[Zorander]

Dear Headfiers,

Prior to acquiring the Solo amp (with the Creek OBH-21 as my then main amp), I listened exclusively to the HD-650 and regarded it as the best-sounding headphone/combo. Now that the Solo has taken over the Creek's job, I find myself listening more to the K601, which is odd as I never could fall in love with the AKG sound, whether with the Creek or any other headamps I had. It is so seducing I could not stand not listening to the K601/Solo combo for long.

I don't want to make this thread sound like a praise of the Solo's synergy with the K601 (but it definitely looks that way and yeah, I'll just reiterate it once: this combo beats my Creek+Senn pair in terms of pretty much everything). Interestingly the K601 on the Solo also sounds better than the HD-650 on the Solo. I find it hard to accept that I am now preferring a "lower-class" (price-wise) cans and that my favourite Sennheiser cans is spending more time on the stand than my head now. Apart from the veil (something I heard for the first time with the Solo - the Creek is apparently a forward-sounding amp and thus dealt with the veil effectively), the HD-650 also sounded a tad bassy on the Solo with a rather distant presentation. Here's the question: should I upgrade the stock Senn cable and the Van den Hul The Bay C5 interconnect I am currently using? I have been considering Headphile silver cable replacement in the hope of 'cleaning up the bass' and 'compact the soundstage a bit'.

Please don't recommend me a K701 as I am not financially ready for that and am happy enough with the (supposedly more neutral) K601.

Cheers!

 

[nabwong]

Hey,

It's normal for one headphone to sound go with an amp and not with another. It's called synergy. I'm not sure if it's good or bad that you realise this. I'm starting to realise this and it's quite bad for me....$$$ out the window. Sheesh. Maybe you need another cable for the 650? Maybe you need another amp. It depends on you.

 

[iban]

edit

 

[PinkFloyd]

It's Graham's fantastic CDO technology that's behind this (Current Drive Output)

No matter what the headphone impedance is, the Solo output stage produces the same high output which is converted to a current and automatically adjusts to give the same power into any headphone impedance. I also notice, with the K-501, that the Solo is about the only amp I enjoy them with, it drives them with absolute ease and authority.

So, the answer to your question is simple...... "CDO" that's why

Quote:

the HD-650 also sounded a tad bassy on the Solo with a rather distant presentation. Here's the question: should I upgrade the stock Senn cable and the Van den Hul The Bay C5 interconnect I am currently using?

What version of the Solo do you have? Not many people require less bass but it's easy to tweak the Solo a bit to roll the bass of a tad. I've been currently replicating Graham's latest little tweaks to the 2007 ROHS (lead free) Solo and can tell you that the bass response is nothing short of perfect on it. There are a few little bits and bobs that be done to the "leaded" versions and they're pretty simple to impliment, a lot more cost effective than throwing cable at it IMO.

Do you leave your Solo on all the time? This is one amp that must be left on 24/7/365 as it really does take a good while for it to fully "fire up" from cold.

All the best.

Mike.

 

[Gradofan2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorander Dear Headfiers, Prior to acquiring the Solo amp (with the Creek OBH-21 as my then main amp), I listened exclusively to the HD-650 and regarded it as the best-sounding headphone/combo. Now that the Solo has taken over the Creek's job, I find myself listening more to the K601, which is odd as I never could fall in love with the AKG sound, whether with the Creek or any other headamps I had. It is so seducing I could not stand not listening to the K601/Solo combo for long. I don't want to make this thread sound like a praise of the Solo's synergy with the K601 (but it definitely looks that way and yeah, I'll just reiterate it once: this combo beats my Creek+Senn pair in terms of pretty much everything). Interestingly the K601 on the Solo also sounds better than the HD-650 on the Solo. I find it hard to accept that I am now preferring a "lower-class" (price-wise) cans and that my favourite Sennheiser cans is spending more time on the stand than my head now. Apart from the veil (something I heard for the first time with the Solo - the Creek is apparently a forward-sounding amp and thus dealt with the veil effectively), the HD-650 also sounded a tad bassy on the Solo with a rather distant presentation. Here's the question: should I upgrade the stock Senn cable and the Van den Hul The Bay C5 interconnect I am currently using? I have been considering Headphile silver cable replacement in the hope of 'cleaning up the bass' and 'compact the soundstage a bit'. Please don't recommend me a K701 as I am not financially ready for that and am happy enough with the (supposedly more neutral) K601. Cheers!

