[Techfixation]

Hi all, this is my first post on this very informative and awesome site!
 
I'm someone who's not easily pleased when it comes to tech and I've been busy trawling these pages and numerous review sites looking for a great pair of wireless cans for late night movie watching.
 
I have been using an extension cord to hook up my Klipsch Image S4 in ear phones to the TV which work great but it's become a real pain having a cable trailing across the living room floor!
 
I first tried a pair of Sennheiser RS160's which utilize KLEER's lossless digital wireless audio transmission, this produces a better quality signal and most importantly hiss free audio (more on this in a moment).
 
I was more than disappointed in these Sennheisers especially as they get such great reviews! I found they were seriously lacking in bass and body and actually found them quite tinny an un-exciting even after decent burn in, the soundstage was good but they were a million miles away from the quality of my Klipsch S4's!
 
I sent the 160's back and ordered a pair of Sennheiser RS170's as they apparently had a better bass and even a bass boost setting which could improve the bass even further. The 170's were certainly a lot better than the 160's with much more fullness and a bit more warmth but they still lacked any real punch and they felt like a much much cheaper pair of phones compared to my very moderately priced S4's!
 
I was beginning to think this was just how 'Wireless' sound, due perhaps to a lack of power via a wired connection to an amp resulting in a lack of power to the sound!
 
I thought I'd give wireless one last chance and thought perhaps by upping my budget I might finally find what I was looking for. The next headphones I purchased were the SoundMAGIC WP10's which cost quite a bit more at £240 from Amazon compared to £90 for the 160's and £150 for the 170's. The SoundMAGIC's also utilize KLEER technology like the Sennheisers and like the Sennheisers the signal is virtually hiss free, although I did find the SoundMAGICS did seriously screw with my WiFi and did occasionally drop signal! They were however a decent step up in quality and had a much better sound than the Sennheisers and were also much better built and much better to look at. Unfortunately though they were still nowhere near as good as my S4's, with a lacking bass and still a bit of tinnyness!
 
It was then that I found a review for the August EP650 Bluetooth headphones, everything I was hearing about them sounded great and the best thing of all they were only £32 from Amazon and certainly worth a punt!
 
WOW these are the closest thing I've found to the Klipsch S4's...and they're wireless! The bass is amazing and seriously punchy, they certainly don't lack body or warmth, perhaps they could be a little more refined but they are still great for movies with a really exciting sound!
 
Now your probably thinking that I must have now come to the end of my quest for the perfect wireless movie headphones and at the amazing price of £32!! However the August EP650's have one small but still deal breaking flaw and this flaw is the very reason for not choosing Bluetooth in the first place....background hiss! 
 
The headphones I previously mentioned with KLEER technology have virtually no hiss at but from what I hear all Bluetooth headphones suffer from background hiss to varying degrees. Now when it comes to listening to music this hiss only really becomes noticeable between tracks or when the audio is paused so doesn't become too much of an issue. However while watching movies the hiss is far more noticeable, especially during spoken parts and it's really starting to become a major distraction!
 
This has got me thinking though that perhaps there are other Bluetooth Headphones out there with great sound but less hiss or even better no hiss??
 
A couple of threads have touched upon this background hiss but no ones compared which headphones are more prone than others. I’ve also heard many people mention they’re using Bluetooth headphones for watching movies but no ones complained of the hiss which I find strange as apparently some are really bad including the Beats Studio Wireless!
 
According to Bill-P the hiss is due to there not being enough negative feedback to suppress it. More negative feedback = more current to the circuit (this is independent of current to headphone) = less battery life. So it's more of a "battery life saving" feature.
 
 
I’ve shortlisted several Bluetooth headphones which I believe will be great for movies, I’m after phones with decent punchy bass and a warm sound, they also need to be comfortable as they’ll obviously be worn for several hours! Hopefully some of these don't have too much hiss?
 
