[Pendergast]

Hello,

I need to understand something here.

I just purchased a SR71 from Ray Samuels. I have a pocket dock and er4p to complement an iPod nano.

I am looking for an interconnect that make sense with this deal.

Now, would a $100 valued interconnect (between the pockect dock and the iPod) make any difference with a $30 pocket dock in the chain?

If you have any suggestions for an interconnect, I'd be glad to read, but I need a good rationale to make such a purchase.

Thank you for your help!

 

[K2Grey]

First of all, I will assume at the beginning of this post that differences in interconnects are meaningful (although this is debatable).

The PocketDock very likely does much less than the interconnect. It isn't very long or have huge quantities of wiring in it. On the contrary, an interconnect covers some length. Finally, the cost of the PocketDock is irrelevant to its importance or signal degrading effects.

It is like saying, is it worth paying for a $300 interconnect if the RCA connectors cost $10 each? Well, the RCA connectors don't have to do all that much. You would not be that much better off if the RCA connectors were sold by an exotic company for $100 each as special ultimate audiophile RCA connectors.

Another argument pertains to the SR-71's wiring. The wiring of the SR-71 does not cost $30. Yet it is considered important to use a 'good' IC with the SR-71, so obviously the SR-71s internal wiring is not important. In that case the PocketDock's internal wiring costs is not important.

 

[Pendergast]

K2Grey, thank you for your reply.

What I understood, prior to your post, was that wiring lenght and shielding are important factors.

Some metals conduct better than others. Which are better (or mixes alloys) are better I do not know, and I am not certain if the difference would be that significant.

Regarding the internal wiring of the SR71, I do not know its value. However, it's lenght has to be very small in total, so I suppose it does not impact performance much, whateve the metal used.

An interconnect is exposed to movement, the metal is being worked around quite a lot compared to the stressed endured in the wiring of the SR71. It will therefore be subjected to changes which may have an effect on the performance of the transmission of the signal. Now, would that be noticeable?

And if not, what's a pocketdock's value, considering it's lack of exposure to physical stresses creating changes in its molecular structure, versus the value of a long-enduring interconnect and how would the signal be affected in the end, to my ears?

Is it really worth it to purchase a $100 worth of interconnect, and how can I be sure it is a good purchase in the long term? Should I even bother ask the question?

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by K2Grey Another argument pertains to the SR-71's wiring. The wiring of the SR-71 does not cost $30. Yet it is considered important to use a 'good' IC with the SR-71, so obviously the SR-71s internal wiring is not important. In that case the PocketDock's internal wiring costs is not important.

I'm not sure fo the cost of the Ray wiring (and I doubt for such short lengh it will cost $30.00) but it is military speced wire, not cheap, and not bad at all...

 

[tkam]

I always love the talk of "military spec" like it actually means something is of better quality than non-military spec. Military spec hardly means anything and most of the time is the cheapest stuff around.

 

[EdipisReks]

both sides of my family are military going back about 4 generations. this includes soldiers, engineers and contractors with the Army, Marine Corp and Air Force. whenever any of the currently alive ones talk about "mil-spec" it is always with a tone of derision. in most cases, from how they describe it, "mil-spec" means the cheapest crap that will kinda do the job.

 

[euclid]

Ray Samuels describes milspec as the pcb board material, solder materal, and overall constuction procedure, keeping resistors facing forward and up for easy indentification.

the sr-71 is a pcd board construction while the pocketdock has very small gauge insulated internal wiring, which could theoretically impart crosstalk. its not really a fair comparison, afaik the sr-71 has no internal wiring only traces with components directly soldered.

the weekest link in your chain is the mini-jacks on the pocketdock and SR-71. id say a quality interconnect will improve the sound quality but with that said you dont have to spend $100, you could make a neutrik terminated foot of canare insulated 21awg starquad for 5$(assuming you can solder). that would be infinately better than a free-bee type unshielded 30+awg mini-mini imho (for looks, sound, and durability)

 

[markl]

I certainly wouldn't spend $100 on cabling in a system like that, probably not even $30 (and I'm a cable believer).

 

[RnB180]

Quote:

Originally Posted by euclid Ray Samuels describes milspec as the pcb board material, solder materal, and overall constuction procedure, keeping resistors facing forward and up for easy indentification. the sr-71 is a pcd board construction while the pocketdock has very small gauge insulated internal wiring, which could theoretically impart crosstalk. its not really a fair comparison, afaik the sr-71 has no internal wiring only traces with components directly soldered. the weekest link in your chain is the mini-jacks on the pocketdock and SR-71. id say a quality interconnect will improve the sound quality but with that said you dont have to spend $100, you could make a neutrik terminated foot of canare insulated 21awg starquad for 5$(assuming you can solder). that would be infinately better than a free-bee type unshielded 30+awg mini-mini imho (for looks, sound, and durability)

canare star quad isnt 21 awg.
In real world applications the conductors are closer to maybe 24 awg but not quite really, I think its a bit smaller.
21 awg maybe with the thick PVC insulation.

