PS Audio DL III or CI Audio VDA-2

[MikeW]

yes, but are the poor material's used directly related to the cost of building the car? when you have to pay people 70$ an hour and still make a profitable car, cost have to be cut somewhere. A lot of the foreign car's are in fact made here in the USA, in fact Toyota has a huge Tundra plant right here in my town (san antonio). But they are not burdened by union's and forced to pay workers outrageous wages.

 

[VicAjax]

union wages are out of whack, no doubt. and the bigger union problems are the bloated benefits and the folks who aren't working but who still get paid.

but i'm not even talking about build quality, which has actually improved over the past 10-15 years. the Big Three sunk themselves by investing nothing into R&D, and that's their own fault. No R&D means poorly designed, poorly engineered cars that no one wants. can't pin that on the unions.

 

[regal]

As someone who worked in a GM assembly plant I can tell you that corruption is rampant. Literally 100's of employees making $100k/year to sit and play cards. And this was when sales were good and we needed people to work. The $75/hr windshield wiper installer is just the tip of the iceberg folks. The union made it impossible to fire anyone, even if they assaulted supervisors physically. Best bet would have been to let GM go bankrupt. Someone else would have started making cars without corruption.

That said, slavery in China is not a better option. The domestic Honda plants are the perfect example of what good business looks like.

 

[V-DiV]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrarroyo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Enjoy your new dac, it is a beauty. Do hope you post pictures and impressions.

I've been listening to my VDA-2 for a couple of weeks now and love it. It is nice and clear and resolving, like the VHP-2 that it is paired with. I don't get any impression of coloring in the sound.

I can't compare the VDA-2 with any other good DACs besides the one in the Squeezebox Duet, which is really not bad in its own right. The SB DAC is a little grainy and struggles a bit on loud, complex passages. In comparison, the sound opens up, is more spacious, more 3d with the VDA-2. The bass is a little deeper and stronger and textured - you can better hear the growly vibrations of the bass and the sound of string on fretboard/fingerboard. The highs also seem a bit more extended and significantly clearer and more relaxed (no sense of strain and grain).

Others who have made the comparisons have said that the 192 kHz sampling in the VDA-2 (and Benchmark) gives instruments a thinner sound compared to NOS DACs and also nice clean bass but less than the Lavry DAC. But I like the sound just fine because I do love the instrument separation and clarity. I don't need/want an emphasized bass to fill in the sound. Others will want that -depends on taste and kind of music.

The biggest coloring agent in my system is my K701s which of course have a bit too much emphasis in the upper mid/lower highs, but for what I listen to mostly and the sound I'm after, I think they are the best available headphones short of moving up toward the high hundreds to thousand dollar range (someday

). But as a way of getting some fatness and warmth, I am in the process of putting together the parts to build a Bijou tube amp to see how that goes with the K701s.

 

[regal]

I built a pass D1 Dac but if I tried a PS Audio DLIII before that. I hated the DL III. I would love to have the opportunity to hear a VDA-2.

 

[V-DiV]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeW /img/forum/go_quote.gif why all the hate for china, american's have priced themselves out of the market. anyway, as a previous owner of the vda-2, I loved it, and im sure you will too, it's a great dac, with alot of texture, and prat.

I hadn't planned to start an econo-politico debate, but...

Hey Mike, I'm not against China. I just don't like to see all of our money going overseas with the huge trade imbalance. As others have said, China's low prices are due in part to awful environmental regulations. They are going to pay for that in the future. We pay for a clean environment as we go now, so it costs a little more. I doubt that the workers that Rusty employs at CI Audio belong to UAW. I think his design philosophy is good value for the money. Anyway, I'd rather pay people in our home economy to build stuff for me so they'll have money to buy products/services from me. Otherwise, eventually we'll all be in the poor house.

I'm not saying that you should only buy products produced in your own country. But if there is a huge trade imbalance with some other country and your country is bleeding money, and if there is an equally good product made in your own country that happens to cost a bit more, and if some of that higher cost goes into a higher standard of living that you and your countrymen enjoy, and if some of that higher cost goes into protecting the environment that also benefits our quality of life - then it is kind of a no brainer.

I second what VicJax and Regal said about Detroit vs. Japan-America builders. The stupid-lazy execs in Detroit (the ones who each flew their own jets down to Washington to ask for a bailout) kept repackaging the same old junk for years and then they relied on sales of gas-guzzling SUVs at a time of shrinking supplies and growing demand in Asia and South America. Obviously that gravy train had to end, but they weren't prepared - stupid!

 

[V-DiV]

Quote:

Originally Posted by USAudio /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just noticed this thread.. This is scary, you have almost the identical setup I do and bought your equipment for much the same reasons; SB3 > VDA2/VAC1 > VHP2/VAC1 > HD650 I tried the DLIII for awhile but sent it back as I thought the VDA-2 sounded as good or better AND as you stated, the DLIII is made in China now... I also use BlueJeans cables but I use their optical cable between my SB3 and VDA-2 as I couldn't hear any SQ difference between the optical and coax and I wanted to isolate by VDA-2 from my SB3 and its switching power supply... Enjoy!

