[plainsong]

Well if you see a veteran member trying to rip you off, it's easy to vote with your wallet. If enough people did that, they could inflate the prices all they want and their gear will remain unsold.

And if I got a harrassment PM from someone presuming to tell me how to handle my own sale, and it was not constructive and was not from a mod, that person would find their butts reported. Constructive criticism is one thing but some sort of artificial market inflating? No, it's a forum, not a drug dealer trying to take possession of his street corner.

Maybe there are some like that, but they're not a majority. I mean sure you'll have Internet Males and control freaks with no lives, but does anyone actually do what they say?

To have the mods mediate each transaction though, firstly wouldn't we need a buuuuunch more mods? And secondly, this is a private transaction between two parties who enter the transaction willingly, using head-fi only as a means of communication. Head-fi itself isn't responsible. The only responsiblity head-fi has as I see it is trying their best to keep scammers off the board, banning ones that are known and from whom no resolution was ever forthcoming. Past that, that's where the responsiblity ends.

As for Azure, are you trying to have a go at me for no particular reason or do I not get the joke? It's like following someone around whom you don't like and poking them in the back at odd times saying "I don't like you." "I don't like you." "I don't like you." If that's the case, just add me to ignore or something, otherwise it looks silly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LawnGnome /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think it is pretty easy to see what is happening here. The more veteran members are controlling the prices to keep them inflated for their own benefits. Like that one member said, someone messaged him and requested he removed his sale price. As it stands now, the FS section here is setup for the buyers to take advantage of new members. It's also interesting to see certain people justifying new members being ripped off by a seller who knows he is ripping the person off.

 

[Azure]

Quote:

Originally Posted by plainsong /img/forum/go_quote.gif As for Azure, are you trying to have a go at me for no particular reason or do I not get the joke? It's like following someone around whom you don't like and poking them in the back at odd times saying "I don't like you." "I don't like you." "I don't like you." If that's the case, just add to ignore or something, otherwise it looks silly.

Nah, I just saw a resemblance between LawnGnome's tendency to jump to over-the-top conclusions over simple matters (Older members are out to scam newer members and everybody is okay with scamming just because we replace FS prices with "SOLD") with your same tendency (we're xenophobes for not selling to non-CONUS buyers). Your post was also RIGHT there above his, so it just reminded me more of the resemblance.

 

[vcoheda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure /img/forum/go_quote.gif Do pray tell why privacy is not a legitimate reason, and do keep in mind the posts made in this thread when you reply.

whose privacy?

1. a post is made to sell something and the price is public. so it's not the price or the fact that seller A is selling something, since his/her name is already there for all to see.

2. the item is sold to someone. who we don't know. people sometimes post "ygpm" but there is little correlation between that post and who the item is actually sold to. the vast majority of discussion over an item, even the initial contact is done via pm. and if a person is so concerned about his or her privacy then don't announce "ygpm" in the thread, and i am sure that these concerned persons do all their talks via pm. so it's not the buyer.

hence, imo privacy is not a legitimate reason.

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LawnGnome /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think it is pretty easy to see what is happening here. The more veteran members are controlling the prices to keep them inflated for their own benefits. Like that one member said, someone messaged him and requested he removed his sale price. As it stands now, the FS section here is setup for the buyers to take advantage of new members. It's also interesting to see certain people justifying new members being ripped off by a seller who knows he is ripping the person off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LawnGnome /img/forum/go_quote.gif How can you do your research for market prices if the market prices are removed? I think the mentality here at head-fi is that it is ok to rip off new members. Really explains how people here have positive figures for head-fi spending. And of course the people who prey on the new comers don't want rules like this.

Your flagrant misrepresentation and inflamatory posts about head-fi members only serve to reveal more about you than anything about head-fi. Your words reflect either seriously distorted thinking, in which case I'm sure this carries into the rest of your life and I feel sorry for you, or the idiotic ramblings of someone too immature to know he's acting like an idiot. May I remind you that you are the one who posted (in the wrong forum, mind you) a request to do a straight up trade from a portable amp to a home amp with "better sound quality"? Who is looking for something for nothing? No "veteran" member would dare be so presumptuous without offering additional cash/other for such improvements.

