[DefinitelyLegit]

A couple years ago I decided to buy some new headphones, after getting tired of the really fuzzy sound all of my cheap headphones had. After some pretty extensive research, I decided on buying the ATH-M50s, because everyone and their mother recommended it
 
I'm really happy with the sound quality, but I've heard that having a good quality DAC can improve the sound quality by quite a margin, depending on the scenario (I mostly listen to music using my computer, a laptop with really bad audio and my LG G3, which seems to have pretty good sound quality).
 
I've been researching and a DAC that gets recommended quite often is the ODAC by Mayflower Electronics. However, it is way too pricey for me, so I decided to go on Ebay and search for products with the same chip.
 
I found this relatively cheap one for +-35 euros without import charges (I live in Europe): 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DA3-SA9227-PCM5102A-32BIT-384KHZ-USB-DAC-HIFI-Asynchronous-Decoder-Case-/141814513374?hash=item2104cdbede:g:WW4AAOSwI-BWMcfL
 
Do you guys think it would perform the same as the ODAC, except for not having a headphone jack? Or is there more to it than just the DAC's chip when it comes to sound quality?
 
(This is my first post, by the way )

 

[Me x3]

  A couple years ago I decided to buy some new headphones, after getting tired of the really fuzzy sound all of my cheap headphones had. After some pretty extensive research, I decided on buying the ATH-M50s, because everyone and their mother recommended it
 
I'm really happy with the sound quality, but I've heard that having a good quality DAC can improve the sound quality by quite a margin, depending on the scenario (I mostly listen to music using my computer, a laptop with really bad audio and my LG G3, which seems to have pretty good sound quality).
 
I've been researching and a DAC that gets recommended quite often is the ODAC by Mayflower Electronics. However, it is way too pricey for me, so I decided to go on Ebay and search for products with the same chip.
 
I found this relatively cheap one for +-35 euros without import charges (I live in Europe): 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DA3-SA9227-PCM5102A-32BIT-384KHZ-USB-DAC-HIFI-Asynchronous-Decoder-Case-/141814513374?hash=item2104cdbede:g:WW4AAOSwI-BWMcfL
 
Do you guys think it would perform the same as the ODAC, except for not having a headphone jack? Or is there more to it than just the DAC's chip when it comes to sound quality?
 
(This is my first post, by the way )

It won't perform the same as the ODAC, but anyway I wouldn't spend on a DAC in your position.
 
M50 is a good headphone but there are significanlty better headphones out there, especially if you can pick an open back design.
 
So, before spending money on an external DAC, I suggest saving for a superior headphone.
The DAC, even the ODAC won't be much of a difference for M50s.
 
If you really, really want to buy a DAC, then you can start with the Fiio E10K (USB powered DAC/AMP)

 

[DefinitelyLegit]

It won't perform the same as the ODAC, but anyway I wouldn't spend on a DAC in your position.

M50 is a good headphone but there are significanlty better headphones out there, especially if you can pick an open back design.

So, before spending money on an external DAC, I suggest saving for a superior headphone.
The DAC, even the ODAC won't be much of a difference for M50s.

If you really, really want to buy a DAC, then you can start with the Fiio E10K (USB powered DAC/AMP)

I've been checking reviews for that Fiio (E10K) and the E07k, although the E07K is a bit cheaper and seems like a better buy to me.

I know that a amp and DAC are not really needed for my headphones (my other daily headphones are the Soundmagic E10s), but a portable one would be really handy.
Do you recommend the E07K? I would like to get a overall consistent playback between my devices, do you think I would be getting it with that Fiio or the E10K?

