[Ninety]

After looking to pick up a "vintage" DAC from ebay over the past few weeks to use with my laptop's optical out, I'm considering other options - I guess too many people seem to be having the same idea and prices have gone up to the point where not much goes for less than GBP100.

I figure that all told, USB *will* be more convenient (especially as my laptop's SPDIF socket is mounted on the front...) so I started looking and found the Project USB Box (I see that this has just been mentioned on the 'All The DACs...' thread, but I thought the question was better asked out here). It appears to offer good value for money at GBP75 and it's got RCA outputs which is a big plus over the likes of the Trend UD10 Lite.

From the audio side, the specs look fine - I don't need something as high end as a Benchmark or the like as what I'm aiming for is to get as near as possible to the quality I get from my CD63 when it's through my Brio 2/MA Bronze 2s. My questions then are these:

Has anyone tried this DAC yet and how are they finding it?
Will the fact that this DAC uses USB 1.1 present any problems in normal operation?

I'd be really interested to know people's experiences, but failing that (once I'm in regular work again) I'll have to take the plunge...

 

[aurallyfit]

I'm also interested in this question, as I originally posted the USB Box to the "All DACs" thread.

I don't think the USB 1.1 will present any problems though - it just means the power source won't be carried through the USB cable, which is probably better for the sound quality anyway. Someone please correct me on this if I'm wrong.

 

[Ninety]

USB 1.1 still provides power, the difference between it and 2.0 is in the data transfer rates. The USB Box is (according to the Pro-ject website) powered by your machine's USB bus.

My question was basically asking whether the limited transfer rate would pose a problem with large lossless files.

 

[skamp]

USB 1.1's maximum data rate is 12 Mb/s (megabits per second). Compare that to CD-DA's data rate (1.4112 Mb/s). Even 24bit/96kHz stereo PCM has a data rate of "only" 4.608 Mb/s, and the DVD-Audio specification sets a maximum data rate of 9.6 Mb/s.

They wouldn't make USB1 DACs if it couldn't handle the bandwidth.

 

[Ninety]

Skamp - thanks for the figures, I didn't know them. Looks like a goer then, when I pick up some regular work and get some cash together...

 

[Ninety]

Well, I tried a Meridian 603 off the bay and it wasn't all that - this might have had something to do with my homemade interconnects, but I didn't swap around to find out (they checked alright on the meter).

Anyway, the upshot is that my local 2nd Hand Hifi dealer offered me a swap against a Pro-ject USB Box. It wasn't in stock...but now it is!

Picking it up tomorrow and I'll post my findings next week, just in case anyone's still interested...

 

[sbb]

Hello,
did you get your USB box, did you like it?
Cheers

 

[Ninety]

Sorry, yes and yes. With Christmas and a rather inconveniently timed operation, things got away from me a bit and I forgot to post back.

I've had the box set up through my Rega Brio 2 and Monitor Audio Bronze 2 (the plan is eventually to use it in a second system through my old amp and speakers when I move house), but only really to test.

Comparing it with my usual main source (Marantz CD63) my FLAC files through the USB Box actually sound better than the CD on my normal player! Perhaps this should be no surprise as I suppose my CD player's fairly budget and about 13 years old, but I didn't expect it. When I say 'better', I should clarify - comparing FLAC with CD, the FLAC through the USB box sounded clearer and more 'digital'; I'd liken the difference to that between vinyl and CD.

Due to current living arrangements, I've only rigged up the box to test it, so I can't report on extended listening yet. My first impressions though are good - the box feels well made and looks good (seems to be a thick, pressed steel chassis with an aluminium front plate), installation was no problem at all and it's got phono outputs which was a must have for me. For GBP75 I'm very impressed.

I'll get some longer term impressions when the system's set up full-time. In the meantime, if anyone's got any specific questions, ask away and I'll do my best to answer.

Thanks

90

 

[m001]

I asked about this piece of kit a few weeks ago in a thread that I started, shortly before buying one. I spent several days comparing it to a DAC Magic with an iMac and Apple Lossless files.

For what it's worth, I didn't discern a performance difference between the Pro-ject USB Box and the DAC Magic (connected to the iMac's optical digital output), but I'm not one that believes in significant differences between competently-designed DACs.

I ended up keeping the Pro-ject Box.

 

[Ninety]

m001, I'm glad you like it too. Agreed about the competently designed DACs thing too - my main criteria (after my vintage Meridian experiment) were cheap, brand I knew and phono outputs. The Pro-ject fits the bill...

 

[m001]

I suspect this is going to become a very popular USB DAC option.

 

[sbb]

thanks for your feedback guys!
I'm just looking for a line out output to replace the one that saturates on my good old Mac... this one is cheap, seems to sound well... If I can't find a better alternative, I might get one too!!!

 

[Ninety]

I got a PM the other day off rjoseph and I thought I'd post what was said in case it's of any use.

Further Impressions

Basically, I think the Pro-ject is pretty incredible. I'm driving some Monitor Audio Bronze 2s with a Rega Brio 2 amp with a Marantz CD63 as my main source (Qnect 2s for interconnects). Now, my CD player was a good GBP250 model when I bought it, admittedly about 13 years ago and it still sounds pretty good today. At least I thought it did...

I did some back to back testing between a CD, FLACs and 320kbps mp3s of the same recording though the Pro-ject - the results surprised me. To my ears, the Pro-ject won hands down - the music had more clarity, felt cleaner. I think I likened it before to the difference between CD and vinyl. If I'm being really picky, the Pro-ject errs toward the clinical, but not badly - I don't find it over harsh and it's not a tiring listen, but through a brighter amp/speaker combo it might be something worth considering. Soundstage and separation are both excellent as with the CD.

I also tested against the line-out on my SB Live through my amp and thankfully, both CD and DAC blew this out of the water - just to prove I wasn't going mad.

The build quality is excellent and it's a heavy little beast. The one fault I can pick with the Pro-ject is the use of a mini USB connector - I don't understand why they've done this as there's plenty of room for a full size socket and it wouldn't have been any more expensive. It's not a big deal, but if your cables have any tension on them it could go loose over time. I've fashioned a thick sheath out of some hard foam to go around the USB cable near the plug end to take some of the strain (hope that part makes sense) in case it gets knocked or pulled - since it's connected to the laptop it gets unplugged often.

As you can seen then, I'm quite a fan. I've not tried any other USB DACs as this one fit the bill on all levels (cheap, RCA outs, available from my local dealer who swapped it for some old kit) so it may be that the V-DAC, for instance, is twice as good. I doubt it though. My aim was for something that sounded as good as my CD player and this sounds better, so I'm happy! The one thing it has made me do is start looking for a new CD player though - it never stops...

Tech Info

The info on the website says it uses a Sigma chip, but Windows tells me Burr Brown. Opening the case reveals a Burr Brown PCM2702E chip, along with two 4.7microfarad caps (in bright red casing, marked Wima mks4). Other things I can pick out are an AD823A, two A106s(?), a small chip(?) marked 47-16L W4 and a silver baguette shaped piece marked 12.000N8. The case appears to be fashioned from bulletproof steel. I tried taking a photo, but my phone isn't good enough for any detail - there's not much there though, the board's about 3" x 1.5".

Hope this all helps, sorry if my component recognition isn't up to much!

 

[rjoseph]

Thanks 90. i pulled the trigger and am expecting one shortly.

 

[mopps]

Better look for a Terratec iVinyl. It supports 24bit/96kHz, instead of 16bit/48kHz of the Phono-Box.