[hptubes]

Long time reader, first time poster!
 
Summary question:  
 
Anyone been able to demo/review in person both the PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium HP's headphone output vs. the ALO Studio Six?  Or even better, anyone own or have owned both?  
 
I haven't seen ANYONE really review the PrimaLuna's headphone output, in forums or in more formal reviews.  None of the formal PrimaLuna reviewers seem to be headphone people, so they just say "...also has a great headphone output" and go into how it's specially designed to be fully tubed for headphones...but no comparisons to what I consider to be some of the benchmark headphone amps like the Studio Six, Auralic Taurus, Leben, etc., and didn't see any testing with top headphones.  The PrimaLuna HP is new-ish, perhaps the first amp they've produced with a headphone out, and so maybe it hasn't made it's way to headphone reviewers?  In my first week with it, I think I like it better than my Auralic in many ways...which in a way was a happy accident for me since I bought it primarily for my speakers.
 
...But in parallel I also think that the ALO might be a better headphone amp for my tastes than the Auralic, and so I'm curious to know how the PrimaLuna stacks up to the ALO before I consider dropping another $4K on another headphone amp when I already have what I think most would say are 2 very good to great headphone amps.  I don't seem to have any meets close by that might have an ALO for me to personally demo...I'm in Ohio.
 
Thoughts?
 
 
Background on me and my audio tastes and current systems:
 
 
My front-end for both speakers and headphones is all-digital with an Aurender N100 music server to Schiit Yggodrasil dac.  I can't say enough good things about this combo. By far the best front-end I've had and I've worked through a number of dacs and servers over the last 5 years.  This combo is by far the best I've had.
 
My main speaker rig has changed a bit over the last 6 months and I've found I'm VERY happy with the results...digital front-end mentioned above feeding my newly purchased PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium HP integrated to Zu Soul Supreme speakers.  I did a LOT of research on all of those components prior to each purchase, trying to get specific feedback on synergies between them, etc.  Fortunately, for the first time in my 10 years or so of really having nice equipment, the match between the 4 of these has been fantastic, and I'm content to sit with this equipment for awhile (told yourself that before too I'm sure!).  
 
As amps go, I therefore think I'm generally leaning to tubes in the price range I'm currently at ($3-5K amps).  I know that's a bit of a generalization/cliche, but I haven't found any SS amps in that $ range that make me feel I'm truly getting all that I want out of my system, both in speakers and in headphones.  This includes what I think are great amps from First Watt, SimAudio Moon, and Red Wine (the RWs being hybrids, obviously), among others.  Take that for what's it's worth...I know this is a highly subjective decision for everyone.  For the record, I do think the SS/hybrid amps I just listed were better than some of the tube amps I have, but just not the Transcendent Mini Beast and PrimaLunas, at least for my Zu speakers--those three were better.  I do think I liked the First Watt Sit2 better than the Transcendent SE OTL I have, and a Chinese SET amp from Dared. So in no way do I feel all tube amps are better than SS as a rule.  I also liked the SIT2 better than the 2 Red Wines I have.
 
 
While I'm still tube swapping on the PrimaLuna (now with KT120s, which are burning in but sounding great), this PrimaLuna is the best of all my amps for my Zus...just my opinion.  Throws the biggest soundstage with most detail and feels the most musical and live.  I am loving it.
 
So the PrimaLuna HP is going to be driving the speakers, but what also intrigued me is that I have been very impressed with it's headphone output (even though I think it and the tube swaps are still burning in), and I've started comparing it over the last 2 weeks to my current headphone amp (Auralic Taurus Mk 2) which I've had with the LCD-3s for the last year or so.
 
I landed on LCD-3s (fazor) and an Auralic Taurus Mk 2 after a lot of research and recommendations.  I upgraded the LCD cables to Alo Reference 16 and got some further improvement.  All of this matched with my digital front-end has been great...until I thought I liked the HP output from the PrimaLuna better...which got me thinking...
 
While I think I can see what everyone is loving about the LCD-3 and Auralic combo, it's not making me feel like I nailed the headphone thing for me yet.  The presentation is clear, detailed, musical, with good soundstage (headphone-wise), and fairly fast--but it still feels a little "thin" to me for as good as I think it should sound.  What I think the PrimaLuna provides is a little more "meat" and a little broader soundstage, with a little more timbre where it should be.
 
So that put me back to some original thoughts I had before--with how good the Studio Six is supposed to be, would I like it better than the Auralic, and also better than the PrimaLuna?
 
Help please!

 

[hptubes]

Bump--anyone?

