[FenderP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by isamu Hello and thanks for the reply FenderP. I will take those comments into consideration but let me ask you....have you by any chance heard any of Creative's players, specifically the "Jukebox" line? Like I said in my previous posts, I own the Jukebox 3 and would really like to know how it compares to the Kenwood player. Also you mentioned that the HD20GA7 has "nothing the odd echo thing you're talking about."....O.K. but what about certain DSP modes such as Concert Hall, Arena, Stadium, etc? Does it have those?

Nope, haven't auditioned any Creative players, and wouldn't unless they had gapless (which they don't). I have owned the Karma, JVC/Victor XA-HD500, and iAudio M3 players, and currently own a Sony Vaio Pocket. I've heard iPods as well. Sony still bests most out there with SQ (my opinion). The JVC is nice, but not gapless, but like the Kenwood, is aimed more at audiophiles.

Here's a link to the manual:
http://www.kingrecords-eshop.jp/eva_...60-5596-00.pdf

Here's a link to a doc with some sound modes which appear to be EQ settings:
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/do...610/dev115.htm

Edit - another link to a European review which shows the sound modes which definitely appear to be EQ settings
http://www.areadvd.de/hardware/2005/...player_2.shtml

 

[isamu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FenderP Nope, haven't auditioned any Creative players, and wouldn't unless they had gapless (which they don't). I have owned the Karma, JVC/Victor XA-HD500, and iAudio M3 players, and currently own a Sony Vaio Pocket. I've heard iPods as well. Sony still bests most out there with SQ (my opinion). The JVC is nice, but not gapless, but like the Kenwood, is aimed more at audiophiles. Here's a link to the manual: http://www.kingrecords-eshop.jp/eva_...60-5596-00.pdf Here's a link to a doc with some sound modes which appear to be EQ settings: http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/do...610/dev115.htm Edit - another link to a European review which shows the sound modes which definitely appear to be EQ settings http://www.areadvd.de/hardware/2005/...player_2.shtml

Thanks. Took a quick look at the PDF link. There's a section of English text but it only appers to cover the basics of operation. The other links are good but they're in a foriegn language which I obviously can't read, but I did notice the pictures of the sound modes in one pic....hmmm, didn't see "Concert Hall" there, but perhaps it's in a different sub-menu. Let me know if you find anything else

 

[isamu]

Hmm, I wonder what this does .....

 

[Oga]

What is the fuss here. If this "digital amp" meant anyhting about sound quality the thing would at least be capable of playing FLAC. WAV is not going to be used by anyone - its a waste of space. So clearly they dont intend this thing to play anything better than mediocre Mp3 and WMA files. Which unserlines that it is no "audiophile" piece...

 

[Chri5peed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oga WAV is not going to be used by anyone - its a waste of space.

I assume you mean its a waste of space literally, because any lossless file equals any other.

People with >250GB HDDs aren't going to be very bothered about saving lots of space.

 

[Bijl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by isamu Hmm, I wonder what this does .....

Looks like it controls bass and highs volume per side of the headphone.

 

[jant71]

Oga, kenwood realized the mistake which is why they added 10 gigs and a lossless codec. Although it is DRM lossless(probably FLAC encrypted with the .KMA extension). At least they try to fix things unlike Apple which might never have a custom EQ or Sony that can't seem to program on-the-fly playlists.

For me, it is bigger than I would like, I don't want the DRM crap anymore, and it doesn't have a strong enough headphone output. It also need better playlisting(50 songs is not enough). From what I get from the reviews, it doesn't sound good enough to overlook it's shortcomings in other areas.

 

[isamu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jant71 Oga, kenwood realized the mistake which is why they added 10 gigs and a lossless codec. Although it is DRM lossless(probably FLAC encrypted with the .KMA extension). At least they try to fix things unlike Apple which might never have a custom EQ or Sony that can't seem to program on-the-fly playlists. For me, it is bigger than I would like, I don't want the DRM crap anymore, and it doesn't have a strong enough headphone output. It also need better playlisting(50 songs is not enough). From what I get from the reviews, it doesn't sound good enough to overlook it's shortcomings in other areas.

Which unit are you referring to....the HD20GA7 or the HD30GA9? Did you actually audition the unit? If not, how do you know it doesn't have a strong enough headphone output?

Also here's what I wanna know. When you play a song on either the HD20GA7 or HD30GA9, does the song get stored in a sub folder called "Now Playing", "Currently Playing" or something similar? Basically what I'm asking is, how does the GUI allow you to manage the songs you are playing? Can you put say, 10 songs in a "folder" and play or arrange them in any order you want? Can you re-arrange the order at anytime while the current song is being played?

The reason I ask is because this is what the GUI is like in Creative's Nomad Jukebox 3 player and I am trying to figure out if their GUIs share anything in common.

 

[FenderP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jant71 Oga, kenwood realized the mistake which is why they added 10 gigs and a lossless codec. Although it is DRM lossless(probably FLAC encrypted with the .KMA extension). At least they try to fix things unlike Apple which might never have a custom EQ or Sony that can't seem to program on-the-fly playlists. For me, it is bigger than I would like, I don't want the DRM crap anymore, and it doesn't have a strong enough headphone output. It also need better playlisting(50 songs is not enough). From what I get from the reviews, it doesn't sound good enough to overlook it's shortcomings in other areas.

