[digifred]

I listen music mostly while behind my computer in a small room. Still I would like to get the best out of it. At the moment I have a pair of bookshelve speakers and a small dedicated amp. I'm ready to upgrade and will keep my current soundcard which is good enough (Maya44). My room is 2m x 2.45m (6.5' x 8') and the speakers face down the width. I know the situation is less than ideal but I still want to try.
I'm looking at high grade small speakers. I listen to a lot of instrumental classical recordings, music with vocals and occasionally to electronic/beat music. The speakers I have narrowed down are mostly nearfield monitors such as the small ADAM Artist 3, A3X, A5X or the KRK VXT 4 and the Genelec 8020BPM. I'm considering also the DIY speaker route thinking I may get more out of my budget since I already have an amp. I'm willing to spend around 500-650€ for the speakers.
What do you think, can I setup something worthwhile here? 
 
Here's a picture of my room:

 

[jenneth]

I've had the Genelec 8020B for a while, the sounds they produce are crystal clear and they have very nice imagining (quite impressive consider how small they are). However, if you want to use the 8020B as your primary monitors, you would probably need to get a sub. I have no experience with the other monitors you mentioned, but judging from the spec, I think you might be happier with the A5X or go the DIY route.
 
Oh, I forgot to mention this... if you're willing to spend a little bit more, you should check out the Neumann KH-120.  It's the undated version of Klein + Hummel O 110.
 

 

[mtkversion]

While you won't go wrong with any of the current candidates you listed, because you said you're considering the DIY route (plus to make usage of your current amp) I think you'll be happier (and prouder) if you were able to make your next pair of speakers.  This also depends on your experience with wood working unless you buy pre-fabbed enclosures.  Gives you some flexibility as well if you want to go with separates/crossover or a high quality full range driver.
 
Theres quite a few kits out there from established companies you can look at and research.  I'd love to make some bookshelves with a 5" Seas woofer, Heil ribbon tweeter and a proper crossover in the future when I have the time to dedicate to it.

 

[Mauricio]

In that price range, $660 to $860, I'd go with an active 2.1 system by Yamaha HS series, KRK or JBL LSR2300 series, or an active 2.0 system with the Yamaha MSP7 Studio.  Faithful to their professional orientation, however, these only have balanced XLR input so your DAC/soundcard will have to be able to output a balaced signal.  The lowest priced DAC with balanced outputs is the HRT Streamer Pro ($399).
 
Further up the price chain, I'd go with the JBL LSR6325P ($920/pair).  In fact, I'll be purchasing a pair of these as soon as I get back home.
 
"Dedicated amp" and passive system, even if you are bi-amping, is an oxymoron.

 

[digifred]

Quote:

I've had the Genelec 8020B for a while, the sounds they produce are crystal clear and they have very nice imagining (quite impressive consider how small they are). However, if you want to use the 8020B as your primary monitors, you would probably need to get a sub. I have no experience with the other monitors you mentioned, but judging from the spec, I think you might be happier with the A5X or go the DIY route.
 
Oh, I forgot to mention this... if you're willing to spend a little bit more, you should check out the Neumann KH-120.  It's the undated version of Klein + Hummel O 110.
 

I'll be sure to try the Genelec.  I am interested in getting a pair of good speakers first and if they suit me I'll add the subwoofer and complete the setup.
The Neuman are over my budget where I live.
The A5X are nice but I'm concerned they will be too large for my room. I really need to understand the relationship between room size and speakers size and experiment with it. Also some speakers sit preferably a certain distance from the wall but I'm not sure studio monitors are designed that way.


Quote:

While you won't go wrong with any of the current candidates you listed, because you said you're considering the DIY route (plus to make usage of your current amp) I think you'll be happier (and prouder) if you were able to make your next pair of speakers.  This also depends on your experience with wood working unless you buy pre-fabbed enclosures.  Gives you some flexibility as well if you want to go with separates/crossover or a high quality full range driver.
 
Theres quite a few kits out there from established companies you can look at and research.  I'd love to make some bookshelves with a 5" Seas woofer, Heil ribbon tweeter and a proper crossover in the future when I have the time to dedicate to it.

I'm not building anything fancy. I probably will be using an existing design. I lack also a bit of patience with applying the finishing touch.
 


Quote:

In that price range, $660 to $860, I'd go with an active 2.1 system by Yamaha HS series, KRK or JBL LSR2300 series, or an active 2.0 system with the Yamaha MSP7 Studio.  Faithful to their professional orientation, however, these only have balanced XLR input so your DAC/soundcard will have to be able to output a balaced signal.  The lowest priced DAC with balanced outputs is the HRT Streamer Pro ($399).
 
Further up the price chain, I'd go with the JBL LSR6325P ($920/pair).  In fact, I'll be purchasing a pair of these as soon as I get back home.
 
"Dedicated amp" and passive system, even if you are bi-amping, is an oxymoron.

