[Ordeith]

Hey all,

I have been out of the loop for a while, and "upgrade-itis" is setting in. That's easy of course, because my current PC setup is Sennheiser Gaming One headphones, plugged into my motherboard's mic/line out ports.

But my portable audio setup is still an iPod Nano -> custom ALO cable -> RSA Tomahawk -> UE 10 Pro Customs.

So, 1: how can I achieve fantastic output sound on my PC? I'm happy to still use the UE 10 Pro Customs. I would love to find a "high end" DAC (are USB DACs in this category) that I could use for both mic input, and audio output to my IEMs.

If I have that ^ wrong, any ideas? Would I need, e.g., to get a sound card first for better source to an eventual DAC? If so, any recommendations?

I have to get surgery on my right ear since I have 'otosclerosis' and severe hearing loss/tinnitus. Though the above would be my primary sound output (by far), is there, 2: a DAC that could have: mic, headphone, speaker in one? And then, I'd be looking for a "good" PC desktop setup - 2 speakers, doesn't need 2.1 (the subwoofer - I live in an NYC apartment). But I'd like to be able to not use my headphones for the weeks/months after the surgery, and just put on some nice music while I do the never-ending work from home, like many of you do I'm sure.

I think before people used to ask for budgets: I'd be fine spending probably up to 3000 or so, for the DAC, speakers and mic (I'm thinking the Shure SM7B - so if this can plug into the DAC that would be great). But I'm flexible - if it can be done well for less - great. If there's 'hanging fruit' I can get by increasing the budget I'm happy to as well.

Thanks, and sorry for the long post. My wallet is ready!

 

[VNandor]

The only advice I have is to not worry about getting the absolute best speakers you can if you don't plan to install some room treatment to go with it. Spending too much money or effort on it would be pointless because the best sound you can get without room treatment is "good enough" anyways.

 

[Roseval]

a DAC that could have: mic, headphone, speaker in one?

No, a DAC does the D(igital to)A(nalog) conversion, a mic has analog out by design.
If you want one that does it all look at pro-interfaces (AD/DA) like
Motu: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...u-ultralite-mk5-review-audio-interface.24777/
A good DAC: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...version-2-dac-and-headphone-amp-review.13379/

Have a look at active speakers by Genelec, Adams, etc.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds/genelec-8330a-review-studio-monitor.25704/

 

[Average Frequency]

Quality PC audio is definitely possible. But you are not only looking to get audio out of the pc, but also into it via a microphone of your choice. That complicates matters. In that case you cannot suffice with a USB-dac (like the RME ADI-2 DAC fs) but you need an audio interface. An audio interface has a number of audio inputs and outputs, usually has a headphone output and usually a number of microphone inputs. Some of them also offer various digital in- and outputs.

But the microphone you mention, the Shure SM7B, is extremely insensitive. There aren't many audio interfaces that can amplify it to high enough levels for speech. Usually it is used with either a separate microphone preamp (e.g. Focusrite ISA one) or a "mic activator" (e.g. Cloudlifter). If you're not prepared to do that, look for an audio interface which microphone preamps have at least +70 dB gain. (They are rare and expensive.)

But personally, unless you are a professional caster I'd suggest you to buy a condenser mic (they don't need specialized preamps and work fine with any audio interface) or even a USB-microphone. It makes things much easier and for online gaming there won't be a difference at all. In fact, many professional Twitch streamers and Youtube creators use USB microphones...

Seeing as you also want to use a custom IEM, you are looking at a really low output resistance headphone amp. It's hard to find specifics on audio interface headphone preamps, and i guess there aren't any that were designed specifically for IEM's.

TLDR: my advice is that you look at the RME ADI-2 DAC fs for supreme audio output with a great headphone output and a dedicated IEM output, and add a USB-microphone.

 

[Ordeith]

Thanks for the detailed feedback.

