[TheGiantHogweed]

First off, I will say I am perfectly happy with the way these K702s sound. But IMO, they are built incredibly badly. I had to send one pair back to Amazon as it creaked particularly badly inside the left ear cup every time I moved slightly. Just seemed like a loud pop. The frame is made of such cheap plastic. Then on my new replacement pair the right side soon started creaking a bit. This wasn't as bad as before though so I just put up with it. But about 10 months after I got them later (this just happened a few days ago) The right side stopped playing sound. I opened the grill up and the red + wire had come off the blob of solder. These things really have been badly made. That is a wire that never gets tugged or moved about so the only reason can be a manufacturing defect. I didn't think a brand like AKG could be like this.


I am wanting something very similar. If the K712 pro is significantly better built, I would go for that.


A few things that I'm after if I go for something else:

I'm really into my treble. I really enjoy a bright sound. I also have the Audio Technica ATH-AD700s and AKG K550s and I think it is the treble that stands out most on them. Something with a bright and spacious soundstage is what I'm after.

I hope this will be easy to achieve. Something with better build quality than the K702s!

This may limit my options, but the fact that the K702s have a detachable cable has been incredibly useful for me. I like the Mini XLR connectors as they have a lock but 3.5mm or 2.5mm should be fine too. I wouldn't want a pair with a fixed cable now.







I've looked into a few. I was speaking with another headfi member who has my ATH-AD700s and some Philips SHP9500s. They look to have a 3.5mm connector and from what I've been told, the treble is pretty bright on them and the bass is more accurate than my AD700s. Some say the build quality isn't great, But for the price, I can't really see much worse than the K702. At leased I think the manual adjustment of the Phillips headphones will make them last longer.

As I mentioned earlier, I would be interested to know more about the K712 pro. But as they are about £60 more than the K702, there is no point me getting them unless they are made of much better quality material.

I've also looked at several Sennheiser headphones. The 599 certainly looks nice and it has a detachable 2.5mm cable. But I'm not sure how the sound will compare to the K702. I'm not after more bass than the K702 and I want to keep their bright sound.




As I've managed to return my K702 for a full refund, I am willing to go for something more expensive this time. Probably up to £200. But I'm after a better build more than sound if I'm honest.

My source is the FiiO A3 from the line out of another DAC. It can go extremely loud with the 64ohm K702s so I think up to 128ohm headphones should still be ok for me.



If anybody can help me decide what to go for next, I would much appreciate it.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

First off, I will say I am perfectly happy with the way these K702s sound. But IMO, they are built incredibly badly. I had to send one pair back to Amazon as it creaked particularly badly inside the left ear cup every time I moved slightly. Just seemed like a loud pop. The frame is made of such cheap plastic. Then on my new replacement pair the right side soon started creaking a bit. This wasn't as bad as before though so I just put up with it. But about 10 months after I got them later (this just happened a few days ago) The right side stopped playing sound. I opened the grill up and the red + wire had come off the blob of solder. These things really have been badly made. That is a wire that never gets tugged or moved about so the only reason can be a manufacturing defect. I didn't think a brand like AKG could be like this.

All the K7xx series headphones I tried never had those problems, but then again, those were from the factory in Austria, not the new one in China. Quality control might not be as strict.

That or they were returned before. You sure they were brand new? Some on Amazon are noted to be open box items.

I am wanting something very similar. If the K712 pro is significantly better built, I would go for that.

They're basically the same construction but if it's just a batch to batch variance then maybe you could have better luck with the K712.

A few things that I'm after if I go for something else:

I'm really into my treble. I really enjoy a bright sound. I also have the Audio Technica ATH-AD700s and AKG K550s and I think it is the treble that stands out most on them. Something with a bright and spacious soundstage is what I'm after.

I hope this will be easy to achieve. Something with better build quality than the K702s!

