[twodeko]

after completing my first CMOY (can be found here) i decided that it was decent but i wanted to tackle another DIY project and thought i would try the PPAv2.

i know the reference site has a recommended parts list but i thought i would ask here what all goes into the PPA and what parts i should start looking for. after looking at some pictures and seeing what looked like a raised buffer board (diamond buffers?), i noticed that it wasn't in other PPA's and was wondering what it was for one, and what type of buffer is considered better.

this will more than likely be a project that i will spend a bit of time working on so i thought i would go ahead and ask for Hi-Fi part recommendations while i wait for the PCB to be released and to take my iron out. price estimates would be wonderful too.

this will more than likely be the project that throws me into DIY'ing a bit more, the cmoy was fun... now for more of a challenge

 

[bg4533]

PPAv2 isnt out yet. The boards you see are PPAv1. You can use the IC buffers it was designed for a diamond buffers (the raised boards you saw) that became popular a little more recently. With v2 the diamond buffers are on board. You really don't have a choice of what to use.

I don't think there is a part list available for v2 yet. PPAs probably cost from $150 to $400+ to build. A big thing will be what PSU and case you use. An Elpac costs $30 and you can generally use a $20 hammond case for the amp. The Steps PSU costs more like $75 and most people use $50 Par Metals cases with it. I am not sure how much buffer parts cost for the new board.

 

[twodeko]

thanks for the reply bg!

looking around the internet i couldnt find much in terms of those parts, i was just curious because i have been seeing people selling components and i was wondering if i should start looking. i love doobooloo's setup with the PSU inside the case... its just that since i am starting with all this i am not too sure where to begin looking

 

[bg4533]

Are you in the US? If so you should be able to get most everything you need from Digikey and Mouser.

What parts are you having trouble finding?

I presume you have already seen Tangents PPA documentation. It has part numbers for everything from Digikey and Mouser.

Cases are a bit different and are where you can get creative. Standard Hammonds are fine if you want. Doobooloo created his case himself. A few other members have also done this. Most people just buy one though.

 

[llmobll]

Basically follow Tangents site for the basic components, as most will be the same on V2. However the board is still in the tweaking process and they are still chaning the layout. I would follow the Official ppa v2 thread and you will get an idea of what they are leaving out and adding. I think the best places to tweak are:

1. The case, decide if you want a TEPS powersupply or are you going with a Elpac. If you want a TEPS you need to look for a bigger case that can fit both. Or you can always go with 2 cases the options are endless.

2. Decide if you want a higher end PPA or lower end. This made a bigger difference on which components I bought. Items such Volume control, you need to decide if you just want an Alps or something a little better such as an Attenuator, Things of this nature.

Lastly your build should be fun, but since you are just starting out with a design that isn't complete be prepared to get really lost. Most of the people who are in the ppa V2 thread have already built PPA's. So if you have the patience you should be fine.

good luck

 

[twodeko]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bg4533 Are you in the US? If so you should be able to get most everything you need from Digikey and Mouser. What parts are you having trouble finding? I presume you have already seen Tangents PPA documentation. It has part numbers for everything from Digikey and Mouser. Cases are a bit different and are where you can get creative. Standard Hammonds are fine if you want. Doobooloo created his case himself. A few other members have also done this. Most people just buy one though.

I am from the US and am familiar with Digikey and Mouser, but after looking around in tangents site i saw the STEPS power supply and think i might take that on but i am not sure what voltage levels the PPA can take. some more research is needed. its more or less the higher end parts that i want to know what i can tweak.

Quote:

Originally Posted by llmobll Basically follow Tangents site for the basic components, as most will be the same on V2. However the board is still in the tweaking process and they are still chaning the layout. I would follow the Official ppa v2 thread and you will get an idea of what they are leaving out and adding. I think the best places to tweak are: 1. The case, decide if you want a TEPS powersupply or are you going with a Elpac. If you want a TEPS you need to look for a bigger case that can fit both. Or you can always go with 2 cases the options are endless. 2. Decide if you want a higher end PPA or lower end. This made a bigger difference on which components I bought. Items such Volume control, you need to decide if you just want an Alps or something a little better such as an Attenuator, Things of this nature. Lastly your build should be fun, but since you are just starting out with a design that isn't complete be prepared to get really lost. Most of the people who are in the ppa V2 thread have already built PPA's. So if you have the patience you should be fine. good luck

I would love to include the power supply in the case with the PPA, a larger case would not be too much of an issue. more reason to build something else. i was looking into the attenuators and started to pick up on the differences, but is there anything that really makes them stand out? I also would love to put some effort into making it a high quality project with parts and time spent so i'm willing to give it time.

This is mainly for fun, but i was considering picking up a pair of ATH A900's and would love a nice high quality/fidelity amp to drive them. after reading a bit through the ppav2 thread, i was a little lost but since i have some time browsing around here and reading has been helpful... but advice works too

 

[bg4533]

I have learned from experience that it is better to really learn what you are talking about before you decide to tweak things. If you still don't know what voltages a PPA will take I think you are getting a bit ahead of yourself focusing on tweaks.The PPA docs are a good starting place. Build a basic PPA using the listed parts. If you feel the need either upgrade it or sell it and build a new one.

The voltages a PPA will handle will be based mainly on the opamps. Most opamps handle up to around 36V. The max for the AD8620 is 26.3V I believe.

 

[llmobll]

I think he was talking mainly about "options" more than tweaks, i guess i used the wrong term here. Anyway i think a PPAv2 isnt' a far fetched idea even if you haven't built a PPAv1. I've looked of the schemetic of the v2 and it's basically the same thing. If you follow tangents article and double check what parts have changed with the Offical V2 webpage(i dont' have the link, its around here somewhere) you could totally throw one together.