The list is;
 
Philips Fidelio M2BT
 
Plantronics Backbeat PRO
 
Logitech UE9000
 
Harman Kardon BT
 
Sony MDR-XB950BT (modded)
 
Please let me know your thoughts on any of these cans and how much hiss they suffer from if any?
 
Special thanks goes out to Giogio who's been a great help in creating this shortlist with his fantastic thread on a Huge Comparison of [almost] all the best Bluetooth Headphones
 
 

 

[Giogio]

Hello and welcome to the Forum
 
You are right, most people (sad to admit, me too) do not pay too much attention to how big is the hiss with silence, as long as it is not too big.
I mean, with the Studio Wireless it was so big that it was really disturbing, and it was also audible with music playing.
But with most headphones which I have tried the hiss was just very very very low, even with silence.
Unfortunately, the silence in music is short, not as in TV, and the BT headphones turn their Amp (and so the hiss) off automatically after few seconds of silence.
So, I have never thought t was needed to test that further.
Besides, I have no TV.
And movies are not like TV, there is almost always noise and things going on.
 
I will do some tests with the headphones which I have here in this moment (or which I will receive in these days).
But, they are all much more expensive than what you have mentioned till now.
So, which kind of budget do you have?
And, you live in UK? (some headphones are cheaper in EU, like the Fidelio).
 
Some other people will have to help you with their headphones, I can only test: Fidelio m2BT, Audio Technica ATH-WS99BT, Akg Y45BT, Bang & Olufsen BeoPlay H8, Meelectronics Air-Fi Matrix 2, Pendulumic Stance S1+
And maybe the Plantronics Backbeat Pro, not sure if I can get them again or not.
They would be cool if you can get a Low Latency transmitter for your TV, because so you have zero delay between audio and video.
 
Which kind of transmitter do you use with your TV?
 
Anyway I think you will have more chances to get an answer if you post the question in the two most popular threads about BT headphones: mine, and the "High End Bluetooth Headphones".
There you find people with experiences with different headphones, all in one place.
 
Maybe you can make a shorter version of your question, skipping the beginning and directly asking which people to test the background hiss of their BT headphone during silence moments or with TV style audio.
 
Cheers

 

[cel4145]

I have no idea if these have your hiss problem, but they apparently have a good bit of bass: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/bluetooth-headphoneheadset-survey-review-scosche-rh1060

 

[Giogio]

So, I have tested for you the ones I have here.
The result are in my thread, so that they can help other people too:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/746519/huge-comparison-of-almost-all-the-best-bluetooth-headphones-post-your-own-comparisons-here/345#post_11395398

 

[Techfixation]

Thanks Giogio for your reply! : )
 
If I could find the perfect phones with barely noticeable hiss I'd happily pay up to £250.
 
Yes I live in the UK and probably top of my list at the moment are the Fidelio, I'd love to get the Audio Technica ATH-WS99BT but they seem almost impossible to get without having them shipped from Japan through eBay...this would make them difficult to return though!
 
I'm also really interested in the Sony MDR-XB950BT as I really like the look and I hear they're really comfy! Apparently once modded they're really good!
 
The Logitech's also seem good but again they're difficult to get hold of and they are quite old.
 
You mentioned the Harman Kardon BT's were really good, with plenty of bass and quite comfortable, and I quite like the look too so they're definitely contenders??
 
I'm using a Avantree Saturn Pro transmitter which has Aptx and Low Latency although I think the headphones also need to support Low Latency for it to work? I actually don't see much delay anyway so this isn't too much of an issue.
 
I seriously think you should try the August EP650's....I know they're certainly not premium but I think you might be surprised by their sound!
 
Thanks for posting my question in your thread, I aim to put a shortened version if this into there too like you suggested!

 

[Techfixation]

Thanks cel4145, I'll give those a look!

 

[Giogio]

Hmmm, I will try to get those August, thanks for the suggestion.
 
