power performance
Jan 5, 2024 at 10:03 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 7

monf3307

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Given equal FR charts for two amps, given same speakers/headphones, if I am running one at 50% power and one at 100% for the same SPL, what is the difference?

It seems like we all have a preference for "headroom" on power but I am trying to figure out why. Is it the concept/idea, or are there sonic differences? We talk about "control" over the driver, but my (non-sound / non-electrical engineering, but engineering none-the-less) brain wants more data!
 
Jan 5, 2024 at 2:58 PM Post #2 of 7
I'm not an expert on this, but I think it has something to do with signal to noise ratio. Electronic circuit noise limits the actual dynamic range we can get out of gear, so running equipment at lower gain raises the noise floor and you lose that info.

It's probably fine either way unless the amp reduces the dynamic range below 65dB, that would make the noise too close to audibility.

Take with grain of salt, not an expert.
 
Jan 6, 2024 at 4:07 AM Post #3 of 7
Given equal FR charts for two amps, given same speakers/headphones, if I am running one at 50% power and one at 100% for the same SPL, what is the difference?
If you’re talking about the published FR charts (specs), then along with most of the other specs, they have been measured at the amp’s optimal/nominal output level or at a prescribed (standardised) level which is also almost certainly at or very near the amp‘s optimal output level, because obviously the manufacturer wants the specs to look good in comparison with other amps. Typically that nominal/optimal level would be around a 50% output setting, EG. A 40% - 70% setting, although it can be a wider range in some amps. In extremely few cases (if any) would a 100% output level still be optimal, so THD, IMD and noise are all likely to be significantly (and audibly) higher at 100% output, as well as some other factors (such as crosstalk) and the FR and other measurements at 100% are very unlikely to match the published charts/specs.
It seems like we all have a preference for "headroom" on power but I am trying to figure out why.
For the reasons above, although there’s no real way of knowing what that “headroom” is. For example an amp manufacturer may have it’s max output setting be lower than it’s actual max setting, thereby providing it’s own “headroom” even at a max setting and in some cases amps have built-in protection, although that’s also a function of the input level.
so running equipment at lower gain raises the noise floor and you lose that info.
It’s relative. In all or virtually all cases, a 50% setting would add less noise than a 100% setting, however a very low output setting can raise the noise floor, so a 50% setting may result in less relative noise than say a 10% setting. However, this latter scenario is very dependent on the design of the amp, even a setting lower than 10% might result in less noise than a 50% setting in some/many cases. Theoretically of course, the lowest noise would be achieved with no gain.

G
 
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Jan 6, 2024 at 4:58 AM Post #4 of 7
Given equal FR charts for two amps, given same speakers/headphones, if I am running one at 50% power and one at 100% for the same SPL, what is the difference?

It seems like we all have a preference for "headroom" on power but I am trying to figure out why. Is it the concept/idea, or are there sonic differences? We talk about "control" over the driver, but my (non-sound / non-electrical engineering, but engineering none-the-less) brain wants more data!
Your thought experiment is overly constrained, and I'm guessing you didn't mean it that way. Because for nominal use of both amps with the same SPL output into the same headphone, both amps need to effectively output the same power. That sort of forces the first amp to have a max power that's twice that power value for the same SPL, which is merely the ability to reach +3dB above the previously picked SPL. If those were the conditions, I'd suggest getting rid of both amps and get one with more headroom(unless your selected SPL value was the absolute maximum you're ever going to want to use).
 
Jan 6, 2024 at 5:08 AM Post #5 of 7
Your thought experiment is overly constrained, and I'm guessing you didn't mean it that way. Because for nominal use of both amps with the same SPL output into the same headphone, both amps need to effectively output the same power.
I assumed (possibly incorrectly) he meant a 50% or 100% output gain control setting, rather than an actual power/Watt output?

G
 
Jan 6, 2024 at 7:28 AM Post #7 of 7
If you’re talking about the published FR charts (specs), then along with most of the other specs, they have been measured at the amp’s optimal/nominal output level or at a prescribed (standardised) level which is also almost certainly at or very near the amp‘s optimal output level, because obviously the manufacturer wants the specs to look good in comparison with other amps. Typically that nominal/optimal level would be around a 50% output setting, EG. A 40% - 70% setting, although it can be a wider range in some amps. In extremely few cases (if any) would a 100% output level still be optimal, so THD, IMD and noise are all likely to be significantly (and audibly) higher at 100% output, as well as some other factors (such as crosstalk) and the FR and other measurements at 100% are very unlikely to match the published charts/specs.

For the reasons above, although there’s no real way of knowing what that “headroom” is. For example an amp manufacturer may have it’s max output setting be lower than it’s actual max setting, thereby providing it’s own “headroom” even at a max setting and in some cases amps have built-in protection, although that’s also a function of the input level.

It’s relative. In all or virtually all cases, a 50% setting would add less noise than a 100% setting, however a very low output setting can raise the noise floor, so a 50% setting may result in less relative noise than say a 10% setting. However, this latter scenario is very dependent on the design of the amp, even a setting lower than 10% might result in less noise than a 50% setting in some/many cases. Theoretically of course, the lowest noise would be achieved with no gain.

G
This is awesome and I totally appreciate the time and effort you took to explain. Makes sense too!
 

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