 

[ginster6]

I will be unpacking my PL Int-amp HP, and be connection to Hifiman HE-6 , Sony z7, tonite.  I will be trying from both  front 1/4 HP jack, and rear direct speaker connection.
 
I will let you know shortly.

 

[hptubes]

I've been using this extensively for a few months now.  I continue to be impressed--in particular as I upgrade the tubes, the benefits flow to the headphone section as well, and as the source gets better, more goodness again.  Where I was really shocked was that with my new turntable and cartridge (albeit a $10K combo), the details exploded out of the headphones, but with a huge degree of musical qualities to boot (no "overly analytical" comments here).  I realized I loved both the headphones AND the the amp.  All the times I was slightly underwhelmed with the digital source, I think I was exactly that--underwhelmed with the digital source.
 
The other winner for me is that with 2 sources now and NO stereo or tape line outs on the PrimaLuna, it would be a pain to hook up a separate headphone amp fed by both sources while also feeding the speaker amps.
 
I'm very pleased, and may spend my next dollars on some other headphones like HE1000 or some good 'ole HD800s to explore the headphone world in greater detail--pun intended.

 

[Wharfrat]

Hello, HPTubes,
 
Have not been on Head-Fi forums for a while, primarily due to encountering folks at a local audio shop where I live who were very generous in their equipment audition program by allowing me to be seduced by a pair of Spendor S2/R3 speakers after I bought a Coffman GHA-1 pre/HP amplifier to breathe soul into a pair of Audio-Technica ADH-2000 cans.  I went down the speaker hole and have pretty much not listened music with the ATs except in another room via a recapped Pioneer SX-1250 (thanks, Skylab)....but now the Coffman has been servicing the Prima Luna Prologue 5 power amp with KT120 output tubes sourced by a Cayin ST-50 CD/Chord Qute dac or a SOTA Comet turntable.  I sold the Spendors within a nanosecond of hearing the Harbeth Super HL5+ speakers.  I have been pretty much living in a constant state of Mind/Body disconnect, so transporting is the music.   
 
Then the PL Prologue developed a transformer hum.....now back to my homeboys at the local audio shop...explained they'd be responsible for any grave harm I would suffer if I did not have my daily fix of tunes....and tubes.....so, with a wicked grin, he asks: you wanna borrow this....Harman Kardon Citation II....nah.....so I said :what about the PL Integrated HP amp you've had for a year gathering only nice comments....?"  "You wanna borrow it?  Sure....let me load it into your car....".
 
Hooked the PL up to the Coffman inboard phonostage because it did not have a phonoboard installed..when the Cayin/Chord played out, I embrassed myself....had to change pants.  Everything had texture...gone was the noise salad of yore....voices literally grabbed me and stuck their tongues in my ear so seductively, it was so unnerving because I had never heard music coming out of anything with such palpable ease and "thereness". Same for vinyl playback.  Mark Knopfler's voice on his newest LP  "Tracker" was rich and supple, like fine leather through the PL Integrated and his voice was not as well handled through the PL5. People speak of a haze being removed,,,now I got it!
 
Next, I tried the HP output on the PL.  My reference HP amp is the Coffman GH1-A, individually handmade by Damon Coffman in Portland, Ore.  The Coffman has oodles of detail, lushness, soundstaging, and best of all, a neutral, timbre-rich midrange where voices are just right in the mix where they would be in a live venue.
The HP from the PL integrated is absolutely fantastic....if there is any piece of tube equipment out there that has the number of source connections, high output wattage, choice of ultralinear or triode operation, and near-reference HP output as this Prima Luna product, somebody better fess up and share the joy with the rest of us.
 
For $4399, I am going to have to figure out how many of my toys has to go to a good home....I have a SX-1050, the 1250, Sennheiser 650s with Cardas cabling, and some other mid-grade gear to let go....the PL is in a class of its own for that amount of change and Herman Vandendungen deserves much more acclaim stateside than he has received.  I encourage Head-Fiers to try the PL for its HP capabilities....the design is such that the output tubes driving the speaker taps are directly connected to the HP with a resistor relay to attenuate the speaker output, much like the mid-70's silverplate vintage receivers were designed
 
Thanks for starting this thread and sharing,,,,

 

[hptubes]

Wharfrat--
 
Super write-up and thank you for rekindling this thread--I had actually forgotten about it to be honest.  Congrats on the lucky stumble...
you will be quite pleased with the PL HP, I predict.
 
