Pots versus Steps

[rickcr42]

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You can play with resistors value to find something absolutely manageable.

EXACTLY !

"play " with the resitors is by nature comprimise.fixing a thing not broken.

 

[oneeyedhobbit]

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Originally Posted by rickcr42 EXACTLY ! "play " with the resitors is by nature comprimise.fixing a thing not broken.

I'm no engineer, but I fail to see how tweaking the resistors represents a compromise. Wouldn't this be setting up the perfect steps for the individual's taste? I mean, for someone with a hearing imbalance such as yourself, then sure, a pot is a much better deal. Otherwise the tweaked resistor set-up seems ideal (save perhaps the digital stepped attenuators).

 

[Mastergill]

There's a semantic problem or what? Sorry i don't know what you mean.
Forgive my English that may be not clear enough.

What's wrong with 'playing' or better 'choosing' resistors that give a smooth transition in the most used volume range????

 

[Zanth]

I like SA's personally. I have had a great experience with the DACT CT2 in my Melos. I have no volume issues as others have mentioned. Maybe I'm just more easy going when it comes to the volume I want/need? I don't usually go past 9 o'clock.

I have never come across a really good pot so I can't comment. The only amps I have on hand with pots are the Grado offerings, the Fixup offerings and an Ear. Everything else is stepped. Even the Stealth.

 

[rickcr42]

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I'm no engineer, but I fail to see how tweaking the resistors represents a compromise. Wouldn't this be setting up the perfect steps for the individual's taste?

common sense requiring no degree to understand really.

so fine tuning and tweaking a stepper just to get it to work in system without problems is better than a continuous rotation which by design fills in ALL the in-btweens ?

so what happens if you change something in your system ?

what if that "something" is a device with either higher or lower efficiency ? what then ?

Time to get out the soldering iron is what.

i also am highly amused to read where someone goes to great lengths to eliminate a simple switch in the signal path on the theory that it degrades the sound then adds a switch with 22 postions and justifies it

I really don't care what others decide is their best fix system wide because audio is a very personal thing.

The original question was "pots vs. steps and since there is a lot of "me too" around here where someone makes a statement of "this is the best and only solution" where then everyone falls into lockstep blindly following until someone makes another discovery of "best solution" then the cycle repeats I ,as usual,decided to at least offer a semi-coherent counter.

Keep your steppers guys,I'll still take mine smooooth and continuous using the best pot I can afford at the time

 

[PinkFloyd]

I like a smooth progression and the "click click click" predetermined point of resistance the stepped attenuator provides, quite frankly, gets on my nerves. A good (matched) potentiometer beats these humongous "and" overpriced stepped attenuators anyday IMO... I also prefer carbon pots to these conductive plastic modern equivalents... I won't go into detail as most "audiophiles" like wasting their money and if you present them with facts they still won't believe you and will continue to fork out mega bucks when a few cents would buy them a better product......

 

[rickcr42]

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when a few cents would buy them a better product......

actually around $10 per mono pot but hey man,who's counting

 

[PinkFloyd]

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Originally Posted by rickcr42 actually around $10 per mono pot but hey man,who's counting

It's their money they're wasting Rick...... let them carry on being prey for the sharks who feed them a line of BS and hook them in. I give up, if they want to waste their money then so be it.

Dual mono ****s over stepped attenuators anyday (at a fraction of the cost)

Hey man, $10 is pennies / cents in the UK these days........ you guys need to get the dollar back into the top 3 in the currency charts..... slipping down

 

[Mastergill]

You guys are funny. Hey next time you see a Porsche 911 at the price of a Fiat 500 tell me pleeeease!

 

[rickcr42]

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You guys are funny. Hey next time you see a Porsche 911 at the price of a Fiat 500 tell me pleeeease!

sure wise guy,the same day you overpay for something and admit it

 

[oneeyedhobbit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickcr42 common sense requiring no degree to understand really. so fine tuning and tweaking a stepper just to get it to work in system without problems is better than a continuous rotation which by design fills in ALL the in-btweens ? so what happens if you change something in your system ? what if that "something" is a device with either higher or lower efficiency ? what then ? Time to get out the soldering iron is what. i also am highly amused to read where someone goes to great lengths to eliminate a simple switch in the signal path on the theory that it degrades the sound then adds a switch with 22 postions and justifies it I really don't care what others decide is their best fix system wide because audio is a very personal thing. The original question was "pots vs. steps and since there is a lot of "me too" around here where someone makes a statement of "this is the best and only solution" where then everyone falls into lockstep blindly following until someone makes another discovery of "best solution" then the cycle repeats I ,as usual,decided to at least offer a semi-coherent counter. Keep your steppers guys,I'll still take mine smooooth and continuous using the best pot I can afford at the time

I'm trying to be civil here, I'd appreciate the same in return to my queries.

That being said, you make a point about having to re-adjust resistors if anything in your set-up changes. But what I'm saying is this: assuming that stepped attenuators sound more "neutral" or somehow "better" than a pot (and this is an assumption, I've only ever heard pots--I'm arguing whether or not a SA or a pot represents a compromise, althought sheer sonic merits is another discussion worth having), wouldn't a pot be more of a compromise for convenience in volume adjustability over a properly system-matched/tweaked SA? Do you understand what I'm saying? Sure, the SA takes more time/work, but theoretically (again, providing we accept the above and unproven assumption) wouldn't it be better?

 

[Mastergill]

Aaaah, sometime i wonder if that place is an audiophile forum...

But you're right i overpaid all my stuff, tomorrow i sell the s**t and buy a boombox. After all it plays the same music right?

OK now i have to leave, you make me post too much and i'm more addicted to my music than to the internet.

See ya.

 

[rickcr42]

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but theoretically (again, providing we accept the above and unproven assumption) wouldn't it be better?

All you can do is listen for yourself to answer that.

The only valid test of any 'improvement" is to use the new in direct comparison to the old and that must be over time ,not just "wow.that IS better" because we humans have a flaw that when a thing sounds different we automatically call it better !

So the only true test of personal best is to use an amp you have listened to for a very long time with music you know intimately and compare what you hear.
Taking the advice of others is something you take with a grain of salt because everyone will have an opinion on what they like but it is not always what another likes even though most audiophiles are sheep waiting to be sheered by the one selling you the goods (literally and figuratively)

 

[rickcr42]

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But you're right i overpaid all my stuff, tomorrow i sell the s**t and buy a boombox. After all it plays the same music right?

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OK now i have to leave, you make me post too much and i'm more addicted to my music than to the internet.

and far more interested in being a wise guy than offering anything of value to the discussion

bye

 

[saint.panda]

I'd be very interested in a technical explanation about the superior sound performance of SAs. I'm currently having an amp built with a DACT as standard configuration but this thread has stirred my interest in high quality pots.

Another reason is that I've been told by a hifi guru, who among many other things once designed SAs for Elma, that a high quality pot is not any worse, if not better than a SA. He mentioned a specific Panasonic model but I forgot the name of it. The SA/pot issue was raised because we were talking about adding an internal headphone amp to my cd player, which he built, and whether to use a SA or pot. Just remembered this after reading this thread.

Most of the information I found was either commercially related (DACT homepage) or a review of the DACT (enjoythemusic). Most of the information mention a lower noise floor due to the absence of sliding parts, higher output bandwidth (no idea why) and longer operating life (again, why). Thank you for any insight on the technical aspects.