On the RME ADI-2 DAC - I had even posted in the thread here on Head-Fi and have been looking into that for a while. I am getting into "casting" and want to be "open" to transitioning to that, so was even thinking of the Sennheiser MKH 416 mic.

Let's say I get the RME ADI-2 DAC, use my custom IEMs, and get 2x Genelec 8330As. It is fine to feed the 2x Genelec 8330As from the RME ADI-2 DAC, right? So PC -> USB -> ADI-2 DAC -> Speakers / Custom IEMs.

On the mic setup, since this is so important for casting, I suppose I could just buy a separate interface for that. I'll start looking at some condenser mics (USB) to see if I can simplify this a bit, but I do have to say that I really would like to have nice input (and that ability to ignore background noise like mechanical keyboard clacks...) and so on from the get-go.

 

[Average Frequency]

On the RME ADI-2 DAC - I had even posted in the thread here on Head-Fi and have been looking into that for a while. I am getting into "casting" and want to be "open" to transitioning to that, so was even thinking of the Sennheiser MKH 416 mic.

That mic sounds like overkill for starting out.

Let's say I get the RME ADI-2 DAC, use my custom IEMs, and get 2x Genelec 8330As. It is fine to feed the 2x Genelec 8330As from the RME ADI-2 DAC, right? So PC -> USB -> ADI-2 DAC -> Speakers / Custom IEMs.

Yes, the ADI-2 DAC can feed any active monitors directly from the balanced outputs on the back. I have it playing on Neumann KH80.

On the mic setup, since this is so important for casting, I suppose I could just buy a separate interface for that. I'll start looking at some condenser mics (USB) to see if I can simplify this a bit, but I do have to say that I really would like to have nice input (and that ability to ignore background noise like mechanical keyboard clacks...) and so on from the get-go.

The more expensive the mic, the better it will pick up sounds like mechanical keyboard clacks, PC fans, coil whine and cars passing by. In fact, mechanical keyboards are a no go for casting for this reason alone... It is a myth that some microphones magically reject everything but the sound of your voice. Some types of mic are better at it then others, but every mic would pick up the clacking of a mechanical keyboard.

If you really want to use a separate mic, I suggest getting an audio interface with coaxial s/pdif out. That would simplify things in that you only have the one audio interface to configure in Windows. Then you can send the audio to the s/pdif output and connect that to the DAC of your choice. Perhaps look at the Focusrite Clarett 4pre - it's a mighty impressive piece of engineering with a good DAC and two powerful headphone outputs. Might be that you don't need the ADI-2 after hearing it. (I had one and found that it sounds really good and has impressively stable and fast drivers.)

Can I suggest that you test the DPC latency of your system? If it's too high, you will get dropouts in your audio streams, even when using a high end audio interface. LatencyMon v 7.00 is free and running that for 15 minutes (while your pc idles) will tell you if your machine is suitable for real-time audio.

 

[Ordeith]

That mic sounds like overkill for starting out.


Yes, the ADI-2 DAC can feed any active monitors directly from the balanced outputs on the back. I have it playing on Neumann KH80.


The more expensive the mic, the better it will pick up sounds like mechanical keyboard clacks, PC fans, coil whine and cars passing by. In fact, mechanical keyboards are a no go for casting for this reason alone... It is a myth that some microphones magically reject everything but the sound of your voice. Some types of mic are better at it then others, but every mic would pick up the clacking of a mechanical keyboard.

If you really want to use a separate mic, I suggest getting an audio interface with coaxial s/pdif out. That would simplify things in that you only have the one audio interface to configure in Windows. Then you can send the audio to the s/pdif output and connect that to the DAC of your choice. Perhaps look at the Focusrite Clarett 4pre - it's a mighty impressive piece of engineering with a good DAC and two powerful headphone outputs. Might be that you don't need the ADI-2 after hearing it. (I had one and found that it sounds really good and has impressively stable and fast drivers.)

Can I suggest that you test the DPC latency of your system? If it's too high, you will get dropouts in your audio streams, even when using a high end audio interface. LatencyMon v 7.00 is free and running that for 15 minutes (while your pc idles) will tell you if your machine is suitable for real-time audio.

