[shima]

Having just invested in my first headphones, i now realise, just how much hiss is in the background of my Coltrane and Davis albums. Any recommendations for superior recordings of these or other artists??
thanks

 

[jaduffy007]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shima /img/forum/go_quote.gif Having just invested in my first headphones, i now realise, just how much hiss is in the background of my Coltrane and Davis albums. Any recommendations for superior recordings of these or other artists?? thanks

LP or CD? I'll assume CD. Most of the reissues (remasters) are a big improvement over the first digital releases. If you already have the latest remasters...I don't know what to tell ya. If not,
Just one example: COLTRANE The Classic Quartet: Complete Impulse! Studio Recordings [BOX SET]
Amazon.com: COLTRANE The Classic Quartet: Complete Impulse! Studio Recordings: Music: John Coltrane

With the box set, everything is remastered. Sound quality is much improved. Most of the individual albums are available as remasters as well. My only problem with the box set approach is ...sometimes they change the song sequences from the original. This is true of the Coltrane box set above. *I* want to hear the album as the artist intended, plus I like having the original album artwork and liner notes. I just rip the box set discs into iTunes and recreate the individual albums as playlists using artwork I find off the web.

There are many Miles remasters too...either in box sets or individual discs. "Sony Legacy" especially.
Example: The Miles Davis Quintet, 1965-68: The Complete Columbia Studio
or
Amazon.com: 'Round About Midnight: Music: Miles Davis

You can also look to "audiophile" companies like Mosaic for excellent sound quality in CD and LP formats. Mosaic is an OUTSTANDING resource for classic jazz.
Mosaic Records, Jazz CDs, Jazz LPs, Duke Ellington, Django Reinhardt, Blue Note

Good resource:
All About Jazz | Jazz Music, Clubs and Culture
Check out their New / Upcoming Releases pages which include "reissues". A lot of Coltrane coming from WEA Japan in February 08, for example.

Lastly...Blue Note reissues by Rudy Van Gelder, the master himself. Most of these are essential for any jazz library. Hank Mobley, Herbie Hancock, Freddie Hubbard, Joe Henderson, Lee Morgan, Sonny Clark, Jackie McLean, Eric Dolphy, Cannonball Adderley, Andrew Hill, etc, etc, etc. Just awesome...the golden age for jazz.
Rudy Van Gelder remaster list from Amazon:
Amazon.com Message

Now...if the OJC catalog gets busy remastering, we'll have plenty of great sounding music to keep us happy.

Edit: Hiss could be equipment related....

 

[Arainach]

Amazon.com: Waltz for Debby: Music: Bill Evans

The latest CD master, which is considerably cheaper, is excellent. The SACD one is supposed to have less hiss, but to be honest I can't notice that much in the CD one to begin with. I've got the SACD master coming in the mail to compare eventually, however. Everyone raves over both the CD and SACD masters, so I highly reccomend picking one up.

 

[jaduffy007]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arainach /img/forum/go_quote.gif Amazon.com: Waltz for Debby: Music: Bill Evans The latest CD master, which is considerably cheaper, is excellent. The SACD one is supposed to have less hiss, but to be honest I can't notice that much in the CD one to begin with. I've got the SACD master coming in the mail to compare eventually, however. Everyone raves over both the CD and SACD masters, so I highly reccomend picking one up.

I'm a Bill Evans fanatic. I have the Analog Productions remaster of "Waltz"...sounds awesome, but I would love to hear the SACD version.

Once I'm back in the States, I'm getting the Bill Evans: The Complete Village Vanguard Recordings, 1961. I want everything of Bill and Lafaro I can get my hands on. Also, Motian has said their earlier sessions in the week were *better* than the final Sunday session. Wow.

 

[LFF]

Hiss is our friend! You never want to completely eliminate it!!!

The OJC catalog is some of the best sounding jazz you can get. Almost all of the OJC's are straight transfers from the master tapes and they sound great. Get them while you can!

The RVG remasters are horrible. Avoid them. Get the OJC releases or buy the vinyl. Another alternative - buy the SACD's from Analog Productions.

EDIT:

Mosaic, JSP, and Chesky are all fantastic labels as well. DCC and MFSL are great as well but are pricey. Give the OJC catalog a shot. Sound is right, price is right - you can't go wrong.

 

[jaduffy007]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFF /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hiss is our friend! You never want to completely eliminate it!!! The OJC catalog is some of the best sounding jazz you can get. Almost all of the OJC's are straight transfers from the master tapes and they sound great. Get them while you can! The RVG remasters are horrible. Avoid them. Get the OJC releases or buy the vinyl. Another alternative - buy the SACD's from Analog Productions. EDIT: Mosaic, JSP, and Chesky are all fantastic labels as well. DCC and MFSL are great as well but are pricey. Give the OJC catalog a shot. Sound is right, price is right - you can't go wrong.