For the hiss test I will get the Fidelio again in these days, and the Pendulumic, and maybe also the Plantronics (which are the only ones which support Low Latency Aptx, fyi. They also have a good bass, with a bit boost that for movies is good, but they could have a bit too much treble and not enough mids and warmth for movies. And although the wonderful soundstage is a plus, the vocals get a bit in the background compared to the Audio Tecnica, and this may not be optimal for movies with lot of dialogue).
The Sony, dunno. Maybe modded. Actually, maybe even not modded, if it is just for movies. You can push the bass boost button when you have action movies, and take it away for dialogues.
They lack highs, and upper mids too, for music is bad, but if you see how most theaters sound, they boost bass and low mids. So, as long as it is only for TV, it could work.
The UE would be good, they have rolled off highs, good for a feeling of warmth, and for avoiding harshness. And the bass is very good. The fact that they are old is not a problem. But they are a bit heavy. I think for one film is ok, for two you could feel them like too much.
The Audio Technica maybe you can get them from yodobashi.com, write them (you must translate the page to english to look for the contact), they ship internationally, but I do not know if they offer a return policy. I have got them from a guy in Rakuten, but he does not offer return. Good, because I am not going to return them
In ebay the return policies are different in every country, so you should ask Ebay UK which kind of protection you have.
But they have also a problem of comfort due to thin pads and protruding drivers. Ears touch the drivers. So, unless your ears are very flat near the skull, you will have to buy replacement pads.
So at the end, between the raw cost of the headphones, the shipping, the Custom Taxes, and the new earpads, you are at least at 350 or 400 Euro.
Is it worth? Only you knows.
For me, only for movies, NO.
For music, YES.
Pity that the Jabra Revo are not Aptx. The sound is perfect for movies. But they have delay.
The Harman Kardon would be ok for the sound. I do not remember the hiss, sorry.
 
Cheers

 

[Giogio]

what did you do finally?

 

[Techfixation]

what did you do finally?

Sorry, been meaning to post an update!

I was going to try the Philips as from what you say they have the sort of sound I'm after especially a decent bass which is very important to me as I'll be using them to watch a lot of action based movies. However I was a little concerned about the comfort as I'll be using them for prolonged periods and I wasn't sure whether 'on ear' was the way to go!

I would have also liked to try the Audio Technica as they're over ear but they weren't easily available and I may have struggled to return them! I also had the same issue with the Logitechs which is a shame as I really wanted to try them!

I ended up getting the Sony XB950's and the Urbanites to make a comparison along side my August EP650's.

The urbanites actually had the worst hiss of all and sounded a bit clinical with not much warmth and a slightly lacking bass in my opinion!

The Sonys on the other hand, to me sounded pretty incredible! I agree the mids needed a lot of improvement but watching through a few action based movies put a huge smile on my face as I experienced the intense power of these cans!

They also have the least hiss of all, there is still a slight hiss but in some ways the hiss sounds cleaner and less distracting!

I gave the Sonys around 150 hours of burn in to see if I could hear any improvement before trying Bill-P's mods. They definitely opened up and the mids improved to a point where I'd be more than happy using them for movies but I decided to still give the mods a go to see if I could improve them further!

I started off by doing stage 1 and 2 of the mods but without covering the bass port from within or using the felt and foam to cover the bass port from the outside! This improved them slightly giving a little tighter bass so I decided to go back and just use the felt on the inside and not the foam....and wow! The soundstage improved dramatically the mids and highs were lifted to what I concider a perfect balance!

Unfortunately though the bass did take a slight hit and after playing back through a couple of tester films, I found the moments that had made me smile so much the first time just didn't have the same impact! I decided to take the felt out from the inside and place it where Bill-P suggests to put the foam. Although this doesn't improve the soundstage or mids to anywhere near as much as adding the felt to the inside, it does improve them slightly while still retaining the powerful bass! To me this Gave the best compromise between mids soundstage and bass!

I seem to have finally found the wireless movie cans I've been looking for!

I am experiencing something strange though, which I've found with every Bluetooth headphone I've tried along with 2 different Bluetooth transmitters!