Thanks. Considering I have a 5950X, a 3090Ti, 32gb of fast RAM, and only SSDs, I'm surprised at the result on LatencyMonv 7.00 (attached). My PC is fairly "beastly" so I wonder what it means by "other tasks". Any ideas?

The attraction of the ADI-2 is partly that it has a fantastic IEM specific connection. I think if I focus on that, and the two speakers, I can try to treat the mic a bit separately as you say. Let's focus on the latency part, and then the headphone/speaker. I'm still considering the mic path, those USB condenser mics don't seem so bad.

 

[Average Frequency]

DPC latency is caused by Windows drivers, usually for one of the components on your motherboard. Oftentimes it's wireless network drivers, which is fairly easy to diagnose by just turning wireless off and running LatencyMon again. Turning off advanced power management in BIOS (C states, speedstep etc.) can also help tremendously, at the cost of higher power usage. It used to be that nVidia drivers caused a whole lot of DPC latency, but since the 7xx series I haven't run into issues myself.

But quite often it's impossible to fix DPC latency errors since it's down to the manufacturers to solve them. When I still did music production on my PC, I used to avoid the issue by buying the motherboard with the lowest measured DPC latency in reviews. This always resulted in my machines having some of the lowest DPC latencies possible, simple as that. But your numbers don't seem catastrophic, and you might still be fine for live streaming. But if you analyze your VOD's and you notice crackling or pops in the audio stream, then this is where you should look first.

I can't speak to the IEM output of the ADI-2, but the DAC part and the headphone out are entirely to my liking. It's clean and neutral, very detailed, but at the same time really musical and never fatiguing. (Unless the headphones are fatiguing.) RME has always been known to write the best USB drivers in the business, they work reliably at really low buffer sizes. And then there's the feature set, like the remote control, the cool display that can be turned off at will, the built-in 5 band EQ, the extra 2 bass and treble shelve EQ, crossfeed, etc. It's the best DAC I ever had.

 

[redrol]

If you really want to fix this, you need to set the CPU to NOT change speed. Fix it at whatever frequency you feel comfortable with. For myself I use Windows Pro for Workstations which has a Ultimate performance mode which basically turns off all power saving, sets the CPU to max speed, and does some back ground stuffs to make sure windows doesn't attempt to actually save any power whatsoever.

My latency is around 100us.

 

[Ordeith]

Okay I fixed LatencyMon issues - the 'highest reported DPC routine execution time' is still ntoskrnl.exe at 951.410. Interestingly, my desktop was set to "balanced" in the power settings.

Why this would be a "default" setting in Windows 10 for such a powerful PC is beyond me. Now in the 'performance' setting, the CPU power is set to 100 at all times. I have to say this is disappointing - I would expect this behavior in a laptop, but NOT on a desktop, where I want no-compromise performance.

Okay, seems like I'll order the ADI-2 soon, and two speakers - those Neumann's look quite interesting too. I'm in a fairly small room - so I don't need too much power. Here, quality is key.

I have been looking at some usb condenser mic reviews - even the Shure SM7B doesn't seem to do so well. I know it's a lot cheaper than the Sennheiser I mentioned, but I do want to 'get a good start', too. Any tips?

 

[Average Frequency]

When it comes to speakers, I'd advise you to listen in person. I bought the Neumann KH80 blind, since I had some of their (bigger) speakers before. And they are fantastic for mixing and mastering, but when it comes to leisurely listening pleasure I find them a bit lacking. They are almost too clean, neutral and analytical and they lean on the cold side of things. Now that I no longer write or produce music, I'm thinking of selling them and getting something that's still quite revealing, but a bit warmer and a bit more fun. (Probably Focal Shape.)