This may limit my options, but the fact that the K702s have a detachable cable has been incredibly useful for me. I like the Mini XLR connectors as they have a lock but 3.5mm or 2.5mm should be fine too. I wouldn't want a pair with a fixed cable now.
---
As I've managed to return my K702 for a full refund, I am willing to go for something more expensive this time. Probably up to £200. But I'm after a better build more than sound if I'm honest.

Off the bat the headphones that come to mind are:

1. Sennheiser HD800
2. Beyerdynamic T5P
3. Audeze LCD-3
4. HiFiMan HE500
5. Stax

They're all past that price point though.

I've looked into a few. I was speaking with another headfi member who has my ATH-AD700s and some Philips SHP9500s. They look to have a 3.5mm connector and from what I've been told, the treble is pretty bright on them and the bass is more accurate than my AD700s. Some say the build quality isn't great, But for the price, I can't really see much worse than the K702. At leased I think the manual adjustment of the Phillips headphones will make them last longer

Philips are easier to drive and can be a bit brigher, but compared to the K702, it's a downgrade in a few areas:

1. Imaging isn't as good
2. Bass trails off earlier. You might not be looking for more bass, but you'll get less, although that means the treble will be better accentuated. Higher sensitivity will make what low end it has seem to have more impact since you can easily get louder with these with the same amp though so even with less low bass this might offset it a bit.
3. You can't order spare parts from Philips unlike AKG, not even earpads. Look into the DIY solutions. If they look like too much trouble for you, then maybe look into something else.

My source is the FiiO A3 from the line out of another DAC. It can go extremely loud with the 64ohm K702s so I think up to 128ohm headphones should still be ok for me.

The A3 is your amp and whatever is feeding the DAC, or that and the DAC, are your source units.

 

[TheGiantHogweed]

The A3 is your amp and whatever is feeding the DAC, or that and the DAC, are your source units.

Yes, I did have a blank moment there. My source is my PC then. Using USB to go to an SMSL DAC. It does have a amplifier in it but it is rather weak compared to the A3 so I just use the line out and it sounds good.


Relating to he Phillips, that was a concern I had. If the quality of the ear pads is good enough to last quite some years, I don't see that much of a problem with them not being possible to replace with original ear pads. I don't think I would mind a bit less bass than the K702s. But I hope it will have more than my Audio Technica ATH-AD700s.
About my K702s both the ones I got new and the replacement were in a sealed box. No damage or anything. But when I took off the grid, the way the wires had been put on looked a bit poor.



It would worry me a bit if the K712 are the same sort of construction. As these really don't feel like £180 headphones which is around what they cost. My ATH-AD700s were £87 and they have metal grill and the plastic is much thicker and everything even including the cable just feels far better built. But then they were built in Japan. Do these things really make such a difference? I've had these for about 7 years and they've been dropped several times by now. They are so tough. The K702s have been treated so much more carefully and 2 new pairs have had problems in under a year of having them.


Do you happen to know anything about the Sennheiser HD599 or 579 a similar model? As they are under £200.


Thanks for your help.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Relating to he Phillips, that was a concern I had. If the quality of the ear pads is good enough to last quite some years, I don't see that much of a problem with them not being possible to replace with original ear pads.

There are third party solutions but since they're not made specifically for that (and I think some of it was glued rather than AKG and Sennheiser snap-ons) you have to DIY the mounting in some way.

About my K702s both the ones I got new and the replacement were in a sealed box. No damage or anything. But when I took off the grid, the way the wires had been put on looked a bit poor.

It would worry me a bit if the K712 are the same sort of construction. As these really don't feel like £180 headphones which is around what they cost. My ATH-AD700s were £87 and they have metal grill and the plastic is much thicker and everything even including the cable just feels far better built. But then they were built in Japan. Do these things really make such a difference? I've had these for about 7 years and they've been dropped several times by now. They are so tough. The K702s have been treated so much more carefully and 2 new pairs have had problems in under a year of having them.