Don't know about the Solo or the K601's, but I do know what the Zu cable will do for the HD650's that the Senn v2 Black Silver does not (I have both cables). With the right setup the Zu cable will absolutely transform the HD650's into outstanding phones - much faster, brighter, clearer, and with much tighter, more defined bass and lower mids. See my signature for "the right setup" - I'm sure there are others, but with my setup the HD650/Zu combo is simply incredible.

GF2

 

[warpdriver]

In your case, you found a headphone and amp that provides the magic you are looking for. You could analyze it to death, but in the end, you still won't know why exactly the 601's just work better with the Solo than your other combo.

A lot of things don't always make perfect sense. Don't question it, just enjoy it

 

[Zorander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PinkFloyd It's Graham's fantastic CDO technology that's behind this (Current Drive Output) No matter what the headphone impedance is, the Solo output stage produces the same high output which is converted to a current and automatically adjusts to give the same power into any headphone impedance. I also notice, with the K-501, that the Solo is about the only amp I enjoy them with, it drives them with absolute ease and authority. So, the answer to your question is simple...... "CDO" that's why

Now I don't get this: what does CDO have to do with making the AKG sound better than the Senn? I understand how CDO enables same volume level (at the same volume pot setting) for different phone impedances, but not on synergy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PinkFloyd What version of the Solo do you have? Not many people require less bass but it's easy to tweak the Solo a bit to roll the bass of a tad. I've been currently replicating Graham's latest little tweaks to the 2007 ROHS (lead free) Solo and can tell you that the bass response is nothing short of perfect on it. There are a few little bits and bobs that be done to the "leaded" versions and they're pretty simple to impliment, a lot more cost effective than throwing cable at it IMO. Do you leave your Solo on all the time? This is one amp that must be left on 24/7/365 as it really does take a good while for it to fully "fire up" from cold.

The amp should be the latest version (this year's in fact) and yup, I leave it on all the time (as I did to the Creek previously). I might be interested in getting the amp upgraded to the 2007 version, if the improvement is worth the investment anyway.

Not saying that the Senns sound bad with the Solo (it's great nonetheless - even if a bit bassy and "distant" for my liking). It's just that the AKG has taken the top place in my heart when paired with the Solo. But I am not willing to give up on the Senn and wondering if a cable upgrade might address these (minor) issues I'm having with the Senns. Anyhow, I'll give the Senns more listening time (and let my ears burn-in to them more) and see how my finding changes by then.

Cheers!

 

[Zorander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 Don't know about the Solo or the K601's, but I do know what the Zu cable will do for the HD650's that the Senn v2 Black Silver does not (I have both cables). With the right setup the Zu cable will absolutely transform the HD650's into outstanding phones - much faster, brighter, clearer, and with much tighter, more defined bass and lower mids. See my signature for "the right setup" - I'm sure there are others, but with my setup the HD650/Zu combo is simply incredible. GF2

I had a SD Senn cable previously and while I found it overly bright with the Creek/HD650 combo, I suspect it will work far better with the Solo/HD650 combo. I'm sure the Mobius cable should work as well or even better too. However, the SD cable was ridiculously microphonic & inflexible -which drove me crazy- and I believe the Mobius suffers from the same trait.

I already have two candidates for the Senn cables (taking into account price and microphonics) and they are the Headphile and [AK]Zip's. However, of the latter I understand that he is fully backed-up at the moment, which leaves only the Headphile (which I have been informed is available). Can anyone suggest me other Senn cable makers that offers sub-$150 price (I am not into jewellery-priced cables) and microphone-free cables?

Cheers!