The MSP7 are out of my price range although I could stretch my budget for the LSR6325P if I can find a place to listen to them.
 
And if we're stretching things how about the Dynaudio BM 5A Compact?
 
Also, you don't believe in separates?
 

 

[Mauricio]

Quote:

I'll be sure to try the Genelec.  I am interested in getting a pair of good speakers first and if they suit me I'll add the subwoofer and complete the setup.
The Neuman are over my budget where I live.
The A5X are nice but I'm concerned they will be too large for my room. I really need to understand the relationship between room size and speakers size and experiment with it. Also some speakers sit preferably a certain distance from the wall but I'm not sure studio monitors are designed that way.

I'm not building anything fancy. I probably will be using an existing design. I lack also a bit of patience with applying the finishing touch.
 

The MSP7 are out of my price range although I could stretch my budget for the LSR6325P if I can find a place to listen to them.
 
And if we're stretching things how about the Dynaudio BM 5A Compact?
 
Also, you don't believe in separates?
 

The Yamaha MSP7 Studio are actually a bit less expensive than the JBL LSR6325P.
 
The Dynaudio are an option too.
 
I believe in system first, components second.  I prefer active monitors in which the crossover, amp and driver--in that exact order-- form part of an integrated system.
 

 

[digifred]

Quote:

The Yamaha MSP7 Studio are actually a bit less expensive than the JBL LSR6325P.
 
The Dynaudio are an option too.
 
I believe in system first, components second.  I prefer active monitors in which the crossover, amp and driver--in that exact order-- form part of an integrated system.
 

I found the opposite true where I live.
 
I have still a question before I go listening to speakers. For a room of my size is there a preferred speaker/driver size. I heard for small spaces a 4' woofer is better than a larger one, is this true?
 

 

[TMRaven]

It can be harder to control lower frequencies in a smaller room, but also easier to pressurize the room.  Just make sure you have adequate sound treatment and any size room can sound like a huge room.

 

[digifred]

Quote:

It can be harder to control lower frequencies in a smaller room, but also easier to pressurize the room.  Just make sure you have adequate sound treatment and any size room can sound like a huge room.

That's good to hear. I have read a bit on acoustics, the use of broadband absorbers and treating the 'mirror' points. I do wonder if I can get more bass where I sit now. It seems I have to sit back to hear it. Anything a room EQ can help?

 

[TMRaven]

Room EQ won't totally help that problem.  What you're experiencing is likely the bass reflecting off the back wall and canceling the waves coming out after, giving you less bass in the center of the room, and a buildup along the walls and corners.  Bass traps and absorbers can definitely help that problem.  As you can imagine, sitting outdoors yields the best results for bass, because the bass won't reflect off anything and has room to develop. 

 

[digifred]

Quote:

Room EQ won't totally help that problem.  What you're experiencing is likely the bass reflecting off the back wall and canceling the waves coming out after, giving you less bass in the center of the room, and a buildup along the walls and corners.  Bass traps and absorbers can definitely help that problem.  As you can imagine, sitting outdoors yields the best results for bass, because the bass won't reflect off anything and has room to develop. 

Are you talking about null points from standing waves? What about room modes, are those also part of the problem here?
I'm trying to figure out what best treatment to use. I don't want to spend too much and I know bass traps are in general pretty expensive so I have to make informed decisions and optimal use of the material.
 
I went to an audio store yesterday and asked what speakers would be suitable as desktop audio. They said hifi speakers need room and space to work well and suggested I should look at studio monitors instead. Is this all true?
 

 

[Mauricio]

I think you should look to active studio monitors regardless of what the "hi-fi" people say.

 

[digifred]

Quote:

I think you should look to active studio monitors regardless of what the "hi-fi" people say.

I understand.
I made a small list of units I'd like to audition. What speaker size is better in my situation, for ex KRK VXT 4 or VXT6? Adam Artist 3 or 5?

 

[Mauricio]

All well-designed active speaker like the KRK VTX series and the the Adam will play equally well at low and high volumes.  The limiting factor will be the physical size of your room and whether they fit in your space.   If your plan is to turn your 2.0 system into a 2.1 system by adding a subwoofer later, I would go with a speaker with a midrange driver in the 5"-5.25" range.  If not, I'd look for units with a larger midrange driver.

 

[digifred]

I made a trip to my local music store yesterday and spent some time listening to a bunch of monitors. The ones on my list that they had were the KRK VXT4/6, Adam AX5, Genelec 8020A/8030A and the Dynaudio BM5A MkII. They all sound descent but I pretty quickly gave up on the KRK and Adam as the other ones were better for my taste, more clarity and more natural in general. The Adam AX5 were a bit 'muffled' in the mids and the KRK too shrill. The 8030A are out of my price range and the 8020A paired with a sub perhaps would go very well in my room. I have to admit I prefer the sound of the BM5A but they might be too large for my space.
 
There was some talk about acoustics and absorption previously. Are there good resources on the net that are well explained and easy to understand and follow? Thanks!