 

[PurpleAngel]

  A couple years ago I decided to buy some new headphones, after getting tired of the really fuzzy sound all of my cheap headphones had. After some pretty extensive research, I decided on buying the ATH-M50s, because everyone and their mother recommended it
I'm really happy with the sound quality, but I've heard that having a good quality DAC can improve the sound quality by quite a margin, depending on the scenario (I mostly listen to music using my computer, a laptop with really bad audio and my LG G3, which seems to have pretty good sound quality).
I've been researching and a DAC that gets recommended quite often is the ODAC by Mayflower Electronics. However, it is way too pricey for me, so I decided to go on Ebay and search for products with the same chip.
I found this relatively cheap one for +-35 euros without import charges (I live in Europe): 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DA3-SA9227-PCM5102A-32BIT-384KHZ-USB-DAC-HIFI-Asynchronous-Decoder-Case-/141814513374?hash=item2104cdbede:g:WW4AAOSwI-BWMcfL
Do you guys think it would perform the same as the ODAC, except for not having a headphone jack? Or is there more to it than just the DAC's chip when it comes to sound quality?

 
The DAC you listed appears like it's expected to be use with a separate amplifer.
Not something to plug headphones directly into.
 
The most I would consider spend for a DAC (USB-DAC-amp) for driving the ATH-M50 (or M50X) is the FiiO E10K ($76).
 
For a low costing DAC for use with your headphones, this is a good value.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171769188894?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
There are so cheap, just order two, in case one breaks.

 

[Me x3]

I've been checking reviews for that Fiio (E10K) and the E07k, although the E07K is a bit cheaper and seems like a better buy to me.

I know that a amp and DAC are not really needed for my headphones (my other daily headphones are the Soundmagic E10s), but a portable one would be really handy.
Do you recommend the E07K? I would like to get a overall consistent playback between my devices, do you think I would be getting it with that Fiio or the E10K?

Well, E10K is a tiny bit more clear than E07K. Both will work well in order to provide an overall consistent playback between your computer and laptop.
 
The main advantage of E07K vs E10K is that you can use it with your phone on the go (because it's a battery powered device), but in this case it can be used only as an amplifier (not a DAC), so it won't boost the the sound quality of your phone, it will just amplify what's already coming out from the phone.
 
Anyway, I'm pretty sure the LG G3 provides very good sound quality and I see no reason to add an amplifier in between to drive the very sensitive M50.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DefinitelyLegit /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

Do you guys think it would perform the same as the ODAC, except for not having a headphone jack? Or is there more to it than just the DAC's chip when it comes to sound quality?

 

First off, the ODAC doesn't have a headphone jack. Just because it's a TRS jack doesn't mean it's always for a headphone. What it has is a line level out jack for feeding an external amplifier. Basically, the same kind of output as the other DAC, except that one has RCA.

 

Now, if you're referring to the single box O2+ODAC unit, that one has a headphone output, since the ODAC is in the same chassis as the O2 headphone amplifier. That version just has the ODAC module in place of the O2's battery, so you give up listening free of wall power to get a DAC in the same box.

 

As for performance, even just as a DAC device, that depends. The analog output section can introduce distortion, or its power supply lets a lot noise through. To be fair, some people encounter the latter with the ODAC depending on the quality of the USB port it's plugged into (or the mobo and PSU in the computer), something that is hard to totally avoid when you design a lower price DAC where one of the cost saving measures is to not give its own quality power supply. Not that the ODAC's USB power is really that bad, it's great compared to most USB-powered DACs, it's just that USB can pick up noise from the computer or have power issues than one that relies on wall power (or its own battery).

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by DefinitelyLegit /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

I'm really happy with the sound quality, but I've heard that having a good quality DAC can improve the sound quality by quite a margin, depending on the scenario (I mostly listen to music using my computer, a laptop with really bad audio and my LG G3, which seems to have pretty good sound quality).

 

Most DAC chips in most devices tend to output a flat signal from 20hz to 20khz, it's how they handle the analogue signal after that where the problems start. On a smartphone, the DAC chip is integrated into a single audio chip for the headphone amplifier, and the latter isn't exactly a powerhouse - it doesn't have its own power supply, it doesn't have its own power capacitor bank, etc - so it's not uncommon to get 5mW at 32ohms and it's already close to audible distortion levels. Kind of the same thing with most laptops and some desktop computers, except they have more power (voltage, not necessary current) before totally becoming unlistenable.