 

[Pendergast]

Quote:

Originally Posted by euclid the weekest link in your chain is the mini-jacks on the pocketdock and SR-71. id say a quality interconnect will improve the sound quality but with that said you dont have to spend $100, you could make a neutrik terminated foot of canare insulated 21awg starquad for 5$(assuming you can solder). that would be infinately better than a free-bee type unshielded 30+awg mini-mini imho (for looks, sound, and durability)

Thank you for the suggestion. That is interesting.

I suppose that this type of cable is flexible enough? But then, what interconnect jacks should I be looking for if I were to go DIY?

I am willing to do a little work myself, but fear the finition...

 

[euclid]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RnB180 canare star quad isnt 21 awg. In real world applications the conductors are closer to maybe 24 awg but not quite really, I think its a bit smaller. 21 awg maybe with the thick PVC insulation.

the braided shield is 21awg standard size and 23awg for the smaller.
http://www.canare.com/index.cfm?obje...AD046DCA18AAFA

the foil shieded version is 20awg for the thicker cable and 22awg for thinner type. fwiw the foil is alot easier to work with.
http://www.canare.com/index.cfm?obje...D91FB0818FDFB6

the canare stereo mini(f12) will accept up to 6mm which will fit the larger starquad but techflex will add another mm of thickness.
http://www.canare.com/index.cfm?obje...5DA43EE99C3A24

even the smaller diameter starquad is too large to fit in the boot of these neutrik connectors
http://www.neutrik.com/images/ock/pr..._459854644.pdf

but if you need the 90degree turn you can either not use the boot and just secure it with double-walled adheasive heatshrink, or strip all the insulation and kevlar out of the starquad to use the actual wire, braid 3 of them and cover in techflex.

www.markertek.com carries the all the parts

 

[RnB180]

euclid,

are you kidding me?

real world application, no matter what the specs are listed at, the full sized starquad conductors are NOT even close to 21 awg.

maybe 21 awg with the insulation. or 21 awg with 2 conductors twisted together

,

Ive made enough to know its not 21 awg. 24-26 is a closer number in regards to conductor size. I think those specs are counting the fat insulation too.

in reality the star quad conductors are very thin, but have very thick plastic insulation to compensate. If youre looking for some flexible starquad and an up in quality check out the cardas 24 x 4 with shield.

canare starquad is so thick and inflexible because of the the type of PVC and thickness it uses. It needs to be thick for microphone cable, where it would need to be extra durable..

 

[RnB180]

dp

 

[euclid]

i use the foil sheilded 20awg, which i strip with an 18gauge solid core stripper. i dont have a stranded stripper and i dont want to knick the strands. the 18awg hole cuts the insulation and strips the wire, i dont have any reason to believe its not actually 20awg stranded wire.

as far as flexibility, the fully insulated wire has bend radius of less than an inch. i can take a 6inch piece and easily turn it 180 degress over on itself. then without the insulation, sheilding, and kevlar flexabilty is a non-issue.

its a high qualitiy low cost copper wire and it comes in 4 sizes and 2 constructions, use your imagaination. but for the record on this thread i stand down, starquad is unuseable for a mini-mini nobody try it, its also overpirced at 35cents/foot, IOW im tired of wasting my time.

 

[RnB180]

the reason I question the awg wire is because I have specified 26, 24, 22, 16, 18, 10 wire. the starquad canare shielded microphone cable has a conductor awg most similar to the 24 but a bit smaller.

regarding star quad, I would prefer more flex, which is why I brought up the Cardas blue wire which is much more flexible.

It still can be used for mini cables. but I prefer it to be more flexible. You forget to mention, at short lengths, even at 1" bend radius, there is noticeable resistive force. You can bend a star quad cable with 10 awg at a 1" radius also.

still starquad is a very nice sounding cable for mini interconnects, never said it wasnt

regarding kevlar, I was unaware, I didnt know starquad used kevlar, are we talking about the same 4e6s? mine uses cotton and paper filler, to maintain geometry and I suppose lower capacitance.

hope you dont take none of it personal

. The senn stock cable uses kevlar, starquad to my knowledge uses cotton.