Could be batch to batch variance so you could get a good batch of the K712...but then you could get a bad one. They all come from the same factory in China.

Do you happen to know anything about the Sennheiser HD599 or 579 a similar model? As they are under £200.

Haven't tried them yet.

 

[Me x3]

I've owned two AKG K702 from different batches, both were the latest version with bumpless headband.
None of them had any problem. From time to time someone reports here the solder problem at the band.
It seems to be an infrequent but real QC problem, they should address.

I've owned the AKG K712 which is made in Europe. No problems on it either.
It felt similar, but tighter here and there. Slightly different plastic feeling, you know. Similar but different.

Since I didn't have any problems with the 3 AKG K7-series I've owned I can't complain.
AKG K712 is a very nice headphone in my book, but it's certainly warmer/fuller sounding than K702.

If you like treble then Beyerdynamic is the way to go. Beyerdynamic DT880 (600 ohm) would be my pick.
You'll need to raise the potentiomenter just a bit more than with the AKG K702.
If you want the same loudness as with the K702 then go DT880 (250 ohm).

These Beyers have a very extended, sparkly and fast treble response that K7-series can't match.
Also made in Germany and including a carrying case.

Yes, fixed cable... I wouldn't skip them for that.
Just a small trade off in exchange for the sound siganture and build quality you're looking for.

Regards,
Me x3

 

[TheGiantHogweed]

I've owned two AKG K702 from different batches, both were the latest version with bumpless headband.
None of them had any problem. From time to time someone reports here the solder problem at the band.
It seems to be an infrequent but real QC problem, they should address.

I've owned the AKG K712 which is made in Europe. No problems on it either.
It felt similar, but tighter here and there. Slightly different plastic feeling, you know. Similar but different.

Since I didn't have any problems with the 3 AKG K7-series I've owned I can't complain.
AKG K712 is a very nice headphone in my book, but it's certainly warmer/fuller sounding than K702.

If you like treble then Beyerdynamic is the way to go. Beyerdynamic DT880 (600 ohm) would be my pick.
You'll need to raise the potentiomenter just a bit more than with the AKG K702.
If you want the same loudness as with the K702 then go DT880 (250 ohm).

These Beyers have a very extended, sparkly and fast treble response that K7-series can't match.
Also made in Germany and including a carrying case.

Yes, fixed cable... I wouldn't skip them for that.
Just a small trade off in exchange for the sound siganture and build quality you're looking for.

Regards,
Me x3

I may be able to find a way round the detachable cable. I currently have my ATH-AD700s as my desk perminatly. As in the cable is wraped round the back of my desk well out the way. And what I did with my K702s was use them both at my desk and other places too. But I kept a cable fixed to my desk. As it was detachable, I just used adifferent one when I wanted to use them elsewhere. I suppose what I could do if I wanted to keep things tidy is use an extension cable on my desk and unplug these DT880s from that if I wanted to use them for something else. But it would be a pain having to find somewhere for the cable to go as I'm a bit OCD about keeping things tidy on my desk. If the coil is fairly short, then that should be OK to just use a decent quality 3.5mm extension.

How long is the coiled cable when it isn't stretched out roughly?

I've also seen that they are just semi open. I like to be aware of what is happening around me so I'm hoping they won't insulate much sound. Not was a lot of people would be after, but that is sort of what I expect with open backed headphones.

 

[Me x3]

I may be able to find a way round the detachable cable. I currently have my ATH-AD700s as my desk perminatly. As in the cable is wraped round the back of my desk well out the way. And what I did with my K702s was use them both at my desk and other places too. But I kept a cable fixed to my desk. As it was detachable, I just used adifferent one when I wanted to use them elsewhere. I suppose what I could do if I wanted to keep things tidy is use an extension cable on my desk and unplug these DT880s from that if I wanted to use them for something else. But it would be a pain having to find somewhere for the cable to go as I'm a bit OCD about keeping things tidy on my desk. If the coil is fairly short, then that should be OK to just use a decent quality 3.5mm extension.