The biggest problem you will have is that since you dont' have a board you can't really buy parts and build it step by step. When i did mine it took about 2 weeks of casual reading and 1 week of really getting a part list going to finalize the whole thing. Since they are making cosmetic changes to the board who knows when they will release an official Manufactured board, and this will probably hold things up for you. The PPA is probably a medium build, the case work is just as difficult if you really want to get fancy.

Edit: Just use the AD8610 opamps they sound the best.(Personal Plug, you will need 3)

Definitely put in the Bass Boost but SKIP the crossfeed, unless thats your type of bag.

 

[@sia@home]

Thing is, how many weeks of PPA v1.1b boards does tangent have left?

Pretend he has the complete design of PPA v2 100% ready, a few working beta amps out there, and a few other *mates* with working amps based on the final design.

It would be financial suicide if he had 100-200 PPA boards sitting there, then to put PPA v2 stuff up on his website. I doubt very strongly that anyone here that knows about PPAv2 will buy anymore ppa v1.1b boards.

So he needs to keep the rest of the world (re non-headfiers) in the dark until he sells most if not all of the other amp boards.

 

[Syzygies]

While there's an overlap, I think it would be entirely reasonable for Tangent to sell PPAv1.1b as a proven design, and offer board "sets" consisting of two v1.1b boards and a v2 board to seasoned builders who'd like to be in on the bleeding edge figuring out how to populate the v2's. At first, this forum is a better place to read and discuss these issues. I'd pretend to be such a seasoned builder to get the v2 board; what I do with the v1.1b boards is my business. Even with this "tax", v2 would be less expensive to build because of the buffers.

Look, I hope he makes a bit of money, and his clever pricing structure ("gee, where should I buy my SMD buffers?") suggests that he does, while at the same time putting smiles on our faces. Nevertheless, Tangent's work, and all of our designers' work, is public service to spread the DIY passion. Our forum has the open-source spirit of Linux. Instead of talking about "self interest" here like we're a bunch of economists, why don't we organize a group buy to clean him out?

 

[@sia@home]

I really like the way these forums are run to be honest.

I've no problem with anyone making any money. I loved my mints when I finally got them, only just finished my first pimeta and I'm extremely impressed.

I would however like to one day have a crack at my own mint clone one day.

I know it can be done better, it would be much much easier in the way that I'd make it so you didn't need to cut the pcb, but harder in the way of only using SMD components, and leaving out many features of the board.

I'm sure the whole layout can be fitted onto one 2 sided board, while emitting input caps, the biasing, R8, R11 buffer bandwidth as these are non vitals IMHO.

 

[tangent]

Quote:

it would be entirely reasonable for Tangent to sell PPAv1.1b as a proven design

Tangent plans to be quite reasonable, and sell v1.1 and v2 concurrently. There is no conspiracy to withold v2 until v1.1 is gone. We now have what we hope is the final v2 prototype, which we will test thoroughly before we decide to press the 'go' button on final boards. We aren't rushing this, and you shouldn't wish for us to.

Quote:

I'm sure the whole layout can be fitted onto one 2 sided board

No doubt, but that will sacrifice DIYability, an important feature to me. I looked at trying to redesign the MINT before my most recent board re-order, and there really isn't too much cramming to be done short of the drastic changes you talk about.

 

[steinchen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tangent ... We now have what we hope is the final v2 prototype, which we will test thoroughly before we decide to press the 'go' button on final boards ...

where can I subscribe to the beta test program ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by @sia@home ... while emitting input caps, the biasing, R8, R11 buffer bandwidth as these are non vitals IMHO

imo biasing definately is vital, you get a huge performance leap for only 2 to 3mA, even in portables this is no problem.

the bandwidth mode has a large impact on current draw with buf634: 2mA in low bandwidth mode .vs. 20mA in high !!! Axing the resistors isn't worth the little space you save

 

[Earwax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by twodeko after completing my first CMOY (can be found here) i decided that it was decent but i wanted to tackle another DIY project and thought i would try the PPAv2. i know the reference site has a recommended parts list but i thought i would ask here what all goes into the PPA and what parts i should start looking for. after looking at some pictures and seeing what looked like a raised buffer board (diamond buffers?), i noticed that it wasn't in other PPA's and was wondering what it was for one, and what type of buffer is considered better. this will more than likely be a project that i will spend a bit of time working on so i thought i would go ahead and ask for Hi-Fi part recommendations while i wait for the PCB to be released and to take my iron out. price estimates would be wonderful too. this will more than likely be the project that throws me into DIY'ing a bit more, the cmoy was fun... now for more of a challenge

Just my opinion, but...

If all you've built before is a cmoy, I wouldn't rush to purchase PPA V2 parts just yet. Either build PPA V1 and try to get Glassman's diamond buffers for it or wait until some more of the experienced builders have done V2 and Tangent has a complete build page and parts list up and ready. I just have a feeling that if you start buying components now you'll end up wanting to change some things as the first round of V2 builders report their experiences with tweaks and fine tunings.

 

[twodeko]

aaah thank you earwax... sometimes i just need a little helpful advice before jumping the gun with a project like this.

i was actually taking a look at the pimeta and was thinking of just toying with that, but i would almost like to skip the intermediary steps and try that sounds better and save myself the time and money.

after reading through the posts, it almost makes me want to go ahead and build a PIMETA and check that out before even considering a PPA... and that is what i might do. thanks for the replies though, at least i know im surrounded by knowledgable experienced builders

i'm digging the chat about the v2 though