All reviews pretty much PRAISE the Kenwood for its sound quality. What reviews are you reading? I have yet to see a bad review. I also have yet to see a review saying its headphone out was weak as well.

It doesn't look big at all. Have you seen it in person? The one review of the HD20GA7 was compared with the iPod, and it was basically the same size. I mean, the Vaio Pocket is bigger, and that is by no means large. People have weird definitions of what small is to them.

Also most, if not all, DAPs employ some sort of DRM if it is produced by a major vendor. Apple, Sony, etc. Why is this a big problem? If Kenwood was the only one doing it, maybe I could see it, but like it or not, there is something to protecting intellectual property if possible.

 

[FenderP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by isamu The reason I ask is because this is what the GUI is like in Creative's Nomad Jukebox 3 player and I am trying to figure out if their GUIs share anything in common.

All DAPs are different. Sonys have a similar feel, Creatives do, Apples do ... but no manufacturer is exactly the same. So I would say that they don't share anything in common to be honest. Similar features, but not necessarily similar implementation.

 

[FenderP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oga What is the fuss here. If this "digital amp" meant anyhting about sound quality the thing would at least be capable of playing FLAC. WAV is not going to be used by anyone - its a waste of space. So clearly they dont intend this thing to play anything better than mediocre Mp3 and WMA files. Which unserlines that it is no "audiophile" piece...

FLAC is only implemented by a handful of players with the most notable being the Karma and the iAudio/Cowon ones. It's not as much of a standard as it is here on head-fi for a lot of folks here. Apple has their own lossless, Microsoft has their own, and now Kenwood has their own. Sony has their own (as of Sonic Stage 3.3). So what is the problem? Lossless is lossless with the same end result - just not as portable from place to place as FLAC. You may not like that they didn't implement FLAC, which is far from a standard in the industry, but I give Kenwood kudos for trying to give audiophiles a choice between WAV and MP3/WMA.

 

[hwanmeister]

Quote:

Originally Posted by root I'd like to believe in that as I'm interested in the player's SQ myself. But how can you tell so pending the DAP and having had little experience with other DAP's (or maybe you just haven't mentioned them). I've heard most of them (including X5 and 5th gen) and could not find a rival to just one and only iRiver player w/ rockbox (other DAP's of this very company can't compare as well). Also, the headphones you are using play at least an equally grave part (I've found in your profile ER-6i and you should remember that they are colored in a way and more treble-oriented when judging the rig). I'm waiting for your thoughts when you get the player as well as opinions of other head-fi'ers. And you are right, I'm never going to use any equalizer on my DAP; there's no such need (lossless/optical out, etc., as I said before).

I've mentioned in my review that I've previously owned iPod mini, Toshiba Gigabeat and Cowon X5L. The first two are not considered as particularly audiophile-favourable generally, and in any case I didn't have them with me when I was writing the review so any comparison with them would've only been from hazy memory. That's why I make extensive reference to X5L only.

iRiver h100-series + Rockbox is a player that I would defintely like to hear, given the high regard in which it is held here. If it does indeed sound better than X5 as you say, then it should be worth listening to. I did mention that I much prefer HD20GA7's sound to X5.

I used er6i and Shure e5c when I wrote the review. I somehow made no mention of the headphones I used in the piece, but in the future I should. I'm very aware that er6i has its peculiar quirks, but either with it or e5c HD20GA7 sounds terrific. There's no problem matching the player with different headphones as long as they are up to a certain standard.

The HD30GA9 I ordered is, apparently, due to arrive in the next couple of days, finally.

When the long-awaited moment comes, I'll be sure to post some first impressions.

 

[hwanmeister]

isamu, the pic you posted is the aforementioned 6-band custom EQ. On the left-hand side is, er, the bass

and the right-hand is the treble. Hard to explain in words, but basically you click into the bass/treble and move sideways to choose the bands.

jant71:
Quote:

Oga, kenwood realized the mistake which is why they added 10 gigs and a lossless codec. Although it is DRM lossless(probably FLAC encrypted with the .KMA extension). At least they try to fix things unlike Apple which might never have a custom EQ or Sony that can't seem to program on-the-fly playlists. For me, it is bigger than I would like, I don't want the DRM crap anymore, and it doesn't have a strong enough headphone output. It also need better playlisting(50 songs is not enough). From what I get from the reviews, it doesn't sound good enough to overlook it's shortcomings in other areas.

I agree that the headphone output isn't exactly the most boisterous out there, but it's more than enough for earbuds and IEMs. Headphones, on the other hand, might have a problem. The OTG playlisting's limit of 50 songs also is not ideal, but the fact that Kenwood has one is appreciable

Plus, if the playlist covers more than 50 songs, say 100 or more files, then isn't that a bit too much? It's supposed to be a collection of your favourite tunes. More than 50 and it's rather too comprehensive.

HD20GA7 (and - presumably - its sequel) is not a perfect player. It has its flaws, such as the lack of features and certain niggles here and there, but I disagree with you in that those flaws are handsomely compensated for by the sound quality. Kenwood isn't for everyone, but if you're willing to invest in it and experience the sound quality it's a very rewarding player.

 

[boodi]

now I want even more to know more opinions about SQ .
I'm looking in to eventually get it in a near future

 

[Trance-Addict]

does anyone know if the HD20GA7 supports windows media player 9 for use with hi res mp3's?