I think it works well on full spec X-Fi cards (not XtremeAudio, anything USB or a few others). It simulates a 7 speaker surround system around you but has no room acoustic simulation or variation in 'distance' from the 'speakers'.

What card did you last hear EAX on? An X-Fi running EAX 3, 4 or 5 can be very impressive. Bioshock is a good game to try to hear EAX working well. I was particularly impressed by the occlusion effects.

The Xonar cards are natively EAX 2 but Asus have implemented a simulation of higher EAX levels. It doesn't work in all games though.

Unfortunately there isn't an X-Fi with Dolby Headphone but you could always get one that does dolby digital live and run it to a dolby headphone capable receiver.

 

[paulb09]

I was an X-Fi XtremeMusic, and whatever EAX level DOOM 3 and Call of Duty 2 had. As I use a 740C for D/A conversion I'd really need everything to be done on the sound card.

I'm not sure I'm that bothered about a gaming sound card right now anyway. Even if I used CMSS-3D my game didn't improve, and right now I rarely play online so it's not much of an issue (sometimes I wonder if it's simply that I don't play games at high volume levels, looking out for my ears). I'd more be interested just to try and make the audio in some games sound more realistic.

 

[ear8dmg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulb09 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I was an X-Fi XtremeMusic, and whatever EAX level DOOM 3 and Call of Duty 2 had. As I use a 740C for D/A conversion I'd really need everything to be done on the sound card. I'm not sure I'm that bothered about a gaming sound card right now anyway. Even if I used CMSS-3D my game didn't improve, and right now I rarely play online so it's not much of an issue (sometimes I wonder if it's simply that I don't play games at high volume levels, looking out for my ears). I'd more be interested just to try and make the audio in some games sound more realistic.

For realism, I'd certainly recommend Dolby Headphone over CMSS-3D. I'd also mention the potential use of Dolby Headphone for music listening. The Xonar can be set up to simulate a set of stereo speakers, rather than 5. I love this option for most music that was mastered for stereo speakers. DH1 for music with an already good soundstage (live recordings, most classical etc) and DH3 for close-miked recordings (studio pop, rock, hip hop etc). It sounds very much like a binaural simulator but it's very headphone dependent. On a lot of headphones it doesn't sound quite right (tinny, echoey or only part of the sound 'outside head'). I can, however, recommend Sennheiser HD600, HD580, Goldring NS1000, DR150 (reduced tape mod) for use with Dolby Headphone (as long as they have adequate amplification). On most of the other headphones in my signature (including unmodded DR150), something sounded rather un-natural about Dolby Headphone.

You can get a Dolby Headphone plugin for Foobar but it's nowhere near as good as the native version on Xonar.

I think that headphones must be reasonably accurate, detailed and controlled throughout the audible range and not do anything too clever with headstage in order to have good synergy with Dolby Headphone. This is less the case with CMSS-3D headphone which works well with a wider range of headphones (but is usually unsuitable for music listening, because of the weird upmixing thing it does).

By the way -are you sure you had CMSS-3D set up correctly? That's X-Fi set to headphone, windows set to 5.1 or 7.1 and the game also set to 5.1 or 7.1. The exact method has changed with Creative's varying drivers. It's much more intuitive now than it used to be.

 

[paulb09]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ear8dmg /img/forum/go_quote.gif By the way -are you sure you had CMSS-3D set up correctly? That's X-Fi set to headphone, windows set to 5.1 or 7.1 and the game also set to 5.1 or 7.1. The exact method has changed with Creative's varying drivers. It's much more intuitive now than it used to be.

It's been so long now I really can't remember the settings, but it wasn't just as simple as turning CMSS-3D on. I could tell there was a difference from the sample sound it played, but in game I didn't really find it helped much. My problem is usually more related to hearing movement later than other people, and sometimes I wonder if it's simple that they turn their volume up rather high.

 

[Oneironaut]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ear8dmg /img/forum/go_quote.gif By the way -are you sure you had CMSS-3D set up correctly? That's X-Fi set to headphone, windows set to 5.1 or 7.1 and the game also set to 5.1 or 7.1. The exact method has changed with Creative's varying drivers. It's much more intuitive now than it used to be.