This forum and its members are kinder and more helpful to new folks than any I've encountered. People greet you, answer questions with patience that have been answered hundreds of times before, and point you in the right direction for both gear and where to get the best bargain. They steer you away from scams on other sites and reveal possible problems with vendors and individual sellers on this site. If you have a question not answered in a thread (including questions about the value of an item), you can always pm members, and they, in my experience, quickly respond. If you love this hobby, stick around, but stick around long enough to learn about the community dynamics and genuine goodwill of fellow enthusiasts before stupidly attacking what you clearly do not know or understand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagleboy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hardly an argument. More than half the FS posts I see have NO post listed, and shortly after they're listed they're stated as sold. If someone is legitimately interested, they will PM you. I have done it, others have done it. And, there is no rule requiring posting of a price - what I am suggesting is a rule stating that if you do choose to list your price in the first place (which IS your choice, no rule about that), you must keep it up there because you initially made it available to public knowledge.

I once sold a Darkvoice amp for $60 less than I planned in a deal which included some cash in two installments plus a Circuit City gift card because the kid was poor and it was his birthday. I then threw in some NOS tubes and a power cord. Would I be required to post this? I'm also a bit of a softie. Would I be required to post that as well? ...oh, wait...it would be obvious.

If you and others want to post your prices and let them stand after a sale, good for you. If you don't, good for you. Sometimes I post/save prices, sometimes neither, but if I don't, I have reasons that are private affairs. You don't have to like it. You don't have to buy or sell from me. Even huge online stores don't keep prices posted, stable or known. Why would you demand that of individuals who are selling to individuals in often unique circumstances? This isn't about making money, but sharing a hobby. Some rules commonly accepted as good business practice don't transfer well, and would do more harm than good. Even on audiogon, when I bought one of my CD players, the guy listed the price in my feedback as nearly $600 more than I paid for it, and $200 more than he asked for in his ad. I don't know why he did that, but I do know that having a requirement to post a price, initial or final guarantees nada.

I think Wayne explained well the reasoning behind keeping things as they are in the FS forums in post #26. I personally agree, but even if I didn't, I would appreciate the care with which the mods have thought things through and respect their decisions.

 

[Azure]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif whose privacy? 1. a post is made to sell something and the price is public. so it's not the price or the fact that seller A is selling something, since his/her name is already there for all to see. 2. the item is sold to someone. who we don't know. people sometimes post "ygpm" but there is little correlation between that post and who the item is actually sold to. the vast majority of discussion over an item, even the initial contact is done via pm. and if a person is so concerned about his or her privacy then don't announce "ygpm" in the thread, and i am sure that these concerned persons do all their talks via pm. so it's not the buyer. hence, imo privacy is not a legitimate reason.

The price is temporarily public:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure /img/forum/go_quote.gif I display the asking price while the sale is effective because that's the only way it'll work (I know I'll attract much less buyers if I ask people to PM me for the price). After the sale is over, I like to keep the transaction as private as possible by replacing the price with "SOLD." People that aren't heavily following these prices and saw the price while the item was still available will very likely forget how much the item went for in a matter of days/weeks, so it is not a concern.

Feedback threads make it relatively easy to find out who the buyer was. You can also find out the who the seller is by searching through posts (I found out who oicdn dealt with as he mentioned in his thread within 1 minute of searching). So, it is relatively easy to find out who the buyer is.

So, I wish to protect both the buyer and seller's privacy by removing the price. It is nobody's business how much I sold an item for or how much the buyer bought an item for, except for those directly involved in the transaction.

 

[Jeff Guidry]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif yes. i've heard that one. but i said legitimate.

Why do you feel that privacy is an illegitimate desire when making a sale?

If both the buyer and seller agree that they will keep the final selling price between themselves, why is that anyone else's business?

 

[spike33]

Why remove price after sale is done? Respect to the other sellers. I experienced this firsthand. I was selling an item for what I thought was a reasonable price (lower than market value) but there was a seller who sold it for a ridiculously low price and kept the price public. Guess what? All I got were lowball offers that were LESS than the price that seller sold for. I ended up just selling it on ebay for more than what I originally asked. Moral of story: Headfi buyers lose, headfi sellers lose, ebay wins. If you sell an item for what you know is a very low price, have respect for others and remove the price.

