[bigshot]

Yah, it took a lot of trial and error because there were presets that were undocumented. The same goes for the image adjustment. Controls on TVs aren’t as easy to pin down as they used to be.

 

[Davesrose]

Yah, it took a lot of trial and error because there were presets that were undocumented. The same goes for the image adjustment. Controls on TVs aren’t as easy to pin down as they used to be.

With my large OLED with my HT, I calibrated it with some test clips I bought (for both HDR10 and Dolby Vision content). At least that TV is pretty nice in that apart from brightness, contrast, OLED light, there's also RGB channels. I could even fine tune color temperature to be exact. The smaller OLED I have in my bedroom is newer. I don't like it's menu as much...and it doesn't have all the picture modes my large OLED has (it has some Technicolor modes that are more specific to SDR and HDR10 content). The newer OLED has a "Filmmaker Mode": which advertises as being the most accurate and the intent of the director. Whatever: I'm not aware of movies having any new metadata for a "filmmaker mode"...just that HDR10 is good for basic HDR and Dolby Vision could have some more accuracy because it's 12bit space dynamically being tone-mapped to 10bit. The bedroom TV looks good as is, but I don't spend time doing critical viewing of movies.

 

[bigshot]

I just discovered a semi-hidden menu on my soundbar. It turns on DTS X Neural, which is apparently DTS’s version of Atmos. It has further controls to dynamically compress for night mode and to boost the vocals, but I left those off.

I tried several different kinds of tracks with it, and compared as best as I could to the Dolby Atmos setting. In general, Atmos makes an overall field that feels fuller in the middle of the room, while Neural tends to separate sounds to the front or rear better. It also upscales stereo to surround like Atmos does.

I tried DTS with an Atmos track and it sounded OK, but I think it sounded better upscaling 5.1. Hard to tell though because a direct A/B isn’t possible. Neural sounded thinner, so I decided to stick with Dolby.

As for picture mode, my set has no traditional color settings (hue, tint), only modes and overall gamma adjustment hidden from the user behind a hidden menu. I tried film maker mode, but it forced high frame rates down to 24fps, so I picked the normal daylight setting and tweaked all the processing manually. I liked regular HDR better than Folby vision too. There are all kinds of dynamic adjustments, some good, some bad. I’ve sorted them out now and arrived at a really nice picture with all the various sources.

I’ll say one thing though… UHD with HDR looks nothing like film. I got 10 Commandments and 2001 and they look spectacular, but nothing like I’ve ever seen film look. My HD projector does that better. But I guess with UHD, you’re going for the wow factor, so that’s ok.

 

[Davesrose]

No, DTS:X is DTS's version of Atmos. DTS Neural:X is like Dolby Surround. For Atmos/DTS:X, it's for a native track that has positional metadata. It constructs a 3D environment from the track's meta data to then map to whatever speaker config you have. With Surround/Neural it takes a 2/5/7.1 audio track to then process a means for mapping to your speaker setup (including how ever many height speakers you have). With my HT, I tend to have it set to DTS:X. Since there isn't much DTS:X content, it's normally in DTS Neural:X remapping a 2/5/7.1 track. It also switches to Dolby Atmos (Atmos/Surround mode) when I'm playing content that has a Dolby Atmos track. For my setup, I've found DTS Neural and some improved bass over Dolby Surround. So your soundbar is probably similar. It may not automatically switch to Dolby Atmos if you're in DTS:X/Neural. If that is the case, then it would just look at the 5.1 stream.

For HDR, I don't know how you can directly compare Dolby Vision or HDR10 since a video just has one video track. If your TV supports Dolby Vision, and the video has a Dolby Vision stream, the TV will use Dolby Vision as the source. If your TV doesn't support Dolby Vision, then it will read the track as HDR10. There is some 4K content that doesn't have any HDR...but fortunately there isn't many titles. The main advantage of 4K over 1080P is HDR.

Personally, I've found my calibrated OLED is the most film like display I've had. My plasma HDTV was good for color accuracy, but HDR has a dynamic range like film. With restored film, you see the brighter highlights and greater detail (due to the increased contrast range). The one thing that isn't film like is that the black point can be darker than a projected image on screen. Seems like my OLED has more picture options than yours. It also has a setting for compressing the contrast range (and making the black point a dark gray). I don't set it that way since I prefer optimal detail.

You might think 4K is just for "wow", but for film restorations, film has been scanned in 4K for many years. Years before consumer 4K came out (so the 4K source was remastered to 1080P). As a means for digital archiving, 4K is the best for 35mm film (as it has similar resolving power and dynamic range).

 

[sander99]

DTS X Neural, which is apparently DTS’s version of Atmos.

@Davesrose already kind of said it, but maybe this is a little bit clearer:
DTS X Neural would be the DTS X equivalent of the "DSU" (Dolby Surround Upmixer, that can upmix traditional 7.1, 5.1, and 2.0 to something with height channels).
(And like he said, DTS X is the DTS version of Dolby Atmos. Just now I read there is a difference though: DTS X is purely object based, I guess that means it doesn't use a channel bed like Atmos does?)

 

[Davesrose]

Just now I read there is a difference though: DTS X is purely object based, I guess that means it doesn't use a channel bed like Atmos does?)

Both DTS:X and Atmos are considered object based. Both are similar with consumer video in that the audio track has a 5/7.1 stream and a dynamic object stream. So a DTS:X track is also handled the same-if you have a receiver that supports DTS:X, it will read both the 7.1 stream and object stream to render a 3D environment. If your receiver doesn't support DTS:X, it will just see the 7.1 stream and play as DTS-MA. I'm going ahead and just saying DTS-MA (DTS's lossless) because the main medium that has DTS:X are a few UHD disc movies. Atmos is by far the more popular format, so 3D audio streaming is all DD+ Atmos.