If I have the headphones on anything lower than max volume and sometimes even with them at max volume I get distorted sound at the very highest and lowest frequencies and the lower the volume on the headphones the worse the distortion becomes! Even if the source volume is low the headphones sound becomes terrible when their internal amplifier is too low!

The problem is that a have to have the source at a certain volume otherwise during very quiet scenes the headphones/transmitter cut off as they think there's no sound! This means I can't always have the headphones on max volume and during explosions etc I get the distortion even though I know the headphones can handle it!

Any ideas?

 

[Giogio]

Hmmm. No. No idea. Movies are a very different beast than music.
 
What was the reason why you did not want the Plantronics or the Pendulumic?

 

[Techfixation]

Hmmm. No. No idea. Movies are a very different beast than music.

What was the reason why you did not want the Plantronics or the Pendulumic?

It didn't sound although either of these two would have enough bass and the Plantronics not enough warmth.

I was also a little worried about the build quality of the Pendulumic's and wasn't really taken by the design, although I know you really like their look! I can see why people would be quite devided by their design!

I'm really happy with the Sonys and find they fit my need almost perfectly! I don't think any other Bluetooth headphone can match their power and for action based movies they can give quite a special experience! In some ways I'm almost enjoying them more than my high end cinema setup!....however it's rare I'm ever able to fully utilise the loud speakers as I don't want to fall out with the neighbours!

It's probably worth mentioning that when I'm describing the Sonys sound with and without mods I'm using them with bass boost turned on! I find that without bass boost the bass isn't quite enough and it feels a little hollow although the mids are definitely improved!

I honestly believe though that after the mods and a decent burn in that most audiophiles would be quite impressed especially for the price! They really open up and everything improves including the lacking soundstage, mids and highs!

After the mods and burn in I've heard people comparing them to the Sony MDR-1Rbt Mk2's but with better bass and at a fraction of the price!

 

[Giogio]

The plantronics has got plenty of bass. I would be very much surprised if you would find they lack bass.
They are not "warm" but they do not lack warmth. They just do not have warmth as a peculiar quality, because they rather push the highs.
I like them for videos due to their very good soundstage.
Pendulumic is warmer and has got, yes, less bass, but not lacking bass. It has got less soundstage too, but once again, still a good one.
The XB950 I remember have almost no soundstage, may be?
But I am not surprised that with bass boost they rock.
And I am surely happy that you decided to try the mods.

 

[Randolph Duke]

Have you tried the new Sennheiser RS175(closed)  and or the RS185 (open) ?
 
They really are quite something. No hiss. Excellent sound for a wireless- great range with no drop out- and very comfortable.
 
My only complaint- They do not decode Dolby Digital or DTS. You have to feed them PCM. 
The RS185's also have an analog RCA input which work great for sending it a 2 channel signal (Vinyl)
 
Anyone else try these?

 

[Techfixation]

Have you tried the new Sennheiser RS175(closed)  and or the RS185 (open) ?

They really are quite something. No hiss. Excellent sound for a wireless- great range with no drop out- and very comfortable.

My only complaint- They do not decode Dolby Digital or DTS. You have to feed them PCM. 
The RS185's also have an analog RCA input which work great for sending it a 2 channel signal (Vinyl)

Anyone else try these?

What's the bass like? The 160's and 170's were severely lacking!

 

[Randolph Duke]

What's the bass like? The 160's and 170's were severely lacking!

 
Sound is deep and rich.
The RS175 has a Bass boost and it's really strong.
I demoed it with The Avengers. During the big Hulk scene bass was like a kick in the head.
(Actually,IMO-  bass is fine without it. I'd say it's good and neutral. But the boost is there if you want it and it makes for some real fun during the action films.)
 
I ultimately went with the RS185's because it suits my universal needs at the moment.
(I also use them for Music. I like the analog input and open soundstage)
But I kind of wish I could have both.
I would prefer the RS175's for movies due to the bass boost.