Prokofiev symphonies, etc.
Aug 23, 2007 at 5:21 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 41

eyeresist

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[size=xx-small]Continuing from http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=180732[/size]


Continuing my exploration of Prokofiev's symphonies, I now have sets by Kuchar (Naxos), Gergiev (Philips), and Rozhdestvensky (Venezia, inc. piano concertos).

The Rozhdestvensky performances are good but not great; a bit underplayed and impersonal IMO. The 1960s recording has dated tonal quality, plus flattening of dynamics common to Russian close-miked recordings.

The Kuchar recordings are troubled by a veil of reverb, probably a problem with the mix rather than the hall, although the Kuchar recording of Kalinnikov's symphonies has the same problem. Others have commented on shrillness and lack of detail, but that hasn't been a problem for me.
I think the performances really lack shaping of the line, but are otherwise reliable and committed.

Others have mentioned the sound problems of the Gergiev set. The Barbican is notorious for its dry unflattering sound (I actually think a dry acoustic works with Prokofiev), but the problem here is tonal balance. High frequencies are over-emphasised, and the mid-low range is lacking except for the occasional deep bass "wallop". Since some of the mics must have been reasonably close to the players (with headphones you can hear Gergiev breathing during the more vigorous moments), the hall cannot shoulder all the blame.

The performances themselves are very good, but I dislike Gergiev's musical personality. He is, for want of a more musical term, too "butch" for this music. I think Prokofiev contains not only power and passion, but also delicacy and sophistication, an over-all wry humour, and restrained melancholy - I don't find these in Gergiev's work. (Though I do feel I need to listen to this set a few more times.)


I've yet to committ to the Jarvi set - he is reliable but has never impressed me as Great. He's on the list though. I'm now returning to individual recordings: after listening to various samples on Amazon, I now have Abravanel's recording of the 3rd on the way (2-CD set with Somary's P1, and Rossi with Alexander Nevsky & Lieutenant Kije). Apart from Karajan in the 5th, I'm also thinking about Depreist's 4th and Rosty's 6th, which I've read good things about.


Actually, I'd like to hear some of the "historically-informed" crowd attempt this work, or perhaps Boulez, who strangely doesn't seem to have recorded any Prokofiev at all. Apart from the above-mentioned qualities, clarity and energy are what I want from performances of Prokofiev's symphonies.
 
Aug 23, 2007 at 11:20 AM Post #2 of 41
You really need to get the Jarvi/Chandos set, he really excells at modern angular works like Prokofiev and his Shosty set is very good also. The Chandos sound is excellent, don't judge him by other works which are not nearly as good, this is his element in which he excells.

Quote:

clarity and energy are what I want from performances of Prokofiev's symphonies.


Again this is description for Jarvi set, no one is more energetic than Jarvi here and he captures all the subtle nuances also.
 
Aug 24, 2007 at 12:11 AM Post #4 of 41
Check out Martinon in this music - a french conducter brings something that the others don't. Weller is also very good. Jarvi is behind both of these overall, with Gergiev coming in last among the sets I currently have. I had the Kuchar but sold it because it was not very good.
 
Aug 24, 2007 at 1:22 AM Post #5 of 41
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyson /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Check out Martinon in this music - a french conducter brings something that the others don't. Weller is also very good. Jarvi is behind both of these overall, with Gergiev coming in last among the sets I currently have. I had the Kuchar but sold it because it was not very good.


I really like the Martinon/Vox set also, comes with many extras like overtures and nice Chout ballet suite.
 
Aug 24, 2007 at 2:15 AM Post #6 of 41
Ditto on the Martinon, but beware: the French orchestral execution is often scrappy and underpowered.

The Jarvi is excellent -- brilliantly played, recorded and conducted. The only symphony that you really need a better one is oddly enough, the 5th.

I really like the Gergiev. I think he gets everything just right. Still, it may be too muscular for some, and the sound certainly is less than demonstration quality.

The Ozawa is terrible. What ever happened to Ozawa? How could he ruin these works so badly? Kuchar is so badly recorded it's not worth it.

Two sets well worth seeking out: Walter Weller on oop Decca and the Rostropovich set on Erato which has an authenicity and humanity I find very appealing. And his French orchestra does just fine.

To assemble a great set of the symphonies individually:

#1: Ormandy on Sony
#2: Leinsdorf on Testament
#3: Abbado on London
#4: Ormandy, alas not on cd after all these years. So Jarvi will do fine.
#5: Karajan still takes the prize, but I sure like Temirkanov.
#6: Slatkin on BMG
#7: Previn on Philips if you can find it.
 