Hiss is my friend? RVG remasters are horrible??? Could you be more specific? Most of them are awesome. The Herbie Hancock "Maiden Voyage" and "Speak Like A Child" were disappointing, but all of the others I own (a lot) are great unless you're comparing to a mint copy of the original LP, which costs a small fortune each.

What do *you* mean by "straight transfers from the master tapes" versus....?

It's hard for me to understand how anyone could suggest "avoiding":

Cannonball Adderley: Somethin' Else
Hank Mobley: Soul Station, Work Out, Roll Call
Herbie Hancock: Maiden Voyage, Speak Like A Child, Empyrean Isles
Lee Morgan: Sidewinder, Search For A New Land
Sonny Clark: Cool Struttin', Sonny's Crib
Wayne Shorter: Speak No Evil
Dexter Gordon: Go!, A Swingin' Affair, Our Man In Paris
Joe Henderson: Inner Urge, Page One, Our Thing
Jackie McLean: It's Time, Right Now!, Let Freedom Ring, Jacknife
Horace Silver: Song For My Father, The Cape Of Verdean Blues
Grant Green: Idle Moments
Freddie Hubbard: Ready For Freddie, Open Sesame, Here To Stay
Eric Dolphy: Out To Lunch
Art Blakey: Moanin', Free For All, A Night In Tunisia, A Night At Birdland 1 & 2, The Big Beat
McCoy Tyner: The Real McCoy
Andrew Hill: Point Of Departure, Black Fire, Judgement

The albums above are just off the top of my head, so I'm sure I'm leaving off some gems. Only a handful of these are available via Analogue Productions, etc on LP or SACD. Eliminating these albums would SEVERELY gut the "Top 100 Jazz albums of All Time" lists from jazz historians and critics. Excuse me, make that the "Top 50". Almost all of the RVG remasters are Blue Note releases, not OJC. MANY have been out of print for DECADES. Obviously, I strongly disagree with you.

Edit: In case someone might be interested in hearing more about RVG and these remasters, please see:
Rudy Van Gelder

 

[Davey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaduffy007 /img/forum/go_quote.gif RVG remasters are horrible??? Could you be more specific? Most of them are awesome.

Yea, I wouldn't call them horrible, but I much prefer his original style of mastering with the wide and airy instrument spread. Compare what Classic Records gets out of Somethin' Else on the 24/96 DVD as opposed to the reduced soundstage on the RVG remaster. The Classic sounds like you are there, 50 years ago and in the middle of an amazing performance, like a time machine. The RVG may sound like what Rudy remembers, and it's not bad, but it doesn't put me there.

Some of them are very good, even though I do tend to prefer the more lush masterings of the past by MoFi and others. You have to take it on a case by case basis. Some amazing music, we can all agree on that!

 

[jsaliga]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaduffy007 /img/forum/go_quote.gif RVG remasters are horrible???

I too take issue with that as a blanket statement. I have most of the RVG remasters and there were no doubt some problems when the series first started. But those issues are long behind us and this is one of the few remaster series that I consider to be very much worthwhile.

--Jerome

 

[LFF]

Well - I guess horrible is too strong a word. They are ok. I wouldn't call them great. The ones I have heard have sounded cold and unmusical and some were too bright or mastered too hot.

His original style of mastering was amazing. I'm not impressed with his current style though. The music is GREAT but there are often better alternatives to the RVG remasters. Yes, some are OOP, but there is vinyl.

Hiss is our friend. If we don't hear it, something is wrong. If we hear too much of it, something is wrong. Hiss guides me when I am mastering/remastering. PM me if you want to hear more.

Compare any of the great recordings you listed to the vinyl and you'll hear the difference. However, I can see how they can be attractive to a modern audience - especially if they don't have access to the vinyl.

I never said RVG releases could be found on OJC. I merely wanted to point out that OJC's are quality jazz recordings and are a great alternative. They are straight transfers from the master tapes versus...say...getting no-noised or improperly EQ'd by others.

 

[jsaliga]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFF /img/forum/go_quote.gif The ones I have heard have sounded cold and unmusical and some were too bright or mastered too hot.

Would you mind providing some context for your comments by telling us just how many of the RVG remasters you have heard and what year they were remastered?

Thanks.

