Project 1.2 vs. Technics 1200?

[lini]

Mr. X: Surprisingly (to me, at least

) clear results. I'd be interested in the details, though...

Greetings from Hannover!

Manfred / lini

 

[Mr. X]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lini Mr. X: Surprisingly (to me, at least ) clear results. I'd be interested in the details, though... Greetings from Hannover! Manfred / lini

Lini, the presence was missing. I put on my 200g Neil Young vinyl, and couldn't believe how much of it was lost on the Technics. Neil's voice was under water, the drums were pushed into the background. Where as with the Pro-Ject, everything was up front and in the room with me. It truly is a massive difference. I am sold on Pro-Ject and Sumiko's cartridges, and can't wait to get that Xperience!

 

[BlindTiger]

mr. x, are the sumiko blue points Hi output MC cartridges?
My stock cartridge is the same as yours, the oyster.
I have access to a shinon red, now that my bro in law got his audionote IO.
He had an audionote transformer lying around so now he's happy.

 

[ssportclay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. X Lini, the presence was missing. I put on my 200g Neil Young vinyl, and couldn't believe how much of it was lost on the Technics. Neil's voice was under water, the drums were pushed into the background. Where as with the Pro-Ject, everything was up front and in the room with me. It truly is a massive difference. I am sold on Pro-Ject and Sumiko's cartridges, and can't wait to get that Xperience!

If you were to mount the Technics tonearm on to your Pro-ject turntable,Neil Young would sound under water again.People like to blame the poor sound quality of the Technics 1200 on the DD system when actually the stock tonearm is at fault.It would really be nice if Technics would offer a Rega 250 tonearm option on their 1200 turntable then all anybody would have to do is upgrade the wiring and replace the tail stem and weights.Anyway,its no big deal changing the tonearm.It just takes a screw driver and 45 minutes of your time.The hardest part is earning the money to pay for the new arm.

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. X Lini, the presence was missing. I put on my 200g Neil Young vinyl, and couldn't believe how much of it was lost on the Technics. Neil's voice was under water, the drums were pushed into the background. Where as with the Pro-Ject, everything was up front and in the room with me.

In very broad strokes a belt drive deck will give you a wider soundstage than a direct drive so more sense of deapth and height generally capturing the atmosphere of a recording.
Where a direct drive turntable generally scores is on timing which is much more surefooted than any belt drive can ever, be so instruments will start and stop with much more precision. This is particulary noticable on drums and piano where belt drives can sound blurred, which of course they are ever so slightly. This gets progressively worse over the years until you need to change the belt.


What you are describing soundwise is definitely attributable to the old Technics tonearm which uses a lot of rubber gromits to damp itself between all it's various extraneous joints. Also the wiring is inferior to that commonly used these days and the bearings tend to go quite quickly if the deck is used for DJ'ing. All these things combine to rob the sound of any life and leave it sounding smeared and vague.

 

[Mr. X]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlindTiger mr. x, are the sumiko blue points Hi output MC cartridges?

Yes, it is high output, MM.

Pro-Ject tables always come with a good cartridge. I liked the Oyster. The Xperience comes with a stock black pearl. I'm sure it sounds good, but I thought I'd go for the BP2 and have even more sound revealed.

 

[Mr. X]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssportclay If you were to mount the Technics tonearm on to your Pro-ject turntable,Neil Young would sound under water again.People like to blame the poor sound quality of the Technics 1200 on the DD system when actually the stock tonearm is at fault.It would really be nice if Technics would offer a Rega 250 tonearm option on their 1200 turntable then all anybody would have to do is upgrade the wiring and replace the tail stem and weights.Anyway,its no big deal changing the tonearm.It just takes a screw driver and 45 minutes of your time.The hardest part is earning the money to pay for the new arm.

I NEVER blamed the DD system. I am fully aware that the tonearm is the *main* problem.

All I know is that I paid less money for my Pro-Ject, and it sounded great out of the box. The Technics costs more, sounds inferior, and then you tell me I have to MOD it...yes, this is a MOD....(just because someone found an easy way to do it does not mean it's not modifying the table)...which may not be all that difficult, but now I'm spending money on top of the table for a good arm, and then installing it....by the time all the money is spent and the work is done, it is in MY opinion that I could have already had a much better table for the price... I'm glad you're happy; we're just going to have to disagree. You enjoy your Technics with a different arm installed, and I'll enjoy what I believe to be a better table all-around in the Pro-Ject.....happy listening...

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. X but now I'm spending money on top of the table for a good arm, and then installing it......

Ha ha. welcome to the world of vinyl.

the only reason we are being so insistent is that the Technics SL1200 is a really good motorboard worth modifying.

Imagine this. You'll get the Expression and be happy with that for a few years swopping carts a few times maybe until the upgrade bug bites and then you get a Scout or something and a few more carts and then a few years down the line again maybe a Gyrodeck on which you'll uprade the power supply, the platter, the tonearm...etc Not even touching on phonostages, Moving Coils, exotic platter mats and clamps and the myriad of other stuff we vinyl junkies waste our money on...

The point is that the Technics is already more than half way there. It's got it where it counts. It's as though you have a beat up E-Type Jaguar in your garage and your going out and buying a brand new Mazda MX5 because it's easier than changing the tyres...or something.

 

[Mr. X]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. X Yes, it is high output, MM. Pro-Ject tables always come with a good cartridge. I liked the Oyster. The Xperience comes with a stock black pearl. I'm sure it sounds good, but I thought I'd go for the BP2 and have even more sound revealed.

made a mistake here....the blue point no.2 is a moving coil cartridge.....

While I'm at it.....it turns out the Xperience comes with a Sumiko Pearl (step up from black pearl)........does anyone have experience with the Pearl and the Blue Point No. 2? Hmmm. I'm wondering if the Pearl will serve me just fine with the Xpression....perhaps I can save $300 and skip the blue point. Any ideas?

 

[ssportclay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. X I NEVER blamed the DD system. I am fully aware that the tonearm is the *main* problem. All I know is that I paid less money for my Pro-Ject, and it sounded great out of the box. The Technics costs more, sounds inferior, and then you tell me I have to MOD it...yes, this is a MOD....(just because someone found an easy way to do it does not mean it's not modifying the table)...which may not be all that difficult, but now I'm spending money on top of the table for a good arm, and then installing it....by the time all the money is spent and the work is done, it is in MY opinion that I could have already had a much better table for the price... I'm glad you're happy; we're just going to have to disagree. You enjoy your Technics with a different arm installed, and I'll enjoy what I believe to be a better table all-around in the Pro-Ject.....happy listening...

Pro-ject/Music Hall turntables offer good sound for the money and you can't really go wrong owning most any of them.One thing you can't say about them is that they are over engineered because they do provide good sound for the very low cost of the materials of which they are made.The problem with this is that they offer no upgrade path.You have to sell the turntable and start all over again.The Technics 1200 is basically a direct drive scoutmaster with a crappy tonearm that has an upgrade path that will take you as far as you want to take it.It is also more user friendly than any belt drive ever made which makes it a pretty cool turntable.The fact that a person could dump several thousand dollars into one could be looked at as either a good thing or a bad thing but any money spent would not be money wasted because the basic deck is over engineered.