The SM7B is a beast of a mic that works really well for a variety of male and female vocals. But as I said before, it needs proper amplification and that makes it a costly endeavor. I used to have one but it was my only mic. I used some other mics in people's studio's, but it's really not my area of expertise. A good place to ask for mic advice would be gearspace.com, all the studio techies are over there and they generally know very well what they are talking about. If you write a post there where you explain clearly what purpose your mic should serve, I'm sure you'll get many appropriate suggestions. You could also try asking around in Twitch chat - most streamers will gladly tell you what mic they're using.

I get that you want a good start, but recording is a skill that takes time to learn and you could end up very frustrated if you don't get your intended results with the expensive mic. Besides, many a famous streamer isn't using the most expensive mic. They might however be using a very expensive light and camera, use at least one Elgato Stream Deck, etc.

PS did you know there is an "ultimate performance" Windows power plan?
https://www.howtogeek.com/368781/how-to-enable-ultimate-performance-power-plan-in-windows-10/

 

[redrol]

Okay I fixed LatencyMon issues - the 'highest reported DPC routine execution time' is still ntoskrnl.exe at 951.410. Interestingly, my desktop was set to "balanced" in the power settings.

Why this would be a "default" setting in Windows 10 for such a powerful PC is beyond me. Now in the 'performance' setting, the CPU power is set to 100 at all times. I have to say this is disappointing - I would expect this behavior in a laptop, but NOT on a desktop, where I want no-compromise performance.

Okay, seems like I'll order the ADI-2 soon, and two speakers - those Neumann's look quite interesting too. I'm in a fairly small room - so I don't need too much power. Here, quality is key.

I have been looking at some usb condenser mic reviews - even the Shure SM7B doesn't seem to do so well. I know it's a lot cheaper than the Sennheiser I mentioned, but I do want to 'get a good start', too. Any tips?

The thing is, laptops can't control this like desktops. You could go into the BIOS for example and turn off all C states for the CPU. This means they run at base freqency no matter what windows decides to do. There are many many tweaks in the BIOS on a proper aftermarket desktop system. If you are really serious you can't use certain video cards, wifi, Bluetooth, extra features on the motherboard like temperature and fan adjustment via program. All those things can and do add up to more overall latency. Does it matter? Really only for studio work with a DAW which is what I use.

 

[Ordeith]

@redrol - thanks. I seem to be okay, for my use case, with the proper power plan in place. But if I get any lag I'll start taking more of a look at those tweaks.

@Average Frequency - thanks as well. I mean, I speak with a lot of streamers. Those that have 'higher end inputs' like the MKH416, are also knowledgeable about plugins, and many other aspects of their setup. They do sound much better than other streamers, many of whom use: https://www.bluemic.com/en-us/products/yeti-x/ , and swear by this as a good start for me. I'm thinking about it.

I'll take a look at some speakers this week - hope to find good options to demo them in NYC. I should be ordering the ADI 2 DAC later today as well. It...begins

 

[redrol]

@redrol - thanks. I seem to be okay, for my use case, with the proper power plan in place. But if I get any lag I'll start taking more of a look at those tweaks.

@Average Frequency - thanks as well. I mean, I speak with a lot of streamers. Those that have 'higher end inputs' like the MKH416, are also knowledgeable about plugins, and many other aspects of their setup. They do sound much better than other streamers, many of whom use: https://www.bluemic.com/en-us/products/yeti-x/ , and swear by this as a good start for me. I'm thinking about it.

I'll take a look at some speakers this week - hope to find good options to demo them in NYC. I should be ordering the ADI 2 DAC later today as well. It...begins

Thats a killer overkill dac, lol. Im sure it will work perfectly.

 

[Average Frequency]

I have been looking at some usb condenser mic reviews - even the Shure SM7B doesn't seem to do so well. I know it's a lot cheaper than the Sennheiser I mentioned, but I do want to 'get a good start', too. Any tips?

Funny that just now I came across a Youtube review channel that focuses on streaming. Reviews mics, mic preamps and audio interfaces. Perhaps you can find what you're looking for here:

https://www.youtube.com/c/Podcastage/videos