 

At the same time, in most cases barring a desktop computer with a dedicated headphone output from the motherboard in front and then dedicated speaker outputs at the rear, the problem is how the analogue signal has to pass through the headphone amp section (usually in the same audio chip), so you amplify it adding noise and distortion, and then hooking it up to a more powerful amplifier will just amplify that same noise and distortion.

 

Basically, the thing is, an amplifier is usually the next most important thing after the headphone/speaker, but you need to send a clear, clean signal into it, hence those who need an amp get a DAC to go with it (or one device that has both a DAC and amp). If you don't even need an amplifier that much because whatever you are using isn't distorting well enough to be audible to you, then you don't need the amplifier; if you don't need the amp, a DAC won't really make things that much cleaner (not to mention that when you use the DAC, you'll have to get a headphone amp to make it work).

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by DefinitelyLegit /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

I'm really happy with the sound quality, but I've heard that having a good quality DAC can improve the sound quality by quite a margin, depending on the scenario (I mostly listen to music using my computer, a laptop with really bad audio and my LG G3, which seems to have pretty good sound quality).

 

Well here's one potential difference - the ODAC has a lot higher chance of working with the G3 through USB-OTG. The problem however is that as much as the ODAC is known to work with many Androids streaming digital audio to it, unless the G3 specifically is known to work, there's a chance it doesn't when you try it.

 

----

 

If you just want to improve the sound off your laptop primarily for not a lot of money, plus give you a convenient volume knob (rather than hot keys or scrolling to the corner, clicking on the speaker icon, then dragging the slider), and then maybe it might also work with your Android via USB OTG, why not just get a Fiio Q1? It has a DAC and headphone amplifier in it, is made for Androids (although still not 100% compatibility with all Androids), and it's relatively cheap.

 

http://www.amazon.de/FiiO-Q1-Mobiler-Kopfh%C3%B6rerverst%C3%A4rker/dp/B0157DKAU4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1454554613&sr=8-1&keywords=Fiio+Q1

 

[DefinitelyLegit]

   
The DAC you listed appears like it's expected to be use with a separate amplifer.
Not something to plug headphones directly into.
 
The most I would consider spend for a DAC (USB-DAC-amp) for driving the ATH-M50 (or M50X) is the FiiO E10K ($76).
 
For a low costing DAC for use with your headphones, this is a good value.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171769188894?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
There are so cheap, just order two, in case one breaks.

Would you need a amplifier to go along with that DAC, in order for it to work?
 
 
 

  Well, E10K is a tiny bit more clear than E07K. Both will work well in order to provide an overall consistent playback between your computer and laptop.
 
The main advantage of E07K vs E10K is that you can use it with your phone on the go (because it's a battery powered device), but in this case it can be used only as an amplifier (not a DAC), so it won't boost the the sound quality of your phone, it will just amplify what's already coming out from the phone.
 
Anyway, I'm pretty sure the LG G3 provides very good sound quality and I see no reason to add an amplifier in between to drive the very sensitive M50.

Can't you use the E07k as a DAC & amp when it's running on the battery? By connecting it to the G3 with a usb otg cable?

 

[DefinitelyLegit]

 

 

First off, the ODAC doesn't have a headphone jack. Just because it's a TRS jack doesn't mean it's always for a headphone. What it has is a line level out jack for feeding an external amplifier. Basically, the same kind of output as the other DAC, except that one has RCA.

 

Now, if you're referring to the single box O2+ODAC unit, that one has a headphone output, since the ODAC is in the same chassis as the O2 headphone amplifier. That version just has the ODAC module in place of the O2's battery, so you give up listening free of wall power to get a DAC in the same box.