How long is the coiled cable when it isn't stretched out roughly?

I've also seen that they are just semi open. I like to be aware of what is happening around me so I'm hoping they won't insulate much sound. Not was a lot of people would be after, but that is sort of what I expect with open backed headphones.

From memory, the coiled cable is about 1m when it's not streched out.
You should look for the Beyerdynamic DT880 Pro in order to get the one with coiled cable. It's 250 Ohm and comes with the carrying case.
Take them as open headphones, they do not provide isolation. Just like K702 in this regard.

 

[TheGiantHogweed]

Interestingly, the price difference on amazon is huge. The DT880 600ohm is £159. The 32ohm is about the same at £158. But on the same page, the 250ohm are £213. I have found them from another seller at £185. But do you know if it is normal for the 250ohm version to be much higher than the 32 and 600?

If there isn't much of a difference in sound quality, I could go for the 32ohm. Or if my A3 would be strong enough and I could find a way round the long strait cable, I could go for the 600ohm. But my A3 specs suggest between 16 and 150ohm. And the output power at 32ohm says it is 270mW. Depending on the sensitivity, will this be enough to power the 250 or 600ohm?

Thanks.

 

[Me x3]

Interestingly, the price difference on amazon is huge. The DT880 600ohm is £159. The 32ohm is about the same at £158. But on the same page, the 250ohm are £213. I have found them from another seller at £185. But do you know if it is normal for the 250ohm version to be much higher than the 32 and 600?

If there isn't much of a difference in sound quality, I could go for the 32ohm. Or if my A3 would be strong enough and I could find a way round the long strait cable, I could go for the 600ohm. But my A3 specs suggest between 16 and 150ohm. And the output power at 32ohm says it is 270mW. Depending on the sensitivity, will this be enough to power the 250 or 600ohm?

Thanks.

This is the one with coiled cable
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0...=dt880+pro&dpPl=1&dpID=41w8S93jaCL&ref=plSrch

General consensus is 250 and 600 ohm sound better than 32 ohm

250 ohm needs the same volume as K702
600 ohm needs just a tad more

These two Beyers are easier to drive (drain less power from the amp) than K702. Just keep in mind the 600 ohm version will sound at slightly lower level relative to K702 and 250 ohm version for a given volume pot position.

Prices can vary, I would pick the 600 ohm, since I don't listen to music very loud. If you need the coiled cable then the Pro version is the only way to go, and Pro is always 250 ohm.

Regards,
Me x3

 

[TheGiantHogweed]

From memory, the coiled cable is about 1m when it's not streched out.
You should look for the Beyerdynamic DT880 Pro in order to get the one with coiled cable. It's 250 Ohm and comes with the carrying case.
Take them as open headphones, they do not provide isolation. Just like K702 in this regard.

This is the one with coiled cable
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0...=dt880+pro&dpPl=1&dpID=41w8S93jaCL&ref=plSrch

General consensus is 250 and 600 ohm sound better than 32 ohm

250 ohm needs the same volume as K702
600 ohm needs just a tad more

These two Beyers are easier to drive (drain less power from the amp) than K702. Just keep in mind the 600 ohm version will sound at slightly lower level relative to K702 and 250 ohm version for a given volume pot position.

Prices can vary, I would pick the 600 ohm, since I don't listen to music very loud. If you need the coiled cable then the Pro version is the only way to go, and Pro is always 250 ohm.

Regards,
Me x3

I'll think about this. The price difference is that the 250ohm pros are £25 more than the 600ohm by the look of it. I could get much more volume with my K702s and A3 than I ever would need so I assume they will go loud enough with the 600 ohm ones. I basically will have to decide if it is worth saving £25 and getting the 600 ohm ones without a coiled cable and being slightly harder to drive. I'll decide between this 2 I think though.