 

[bigshot]

The DTS option doesn’t create a sound field like the Dolby one does. It’s more discrete and not as full sounding. So I leave the DTS off and use Dolby instead.

Dolby Vision is a pain in the ass. I have to toggle it on or off manually. I don’t see any improvement using it, so I keep that off.

 

[Davesrose]

Dolby Vision is a pain in the ass. I have to toggle it on or off manually. I don’t see any improvement using it, so I keep that off.

You can’t toggle Dolby Vision off or on. The video is either Dolby Vision or it’s not.

 

[bigshot]

My tv set requires manually turning Dolby vision on for each play. It’s deep in the menus, and after looking at a Dolby vision movie with and without, it just isn’t worth it. The difference is negligible and I prefer my settings in some respects to the Dolby vision defaults.

There are so many settings in sets nowadays that aren’t defined about what they do exactly, and there are so many variations as to how the individual tv sets implements them, it’s like learning all over again every time you get a new tv.

I've seen 2001 at the Cinerama Dome a bunch of times, including in 70mm. It never looked anything like the UHD disc. The UHD version is sharper with more detail, a much broader visual dynamic range, better colors, less grain, no negative dust or reel change marks, the sound is more defined and cleaner... it's better on every level. I don't understand why people say that UHD discs should look like film. That's like saying CDs should sound like LPs. If you can do it better than the old format, do it.

 

[Davesrose]

My tv set requires manually turning Dolby vision on for each play. It’s deep in the menus, and after looking at a Dolby vision movie with and without, it just isn’t worth it. The difference is negligible and I prefer my settings in some respects to the Dolby vision defaults.

There are so many settings in sets nowadays that aren’t defined about what they do exactly, and there are so many variations as to how the individual tv sets implements them, it’s like learning all over again every time you get a new tv.

Again, the actual video has a video track that's either Dolby Vision, HDR10, or no HDR. There is no switching them on or off: it's how the video is encoded. Most 4K TVs support Dolby Vision now (there were some Samsung and Sony TVs that opted for HDR10+ instead of Dolby Vision). For those TVs, they read it as HDR10. But for Dolby Vision TVs, they decode the video in Dolby Vision. If you change your TV's picture modes, they have different color, brightness, and frame interpretation settings (that you can try going further down to adjust those settings). Maybe you have a TV that has a "Dolby Vision" mode that's available when you're watching a title that's Dolby Vision instead of HDR. But if you switch to a different mode, the source is still Dolby Vision. If you use a streaming service, you'll see a title will be listed as Dolby Vision or it will be HDR. If it's a Dolby Vision signal, the TV is decoding Dolby Vision. If the title is listed as HDR, the TV is decoding it as HDR10.

My TVs can default to different picture modes depending on whether the video is Dolby Vision or HDR10. You can also save different picture settings for different inputs (though all my HDMI devices are run through my receiver going to the TV's ARC input). To have optimal picture quality, I have calibration videos that are both in HDR10 and Dolby Vision.

 

[bigshot]

My TV doesn’t automatically decode Dolby Vision. You have to go into the menus and switch it on and off manually. That’s what I’m trying to say, but maybe I’m not stating it clearly. It’s the same with DTS X Neural and Dolby Atmos. If you turn on DTS in the menu, you don’t get Atmos decoding and vice versa. It’s all one or the other. It’s one of the peccadillos of my set, but it’s ok because I prefer Atmos and plain vanilla HDR. So I leave it set that way. That way it does Atmos for sound and HDR 10+ for video.

 

[Davesrose]

I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself. When a video is encoded in Dolby Vision, it gets decoded has Dolby Vision. If you're in DTS:X mode, and if the audio is Dolby Atmos, then it just sees the 5.1 stream and upconverts to 3D audio. Same is true for "Dolby Atmos" mode if you are listening to stereo or 5.1: it then goes to "Dolby Surround" and upconverts to 3D audio.

What TV do you have, how are you watching UHD content? What particular movie titles are you watching?

 

[bigshot]

You aren’t listening again and you’re making yourself mad. Shall I try again or just skip it?

 

[Davesrose]

It seems it's you who aren't listening. Take for example audio. You claim you like Dolby Atmos more than DTS Neural:X. In a previous post, you mentioned having 10 Commandments and 2001. Those are both movies that have a 5.1 audio track. There is no Atmos track. So the "Atmos" sound mode is switched to "Dolby Surround" and sound converted to 3D. I thought that I'd ask what TV you have so that I can look up its picture modes and possibly help (because I have never encountered a TV that turns on or off Dolby Vision if the movie is Dolby Vision and its a TV that supports Dolby Vision).

But if you don't want to do that, and are happy with "Dolby Atmos" sound mode (that's not necessarily "Dolby Atmos"), and having whatever picture mode....that's fine. But please don't generalize that that would be the best settings for everyone else, or that it's a reference for everyone else with a 4K TV. My OLED, for example, will tell you what it's decoding when the video first starts. I have spent time going through proper calibration for both Dolby Vision content and HDR10 content.

 

[bigshot]

When I put in a Dolby Vision disc, my TV doesn’t play it in Dolby Vision unless I go into the menus and turn Dolby Vision on. When I eject the disc it defaults back to HDR 10. If I put the disc back in, it plays it in HDR 10 unless I go in and turn on Dolby Vision in the menu again. The default for my TV is Dolby Vision off.

Is that clearer? Or do you understand what I’m saying but you just don’t believe me?

Hisense 8K

And I never said my settings are for anyone else. You are picking a fight again and I’m not interested.