How do you like this setup with your Sennheisers? I bet the HD650's bass makes the most of the VDA-2/VHP-2 clean bottom and the VDA-2/VHP-2 clear highs bring a little sunshine to the HD650s! Does the VHP-2 seem to have enough oomph to get most of what the 650s have to give or does it seem they would want more power?

I had built a regulated power supply for my Squeezebox, used it for a while, but then I didn't like the connectors that I was able to find (they didn't mate well) and I never finished fixing it. Maybe I will put it together this week to see if it makes a difference in sound now with the VDA-2 inline. I hadn't noticed much, if any difference before.

 

[MikeW]

Yeah, I understand what you are saying, im a real tightwad too. My previous setup, which consisted of Beyer DT880, a Headroom Maxxed Millet with power supply (1300$) and a CI VDA2, cost me over 2 grand all said and done. Now im using the setup in my sig and getting 90% of the sound quality at a paltry 750$.

 

[USAudio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by V-DiV /img/forum/go_quote.gif How do you like this setup with your Sennheisers? I bet the HD650's bass makes the most of the VDA-2/VHP-2 clean bottom and the VDA-2/VHP-2 clear highs bring a little sunshine to the HD650s! Does the VHP-2 seem to have enough oomph to get most of what the 650s have to give or does it seem they would want more power?

I've been very happy with the HD650's. With the VHP2's high-gain switch on, I never turn the volume up even 1/2 way. Anything above that would be painfully loud and do some damage!

 

[V-DiV]

Quote:

Originally Posted by USAudio /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've been very happy with the HD650's. With the VHP2's high-gain switch on, I never turn the volume up even 1/2 way. Anything above that would be painfully loud and do some damage!

I didn't mean how loud it would go (the gain). My little battery powered CMoy will play loud as all get out, but sound very rough around the edges compared to the VHP-2. I was referring to the clarity of the sound, how well the VDA-2/VHP-2 get all of the music clearly and with authority out of the HD650s.

 

[RichyRich]

Sorry to say but American cars are seen as a bit of a joke outside of the US apart from Ford. Big, clunky and hopeless at handling in general not to mention the amount of gas they consume. Not that us brits can talk, we've lost nearly all of our industry. You just got to take your hats off to the Germans and Japanesse, they make great cars.

Also, we are all effected by pollution, not just the country producing it. We've had our industrial revolutions, China is having there's now. I can understand in a way why China is sticking 2 fingers up. They want rapid growth and hell with the consequences pretty much like we did.

 

[VicAjax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichyRich /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sorry to say but American cars are seen as a bit of a joke outside of the US apart from Ford. Big, clunky and hopeless at handling in general not to mention the amount of gas they consume. Not that us brits can talk, we've lost nearly all of our industry. You just got to take your hats off to the Germans and Japanesse, they make great cars.

can't disagree with this. although Cadillac had a couple of winners in the past few years. and who knows, maybe Tesla Motors is the next great hope for US automotive ingenuity.

Quote:

Also, we are all effected by pollution, not just the country producing it. We've had our industrial revolutions, China is having there's now. I can understand in a way why China is sticking 2 fingers up. They want rapid growth and hell with the consequences pretty much like we did.

the difference is that we didn't entirely understand the consequences when we had our industrial revolutions. China, on the other hand, fully understands both the environmental and labor repercussions of their growth.

 

[jsplice]

Wow those are gorgeous pictures. What kind of camera was used?

 

[dmashta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by VicAjax /img/forum/go_quote.gif the difference is that we didn't entirely understand the consequences when we had our industrial revolutions. China, on the other hand, fully understands both the environmental and labor repercussions of their growth.

we had our revolution, reaped the benefits, did our damage, and just shrug it off because we didn't know better. fine, not much to argue there, what's done is done. but seeing that the bulk of production and manufacturing in china is consumed by the developed countries, aren't we just as responsible for the consequences? in our continuous effort to cut costs, we outsource our manufacturing and pay them to do the dirty work, only to turn around and complain. sure, they can impose tighter environmental policies or greener manufacturing processes but that will only drive costs up. and when prices go up, we just move over to their next cheapest competitor, be it india or wherever. and the cycle repeats.

i find our actions rather hypocritical to say the least.

 

[VicAjax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmashta /img/forum/go_quote.gif we had our revolution, reaped the benefits, did our damage, and just shrug it off because we didn't know better. fine, not much to argue there, what's done is done. but seeing that the bulk of production and manufacturing in china is consumed by the developed countries, aren't we just as responsible for the consequences? in our continuous effort to cut costs, we outsource our manufacturing and pay them to do the dirty work, only to turn around and complain. sure, they can impose tighter environmental policies or greener manufacturing processes but that will only drive costs up. and when prices go up, we just move over to their next cheapest competitor, be it india or wherever. and the cycle repeats. i find our actions rather hypocritical to say the least.

valid point.