Aug 24, 2007 at 2:37 AM Post #7 of 41
I am having a terrible time finding recordings that satisfy me in both recording quality and performance in these works. I love this music and I have not found any performance that catches me completely. I've tried Ozawa, Kuchar, Karajan, Jarvi, Previn, Weller....haven't got the Gergiev yet. I mean, I have recordings of a lot Prokofiev's other music that I love, but the symphonies remain elusive; something is always off. No conductor has spoken to me yet.
 
Aug 24, 2007 at 2:52 AM Post #8 of 41
Not a fan of Martinon, in Prokofiev or anything else. I had his Prok 3, which was workman-like in ugly sound, and I've heard samples of his 7th, which some rate highly, but which I found very much overdone. If you milk it, the 7th doesn't work - it has to be restrained, repressed even.

I recommend again the Malko disc of Prokofiev's 1 and 7 (with happy ending). Classic, reference performances.

I have Temirkanov in the 5th ($5 from HMV.jp) - very good but maybe slightly self-conscious. Good sound. But why are individual symphony releases always paired with the 1st or with the Kije suite? (or both in this case) They're enjoyable works, but it's not difficult to find decent versions, and the performances are usually fairly similar, so I don't really need yet another version for my collection.


Hadden - I feel your pain! Prokofiev's symphonies are complex, ambivalent works and often seem to elude even the greatest conductors.
 
Aug 24, 2007 at 2:57 AM Post #9 of 41
Speaking of Prokofiev and Concerto, I am thinking of getting the complete concerto set of Prokofiev on DECCA, with Joshua Bell, Ashkenazy, Previn and etc. I know that there are many people out there that do not like Ashkenazy, but with my limited understanding in the classical field I do enjoy his playing (have his essential chopin, rachmaninoff and scriabin sonatas set).
I am so glad that I discovered this section of the forums.
Finally someone (though not in dydadic communication) to talk to about classical music. I felt really isolated.
Brings a tear of joy to my eyes.
 
Aug 24, 2007 at 3:14 AM Post #10 of 41
Quote:

Originally Posted by Facade19 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Speaking of Prokofiev and Concerto, I am thinking of getting the complete concerto set of Prokofiev on DECCA, with Joshua Bell, Ashkenazy, Previn and etc. I know that there are many people out there that do not like Ashkenazy, but with my limited understanding in the classical field I do enjoy his playing (have his essential chopin, rachmaninoff and scriabin sonatas set).
I am so glad that I discovered this section of the forums.
Finally someone (though not in dydadic communication) to talk to about classical music. I felt really isolated.
Brings a tear of joy to my eyes.



I do like Ashkenazy playing or conducting just about all of Rachmaninov. His Decca recordings of this music I enjoy. I have his Prokofiev Cinderella as well. Great sound and performance. Don't know if he has done the Prokofiev symphonies. I would think he should be good in these.
 
Aug 24, 2007 at 4:12 AM Post #11 of 41
I'm a fan of both Bell and Ashkenazy, but Bell is downright bad in these works, and Ashkenazy is merely OK. Try Vengerov for the Violin Concertos and Toradze or Beroff in the Piano Concertos
 
Aug 24, 2007 at 4:19 AM Post #12 of 41
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyson /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I'm a fan of both Bell and Ashkenazy, but Bell is downright bad in these works, and Ashkenazy is merely OK. Try Vengerov for the Violin Concertos and Toradze or Beroff in the Piano Concertos


Thank you very much.
I will check them out.
Though I hope they are somewhat inexpensive.
smily_headphones1.gif
 
Aug 24, 2007 at 4:45 AM Post #13 of 41
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hadden /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I do like Ashkenazy playing or conducting just about all of Rachmaninov. His Decca recordings of this music I enjoy. I have his Prokofiev Cinderella as well. Great sound and performance. Don't know if he has done the Prokofiev symphonies. I would think he should be good in these.


There is a Double Decca of Ashkenazy conducting symphonies 1, 5, 6 & 7, with various orchestras. I haven't heard it, but I did think it was a shame he didn't do 3 and 4 as well as/instead of the better known ones.
 
Aug 24, 2007 at 7:08 AM Post #14 of 41
Rostropovich & the Orchestre National de France. Elatus reissued it. I have the original Erato version, and it is very good, specially the 4th. Rostropovich does better conducting Prokofiev than Shostakovich. And of course, no other conductor was better placed to know the composer's intentions.
 
Aug 24, 2007 at 1:52 PM Post #15 of 41
I would like to also get that Weller/Decca set but no one sells it new, even overseas sources, and used price is way overpriced. No Archiv version at this time either........

Actually there are very few recordings out by Weller of any composer, I did just order the Weller/Chandos Mendehlsson complete symphony set at budget price.
 

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