 

As for performance, even just as a DAC device, that depends. The analog output section can introduce distortion, or its power supply lets a lot noise through. To be fair, some people encounter the latter with the ODAC depending on the quality of the USB port it's plugged into (or the mobo and PSU in the computer), something that is hard to totally avoid when you design a lower price DAC where one of the cost saving measures is to not give its own quality power supply. Not that the ODAC's USB power is really that bad, it's great compared to most USB-powered DACs, it's just that USB can pick up noise from the computer or have power issues than one that relies on wall power (or its own battery).

 

 

Well here's one potential difference - the ODAC has a lot higher chance of working with the G3 through USB-OTG. The problem however is that as much as the ODAC is known to work with many Androids streaming digital audio to it, unless the G3 specifically is known to work, there's a chance it doesn't when you try it.

 

----

 

If you just want to improve the sound off your laptop primarily for not a lot of money, plus give you a convenient volume knob (rather than hot keys or scrolling to the corner, clicking on the speaker icon, then dragging the slider), and then maybe it might also work with your Android via USB OTG, why not just get a Fiio Q1? It has a DAC and headphone amplifier in it, is made for Androids (although still not 100% compatibility with all Androids), and it's relatively cheap.

 

http://www.amazon.de/FiiO-Q1-Mobiler-Kopfh%C3%B6rerverst%C3%A4rker/dp/B0157DKAU4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1454554613&sr=8-1&keywords=Fiio+Q1

Wow thanks for all the information, you actually explained quite a lot of doubts I had about this topic. Do you think if I'm on a tight budget any of these upgrades are worthwhile?

 

[39points]

Never seen those DACs before, however most of the time DACs will make a small improvement in sound quality

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DefinitelyLegit /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Do you think if I'm on a tight budget any of these upgrades are worthwhile?

 

That's hard to tell. Usually the DAC either has a clearly darker tone than another, or sometimes one has a much lower output level. And then there's whether you can hear the changes - sometimes it only makes imaging more precise, but without making the soundstage any wider, and that's not audible for most let alone appreciate it for the expense. For the money though and you don't like the sound off your laptop vs your desktop and mobile device then the Q1 is likely good enough, on top of which you get a more accessible volume knob.

 

Of course that assumes the problem with your laptop is hardware - if it's using Beats Audio there's nothing you can really do about it but keep it running, since the way it works is that if you disable it, then that's when it's actually enabled, applying an EQ profile to deliberately screw up the sound. Basically, it's like paying the local mafia boss "protection" money so he won't smash your store to bits.

 

[DefinitelyLegit]

That's hard to tell. Usually the DAC either has a clearly darker tone than another, or sometimes one has a much lower output level. And then there's whether you can hear the changes - sometimes it only makes imaging more precise, but without making the soundstage any wider, and that's not audible for most let alone appreciate it for the expense. For the money though and you don't like the sound off your laptop vs your desktop and mobile device then the Q1 is likely good enough, on top of which you get a more accessible volume knob.

Of course that assumes the problem with your laptop is hardware - if it's using Beats Audio there's nothing you can really do about it but keep it running, since the way it works is that if you disable it, then that's when it's actually enabled, applying an EQ profile to deliberately screw up the sound. Basically, it's like paying the local mafia boss "protection" money so he won't smash your store to bits.

So if I had 100€ more or less to spend do you think trying another headphone would be a better choice? Something like the Grado sr80s?

 

[milosingh]

I'd say HD 558/598.

 

[DefinitelyLegit]

I'd say HD 558/598.

I know Grados tend to have a mid/high centric frequency response, what about Sennheisers? Are they more neutral than the grados?

 

[PurpleAngel]

  I know Grados tend to have a mid/high Centric frequency response, what about Sennheisers? Are they more neutral than the Grados?

 
My HD558 are slightly veiled, more like you hear the audio, but it's not an in your face type of sound.
Where I've heard the Grados are more like your in the front seats, of the concert.

 

[DefinitelyLegit]

   
My HD558 are slightly veiled, more like you hear the audio, but it's not an in your face type of sound.
Where I've heard the Grados are more like your in the front seats, of the concert.

So if I wanted the most different experience when compared to the M50s, do you guys think the Grados would be the better choice?