--Jerome

 

[jaduffy007]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFF /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well - I guess horrible is too strong a word. They are ok. I wouldn't call them great. The ones I have heard have sounded cold and unmusical and some were too bright or mastered too hot. His original style of mastering was amazing. I'm not impressed with his current style though. The music is GREAT but there are often better alternatives to the RVG remasters. Yes, some are OOP, but there is vinyl. Hiss is our friend. If we don't hear it, something is wrong. If we hear too much of it, something is wrong. Hiss guides me when I am mastering/remastering. PM me if you want to hear more. Compare any of the great recordings you listed to the vinyl and you'll hear the difference. However, I can see how they can be attractive to a modern audience - especially if they don't have access to the vinyl. I never said RVG releases could be found on OJC. I merely wanted to point out that OJC's are quality jazz recordings and are a great alternative. They are straight transfers from the master tapes versus...say...getting no-noised or improperly EQ'd by others.

Well, I guess if you have the HUGE money for original pressings of the vinyl. Yes, the vinyl will win in SQ...AND...you *might* create a decent selection of "clean" Blue Notes IN A LIFETIME.

Considering your response, I'm curious what your experience is as a recording engineer. I've worked along side people from LA Reid to Bernie Grundman. Saying you use "hiss as a guide" in remastering...well... I think I'll just be nice and let this slide.

A modern audience? The recording equipment of studios today is in another universe in terms of SQ compared to RVG's day. Even compared to the late 80's. RVG only had *ONE* speaker to mix on !!!!!!!!!!! The massive advances in tech make it difficult for me to accept he can't do a MUCH better job today than the early / mid-60s.

Digital *should* sound better than LP *now*. Classical and jazz have never sounded better. Pressing modern recordings to LP is not the answer. SACD, etc, etc is the answer.

I agree, the OJC's do sound good...especially on vinyl. Nothing exceptional about OJC though. Definitely not great by today's standards. I suggest...listen to Mulgrew Miller's Live at the Kennedy Center on CD 16/44 and compare to ANY version of Bill Evans' Live at the VV...LP, SACD, whatever. Whole other world of "being there", accurancy, etc, etc. to the Mulgrew Miller, modern recording.

Another example is the SACD releases of the Living Stereo recordings. Many used three channels. Only NOW, will we hear the "real deal". Again, I do love vinyl for the old stuff, but let's not become blind to its serious shortcomings.

My main objection to your suggestion regarding OJC is that you call it an alternative to the Blue Notes. Despite some awesome(!) music on OJC...as a body of work, it's not the equal of the 60s Blue Note stuff. Not that it is an "either or" per se...but you *do* seem to dismiss a truly seminal body of jazz music (Blue Note) based on format or squibbles about SQ. The vibe is, "if it ain't vinyl, it sucks."

It reminds me of when my girlfriend in 1992 said to me (short version)...as I listened to my $25k system at the time (fully loaded Linn LP12 btw)....(system is long gone)...and I kept commenting on soundstaging, etc, etc. She said, "you enjoyed music more when you only had the $1200 NAD/Snell system. Now you listen to the system." She was right. Wisdom imo.

 

[shima]

These responses are fascinating, thanks. I'm loving exploring music at this depth, haven't had the opportunity prior to investing in hi fi equipment. Have only recently discovered Jazz to be honest. Now i find it to be some of the most moving music i own.
Thanks, will continue to research and listen widely.

 

[jsaliga]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaduffy007 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Another example is the SACD releases of the Living Stereo recordings. Many used three mics. Only NOW, will we hear the "real deal". Again, I do love vinyl for the old stuff, but let's not become blind to its serious shortcomings.

x2!! The RCA Living Stereo SACD releases have been so damned good that I have bought just about all of them. The Heifetz recordings in particular are truely breathtaking, and I have some of them on vinyl for comparison. They did a wonderful job on SACD releases, and I wish we would see more jazz and rock on the format.

--Jerome

 

[LFF]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsaliga /img/forum/go_quote.gif x2!! The RCA Living Stereo SACD releases have been so damned good that I have bought just about all of them. The Heifetz recordings in particular are truely breathtaking, and I have some of them on vinyl for comparison. They did a wonderful job on SACD releases, and I wish we would see more jazz and rock on the format. --Jerome

I can completely agree on this! I own all of them and they are all truly lovingly remastered. Some of the best reissues I have heard these past few years.

EDIT:

Jerome - I can't look them up (RVG's) as I gave them away. I think I have a few but need to look through my CD collection. I know I got them back in 2005/early 2006 but can't recall the printed dates on the CD's.

Maybe I should give them another chance and buy some new ones.

 

[epaludo]

The last jazz album that i bought is Wynton Marsalis The Magic Hour. Very well recorded and brilliant album. Highly recommended ...