I have a X-Fi xtremegamer and AD700s that I use for gaming. When I first got them I was NOT happy with the positional audio or sound quality when I was playing left 4 dead. I couldn't tell where sounds were coming from and gun shots sounded harsh/high pitched/shrill and literally hurt my ears. I came across a forum saying that the way that source games (half life 2, CSS, left 4 dead) handle audio is different and that this is the best way to configure sound settings for these games (5.1 in windows sound settings, 5.1 in game sound settings, headphone setting and cmss-3d in gaming mode on creative settings, make sure the "synchronize with control panel" box is unchecked in the creative settings. I also play with EQ off, but that's probably up to you).

I used to have the headphone setting selected in game and for some reason changing it to 5.1 surround made a BIG difference. A lot of the harshness went away and I was more able to hear what direction sounds were coming from. I think some of this was getting used to the way positional audio on headphones sound and burn in from the headphones as well.

In l4d I can easily hear other players above me on a roof and often shoot them in the air when they're trying to jump down. I can easily hear them around corners and a lot of the time I shoot them through walls because I can hear them through it. For the OP - I don't really play CSS, but changing your sound settings might help since it is a source game as well.

 

[ear8dmg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oneironaut /img/forum/go_quote.gif I used to have the headphone setting selected in game and for some reason changing it to 5.1 surround made a BIG difference. A lot of the harshness went away and I was more able to hear what direction sounds were coming from. I think some of this was getting used to the way positional audio on headphones sound and burn in from the headphones as well.

That's the way both CMSS-3D and Dolby Headphone are supposed to work - simulating speakers. If a game supports headphone mode, it's an either-or situation. Either use game headphone mode and turn off CMSS-3D / DH or use 5.1 / 7.1 and turn on CMSS-3D / DH.

In game headphone modes are usually at bare minimum, a stereo mode with some crossfeed, although some have other effects applied.

Both DH and CMSS-3D have a crossfeed equivalent component. If you use an in-game headphone mode with either of them, you get a crossfeed effect applied twice. It usually sounds nasty.

Edit: By the way - hearing stuff above you is probably down to the EAX elevation filter (there's a box to tick for it in X-Fi control panel), rather than CMSS-3D headphone. You can get the same effect with speakers.

 

[Instinct]

Try turning off CMSS-3D. I think you can hear whether the footsteps are from your left or right better without it.

 

[themanbeast]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Instinct /img/forum/go_quote.gif Try turning off CMSS-3D. I think you can hear whether the footsteps are from your left or right better without it.

I would agree with this. When I played CSS competitively (CAL S1-S10) I used a multitude of different headphones, which I will list below:

MDR-F1
DT-880
AD700
HD595
Icemat Siberias
Steelseries 4h and 5Hv1
E.D.G.E. Acoustics IEM headset (I forget the model #, these are made by Ety)

I have also used a variety of sources:

Onboard sound
Creative Audigy 2
Creative X-Fi
Zero DAC/AMP -> F-Xi
Meier Cantate

Personally, I performed the best with my AD700, but I don't think any of those headphones will impact you enough compared to each other that one would stand out immensely, at least as gaming in CSS is concerned. That game is much more of a feel of when someone is going to be in a certain spot, which just comes with time. I can't justify spending a whole bunch of money for a gaming setup if you have music down and good to go, so I would probably recommend the AD700.

Main reasons why I would recommend the AD700:

- Extremely comfortable
- Your sound card will be more than enough for it
- Won't break the bank
- The hideousness of the AD700 protects against theft, like the next time Remix goes to a LAN and tries to jack a computer (LOL)

You are fine with your source. I would experiment with CMSS both ways, to see how you like it. Personally I was able to discern where people were much easier with CMSS off.

 

[Instinct]

@thebeastman

How are the HD595s for listening for footsteps? I was thinking of buying them because the HD555's are popular among CSS players, and I'm looking to go beyond that. I'm looking for audiophile phones (less than $200) that will primarily allow me to hear footsteps clearly (and perhaps hear them at a further distance) and in the correct direction. A second would be for it to perform well overall in music. I do not need that immersive feeling in games, just footsteps + music. I will be using a creative titanium fatal1y sound card. I don't have an amp or have any knowledge about them.

Anyone know if the DT 770s are good for gaming? I know it is reccomended you need an amp, but how is it without one?