[NeObliviscaris]

To all Predator owners, or maybe even a general portable amp question:

Does your Predator sound great from the moment you switch on, or does it take a while to kick in?

I have a Predator with over 500 hrs on it, and I find when I first plug in, it sounds mediocre, but after about 20 minutes it hits a sweet spot and really shines.

Has anyone experienced this? Also interested if any Pico owners have noticed this at all.

 

[jamato8]

Sure, there is a settling time for the chips when they have voltage and current applied to them. Once they are warmed up, as much as they do anyway, the sound normally would be better. For me a tube amp takes 30 minutes or so and sometimes an hour. Solid state can take an hour or sometimes I just don't pay attention but then notice the sound has become better with a little passage of time. If left on then I don't notice this, which is why I often leave solid state on.

 

[hughwi]

I have noticed this to quite a large degree with my little dot tube amp, but not so much with my pico.

 

[jamato8]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hughwi /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have noticed this to quite a large degree with my little dot tube amp, but not so much with my pico.

There is much more going on with the thermal dynamics on the tube amp than the Pico so this would seem very reasonable.

 

[NeObliviscaris]

Yeah I totally understand the Tube amp, but I am concerned as to why it's evident in the Predator!

 

[jamato8]

Well again it also comes down to the capacitor and everything else in the circuit. Even though the cap is formed, if you have enough hours on it. when turned off there is no charge on the cap and there is some changes that occur when there is no charge. With the charge back on the cap there is a slight forming that occurs with the charge/electron flow. I have found this takes a few minutes to 20 or so, depending upon the amp or whatever I am using.

 

[22906]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamato8 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well again it also comes down to the capacitor and everything else in the circuit. Even though the cap is formed, if you have enough hours on it. when turned off there is no charge on the cap and there is some changes that occur when there is no charge. With the charge back on the cap there is a slight forming that occurs with the charge/electron flow. I have found this takes a few minutes to 20 or so, depending upon the amp or whatever I am using.

As a student, this seems like a VERY questionable statement to me (bordering on completely absurd). It simply does not make sense for a capacitor's electrical properties to actually CHANGE appreciably within a span of 20 minutes. Maybe for tube amps it is a valid claim because the properties may be related to temperature. But for solid-state amplifiers, there needs to be a more substantial scientific basis for this result for me to believe it.

 

[jamato8]

Quote:

Originally Posted by m3_arun /img/forum/go_quote.gif As an electrical engineering student, this seems like a VERY questionable statement to me (bordering on completely absurd). It simply does not make sense for a capacitor's electrical properties to actually CHANGE appreciably within a span of 20 minutes. Maybe for tube amps it is a valid claim because the properties may be related to temperature. But for solid-state amplifiers, there needs to be a more substantial scientific basis for this result for me to believe it.

I have read papers of the designs of caps and corresponded with a few manufactures, one being Audio Note UK, that are in agreement with this and that it parallels their findings. Absurd? It was once thought and still is by some, that the earth was flat. I am not going to pull the white papers on this work as it has been discussed many times before but it is there. You don't have to believe it. If you are a student of electrical engineering then I would hope you would question, well we should all always question and not just follow.

 

[leftnose]

I have a Tomahawk which is similar to the Predator in that it has a large capacitor. I find the longer the amp is on, the better it sounds. It gets punchier and bigger. There are times when I have forgotten to turn it off at the end of the day and it sits on all night long. It sounds great in the morning!

 

[Kel Ghu]

I don't find that surprised and it's absolutly not non-sense.

where E is the permittivity. The permittivity of a dielectric changes with the temperature. So if the temperature changes a lot, the Capacitance should change too.

 

[robojack]

I have to agree, since my Tomahawk also tends to sound much better if i left it on for longer. When I first turn it on (especially on a colder day), it sounds tinny and somewhat weak.

 

[NeObliviscaris]

RoboJack - that is what I am experiencing with the Pred. First on, and its tinny and blech, but after the 20 mins its fantastic!

 

[jp11801]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kel Ghu /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't find that surprised and it's absolutly not non-sense. where E is the permittivity. The permittivity of a dielectric changes with the temperature. So if the temperature changes a lot, the Capacitance should change too.

where this goes astray is the amp itself does not put off much heat. So for example you are outside in NYC in the winter the outside temp is going to effect the amp more than the small bit of heat the amp generates. After just a few minutes the internals are about as warm as they are going to be whereas if the user goes outside on a hot or cold day that is going to impact an amp of this type much more, nice equation though

 

[Kel Ghu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jp11801 /img/forum/go_quote.gif where this goes astray is the amp itself does not put off much heat. So for example you are outside in NYC in the winter the outside temp is going to effect the amp more than the small bit of heat the amp generates. After just a few minutes the internals are about as warm as they are going to be whereas if the user goes outside on a hot or cold day that is going to impact an amp of this type much more, nice equation though

You're probably right. I don't know how it exactly it thermally behave and I know even less on its effect on sound. I am more familiar with electrochemistry, but even in liquid phase, I don't think it would take that long to be in steady state.

 

[NeObliviscaris]

Interesting. I will have to get into the habit of warming it up now.

On another note, I ordered a new case from Ray for my Pred.

I ordered silver, and he sent me the Red/Gold one with SN 888! LoL - I have seen it around Head-Fi somewhere, so gotta organise to get the silver off him now!