 

[Superpredator]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure /img/forum/go_quote.gif Upon second review, yes, the sarcasm was very loud; with all the ridiculous posts being made by people on the other side of the argument, it looks like my sarcasm detector failed to pick up on this. I'll be sure to get it checked for bugs

No worries, I was probably being too dry. It seems plainsong took it seriously as well.

 

[Superpredator]

Someone is letting the market determine something's value as we speak! Sin! Evil! I demand he make a blind guess as to its value based on the agreed upon average immediately!

 

[909]

if you don't like the FS Forum rules don't buy or sell anything in there yet then your complains about it should presumably cease.

 

[vcoheda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spike33 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why remove price after sale is done? Respect to the other sellers. I experienced this firsthand. I was selling an item for what I thought was a reasonable price (lower than market value) but there was a seller who sold it for a ridiculously low price and kept the price public. Guess what? All I got were lowball offers that were LESS than the price that seller sold for. I ended up just selling it on ebay for more than what I originally asked. Moral of story: Headfi buyers lose, headfi sellers lose, ebay wins. If you sell an item for what you know is a very low price, have respect for others and remove the price.

but if everyone left the price, then people would see that that one low price was out of the ordinary.

 

[jumpinjohn1234]

we should take this to the supreme court

I think the fs forum is fine as it is- its not perfect

If you dont like or trust it- dont use it - go to ebay
I've been to forums where the Mods had to take down the FS forum, be happy there is one here.

 

[LawnGnome]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...

Ad Hominem eh?

But yet you have failed to touch on the issue of new members being overcharged.

Here's a straight forward question.

What do people have to lose by keeping their initial asking price up?

Because so far not a single person has provided a reason why the asking prices should be taken down. All there has been is "privacy" and "its my right"

Well, if you are so private about your asking prices, why aren't you so concerned posting them in the first place. And then why are members who are uninvolved in sales asking members to remove their old asking prices?

As for it being a person right to do so, that is great and all. But that is not a reason for doing it, nor does it explain a person's thinking behind their decision.


By the way, if you want to go on another little character attack without actually addressing any of the arguments posed, and then saying how great you are because you once sold an amp for less than you asked, save it. It isn't worth the bandwidth.

 

[SysteX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LawnGnome /img/forum/go_quote.gif Because so far not a single person has provided a reason why the asking prices should be taken down. All there has been is "privacy" and "its my right"

Is this not a good enough reason?

It's like the pro-wiretap people saying that there's nothing wrong with it; after all if, you're innocent, you have nothing to hide. It has nothing to do with "hiding" anything, but rather the fundamental ideal of anonymity.

If you want to take down your selling price, do so. If you don't like that other people take down their selling price, then quote the posts--yes, in every single FS thread--or simply stop browsing the FS forum.

As a Head-Fi "noobie" and potential buyer, you have a large responsibility to educate yourself as to fair prices on used items. I'd bet you "my ridiculous government salary" (burn in hell, Decepticons...) that if you PMed a number of knowledgeable members here they'd be more than happy to help you figure out reasonable prices for items in FS threads.

 

[The Pieman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SysteX /img/forum/go_quote.gif Is this not a good enough reason? It's like the pro-wiretap people saying that there's nothing wrong with it; after all if, you're innocent, you have nothing to hide. It has nothing to do with "hiding" anything, but rather the fundamental ideal of anonymity. If you want to take down your selling price, do so. If you don't like that other people take down their selling price, then quote the posts--yes, in every single FS thread--or simply stop browsing the FS forum. As a Head-Fi "noobie" and potential buyer, you have a large responsibility to educate yourself as to fair prices on used items. I'd bet you "my ridiculous government salary" (burn in hell, Decepticons...) that if you PMed a number of knowledgeable members here they'd be more than happy to help you figure out reasonable prices for items in FS threads.

Totally agree with the sentiments expressed here. I am pretty new here, but I figured out one thing very quickly, research, research, research. I have only bought one thing from the FS forums, but I am looking for other stuff here. I have a reasonable concept of what acceptable pricing for my targets is. As well, how can it be rip off newbies time?? The same prices are quoted to one and all.