Many thanks for your help.

 

[TheGiantHogweed]

Well, I've got my DT 880 pros. First impressions is that they feel like they are built to last. Even though these were a lot more expensive than my K702s, it is worth the difference for the build quality. I still think the K702s feel like something half the price they were. These are pretty heavy, but have such lovely padding that that hardly matters. The first thing I noticed and I worried would drive me insane were the 2 wires connecting to each driver. When I'm wearing them, they touch against my head above the ear pad. And they move about each time I move my head which end up feeling like it is tickling me. But then I realised you can take the headband off and see the whole wire. So I just tucked it up there and now it is much better as when on my head, the wire is strait, so avoids contact. I love the fact that they say everything is replaceable. I think the wire could do with being out the way a bit more though.

The sound even before I've burned them in seems really good. The bass on these really is strong for an open backed headphone. I hope I won't start to dislike my AD700s! The treble is very good on these, but sounds more relaxed than my AD700s. And certainly sounds good enough for what I wanted. I wanted much better build quality than the K702s and nothing lost in terms of the sound quality.

Thanks for the suggestion Me x3!

Any suggestions on burn in time? I don't believe those who say things need 1000+ hours but if you think a few days of playing music to themselves can make a noticeable improvement, let me know and I may as well do that.

 

[Me x3]

Well, I've got my DT 880 pros. First impressions is that they feel like they are built to last. Even though these were a lot more expensive than my K702s, it is worth the difference for the build quality. I still think the K702s feel like something half the price they were. These are pretty heavy, but have such lovely padding that that hardly matters. The first thing I noticed and I worried would drive me insane were the 2 wires connecting to each driver. When I'm wearing them, they touch against my head above the ear pad. And they move about each time I move my head which end up feeling like it is tickling me. But then I realised you can take the headband off and see the whole wire. So I just tucked it up there and now it is much better as when on my head, the wire is strait, so avoids contact. I love the fact that they say everything is replaceable. I think the wire could do with being out the way a bit more though.

The sound even before I've burned them in seems really good. The bass on these really is strong for an open backed headphone. I hope I won't start to dislike my AD700s! The treble is very good on these, but sounds more relaxed than my AD700s. And certainly sounds good enough for what I wanted. I wanted much better build quality than the K702s and nothing lost in terms of the sound quality.

Thanks for the suggestion Me x3!

Any suggestions on burn in time? I don't believe those who say things need 1000+ hours but if you think a few days of playing music to themselves can make a noticeable improvement, let me know and I may as well do that.

Glad to read that they are close to your expectation! Hope you enjoy them very much as I did in the past.
DT880s are very solid all around headphones both in terms of sound and built quality. It's often hard to get something that ticks each and every box (even at a much higher price tag) but all in all, even for a critical person as myself, DT880 ticks a lot of boxes, more so when price comes into play.

I've measured many (if not all) of my headphones right out of the box, days after that and months after that. They've always measured the same withing the measurement precision. I'm a critical listener, relatively trained, but even then I'm not confident enough to do A/B using the same headphone and many hours in between listening tests. Our memory is not that good, and there are many variables involved. Sometimes rotating the earpads, or placing the headphone in a slightly different position can make a small difference, more than something caused by time of use. So no, I don't think burn in plays any significative role, except for pad wear which is not a concern on your new headphone. What I do know is that our hearing can be tricky and it can take time to our ears/brain to get used to the new sound signature and fully enjoy its nature.

Just use the headphone and enjoy the music! Look for those recordings that are great matches for your new headphone.
At least that's what I would do!

Welcome to the Beyer camp
; )

 

[JediMa70]

I had the AKG K702 and now i bought the AKG K712 pro, they are far way better. I love them, about built they are quite similar, but pads are better, sound is warmer, same good detail more controlled soundstage, they joined my HD600, M1060 and Meze 99 Classic