This will be a quick write-up for now as I have not done extensive side-by-side testing since a couple purchases and upgrades, but since I wrote this earlier post I've made the following related purchases:
 

1. KT150 tubes for the PL HP--highly, highly recommended, as it is "even more of the more goodness" over the KT88s and KT120s without any downsides as far as I can tell...aside from the additional cost of 8 of those tubes!  Oh, and the tube cage doesn't fit on the PL HP any longer with these big fellows sticking up.  Very worthy upgrade if you already love the PL with any KTs.
2. HIFIMAN HE1000s--I never loved my Audeze LCD-3Fs, certainly not with the amps I had before the PL HP.  I was doubtful I'd like the HE1000s that much better.  I did.  I won't review them here because I need to do more critical listening and note taking to justify any written comparisons.  They're just better to me and many reviewers and posters seem to indicate the same preference.  Super, super smooth, and a hell of a pairing with the PL HP.
3. McIntosh MHA100--I kept running into recommendations online for this paired with the HE1000s.  I've never owned a Mac piece of gear before and always wanted to try some.  Found a rare used one and snatched it.  It's really, really good with the HE1000s.  I'll say phenomenal.  Better than the PL HP?  I don't know yet.  Both are way, way more engaging than the Auralic Taurus II with either HE1000 or LCD-3F headphones.  I don't care to keep looking for a used Studio Six or even Apex at this point--the two amps I have are phenomenal.  In short, I think one could be overwhelmingly pleased with either.  I'll do some more detailed side-by-sides and post back my thoughts.

 
I would encourage you to make a KT150 upgrade at your next "itch"...I can't imagine it not being a pleasing upgrade for you with the PrimaLuna HP.
 
I can certainly wholeheartedly recommend the HE1000s and MHA100 amp as well for others.  More to come on those.

 

[ginster6]

I second the KT150. The integrated-HP replaced my premium dialodge mono block with GL KT88.
now I have itch to sell the integrated-HP and get back into the monoblock HP with KT150.

 

[Wharfrat]

@hptubes and ginster6,
 
Thanks for your comments...I have had more time with the PL and Harbeth combo and have to say it is magical at times with the right recording.  Funny you should mention an upgrade "itch"...as it turned out, I wanted an improvement over the Audio Technica AD2Ks without sacrificing the midrange texture I relish through tube amplifiers and after 4 years of looking, I found a MINT pair of AT W3000ANV headphones...they still need break-in time as the original purchaser simply bought them as an investment (he did not lose any money on the deal, I can tell you) and probably listened to them less than 30 hours...
 
With the Coffman G1-A and PrimaLuna doing amplifier duty, the ATs really are so much more musical.  But I had a shot at the LCD-3s and thought they were very lovely sounding.  When my  HE-6s come back from the repair factory in China, I will make the call as to whether to go with the LCDs or wait a few years for the HE1000s to drop in price...
 
But I am ready for a new house sound....LCD-4s are an option but I have not had a chance to hear them mated well with an good amp.

 

[Zoom25]

I'm also interested in this amp for headphone purposes. Anyone try it out with HD 800 or other feedback?

 

[kydu]

Primalunas head amp is world class!!!

 

[silversurfer6]

Has anybody compared the Dialogue Premium HP'S headphone amp to a similarly priced dedicated headphone amp?
 
Or maybe more reviews specifically about the Dialogue Premium HP's headphone performance?

 

[kydu]

The Primaluna HP blows away my benchmark dac2 in resolution, soundstage layering, and micro detail.

 

[groovyd]

Bought a PL HP just a few weeks ago for my LCD-X but since I coincidentally shipped the X off to Riga for Sonarworks calibration a month ago and they seem to be stuck in the post somewhere the only cans I have gotten a chance to use it with are my T5p which yeah not the best pairing A bit too sensitive for such a powerful amp i can hear some background buzz at mid volume which is impossible to reach anyway as it would destroy the drivers in a second. Typically listen at quarter volume and it is quite strong. I like the sound so far and can't wait to try it with the X if I ever get them back. Using the stock tubes. Not using the speaker outs for anything at the moment. Considering the KT150s but the thing already burns over 300 watts (to drive 1/4 watt to my headphones) maybe it doesn't need any more power Imagining it must drive the LCD-4 beautifully. Might need to upgrade my headphones to something hard to drive.

 

[Lsmdsc2]

I have both and Studio Six wins hands down in the headphone department

 

[Lsmdsc2]

It’s not a fair comparison though. They both cost about the same and the Studio Six is dedicated headphone amplifier. Primaluna is an excellent integrated amplifier with a really good headphone section.