 

[Zorander]

I gave the Solo/HD650 another listen and I think I've isolated the sole cause for my dissatisfaction with this combo. It's the low-bass response! It's a bit strong (where K601's is gracious/agile) and creeps into the upper frequencies (which are otherwise as great as I remember it and which I can hear still betters the K601's).

Short of an amp upgrade/modification, I think a cable upgrade to the Senn is a more cost-effective idea. I'll be blunt: which Senn cable will give the leanest bass (while giving reasonable SQ improvement over the stock cable)?

Cheers!

 

[Gradofan2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorander I gave the Solo/HD650 another listen and I think I've isolated the sole cause for my dissatisfaction with this combo. It's the bass! It's rather thick/big for my taste (overhanging where K601's is gracious/agile). The upper frequencies are otherwise as great as I know this headphone is capable of (and which I can hear still betters the K601's). Short of an amp upgrade/modification, I think a cable upgrade to the Senn is a more cost-effective idea. I'll be blunt: which Senn cable will give the leanest bass (while giving reasonable SQ improvement over the stock cable)? Cheers!

The Zu cable will not diminsh the bass, but will tighten it up and improve the definition, assuming the rest of the set up is right. The Senn v2 BS won't reduce the amount of bass either, but seems to emphasize the highs a bit compared to the bass. And... the highs are bright with both cables, and the sound is more forward / aggressive - much more like the Grados - so, if you like a more mellow sound, look elsewhere. The Cardas (at about $140) also brightens the HD650's a bit and ads some body and weight, while still tightening the bass a bit - it's just a bit warmer than the Zu.

Of course these observations are made with the foam linings removed, which also makes the HD650's faster, brighter, clearer and more aggressive / forward.

Both the Cardas and the Zu are a bit inflexible, and they transmit "rustling" sounds when you move (just the minor external sound of the cable rubbing other materials, no effect on the sound being played by the phones) - that's never been a problem for me - the sound is so great.

But... if you're looking for less bass, you're unlikely to reduce it much with any cable / setup - but, you can increase the emphasis on the highs and tighten the bass, which improves the balance, and makes them seem much faster, brighter, clearer and more aggessive / forward - much like the RS-1's - certainly not "laid back" and "refined."

If you're looking for the Senn sound, with a bit less bass, and a faster / brighter / airier sound - try the HD600's with the Cardas, Zu, or Senn v2 BS cable, with the foam linings removed and the right set up - truly outstanding also, but with a little less pronounced bass and lower mids. These really sound much more open, without the bass emphasis. I think I prefer the Cardas with the HD600's because it ads some nice tone body / weight and warmth, while leaving them still fast / bright and airy.

 

[3lusiv3]

Zorander, it seems to me that the HD 650 are not the sound signature that you like.

 

[Zorander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3lusiv3 Zorander, it seems to me that the HD 650 are not the sound signature that you like.

The total reverse actually! I am in love with the Senn sound and still love it even now. Trouble is, I find the K601 absolutely enthralling on the Solo, so much more than the HD650! Now if only the low-bass response of the Senn (which, mind you, is very clean) can be lessened just a little bit, that will be great.

Back to burning-in my ears.

 

[spaceconvoy]

It's your preference because you prefer it, right?

There doesn't have to be any logic behind it - IMO, "synergy" is just another way of saying "voodoo"

 

[cmirza]

Every component has its own personality, whether it be agressive or laid back, or bright or dark. Synergy to me is when you pair components that are complimentary. Like laid back HD600s with an aggressive AD8397 based amp. Or agressive Grados with a laid back OPA627 based amp. You probably won't get synergy pairing some laid back headphones with a laid back amp, or aggressive headphones with an aggressive amp (unless your taste is for a certain extreme). But synergy isn't really a universal thing either, since everyone has different tastes, its just finding the sound that you like.

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorander Now I don't get this: what does CDO have to do with making the AKG sound better than the Senn? I understand how CDO enables same volume level (at the same volume pot setting) for different phone impedances, but not on synergy.

You could call the amp pumping enough juice into the K-701 to make them perform at their best "synergy" or you could just call it meaty enough to power the K-701 to their full potential, I think it's the "juice" the K-701's like here.

Edit: sorry... the K "601"