[343 Grenadier]

I will say I thought the DT880/600 had slightly better gaming capabilities than the HD600. The DT800 was more detailed as well as having slightly better positioning. However, the HD600 sounded more natural so I choose that.

 
And as far as we can tell, the AKGs are better still than the 880s.
 

With the Sound Blaster Z, the sound quality was so distorted to get slightly better 3D positioning. Much detail was lost because of this when using SBX. It sounded like a veil with everything having more bass (not impact). Without SBX active, the card basically sounded the same for 3D as the onboard did, though my onboard sound is fairly good. However, their still was a slight added bass even with no features active. I'll write my full impressions when I find the time and can get my amp fully upgraded. But for me, the sound card did not do it for me.

 
Yeah, well, if it helped positioning, then it did what it was designed to do. Regardless of the cost.
 

 Listen to this if you are deciding on getting a particular soundcard or just keeping onboard. It is pretty representative of what you will get, say 80%.

 
Already heard it. It's where I got most of my impressions about how these stack up. Not perfect but it'll do.

 

[cmander10]

 
Yeah, well, if it helped positioning, then it did what it was designed to do. Regardless of the cost.

Problem is that even though you get better 3D imaging, the detail is lost. That means I couldn't hear footsteps as well and if I got near water or anything with a constant noise, it decreased my ability to hear footsteps further with SBX active. The scout mode was a nightmare when I got near water. The best option was no extra functions active, which did not give a noticeable difference in 3D positioning vs onboard. Then again, it depends on your onboard. My motherboard has pretty good onboard sound. If you have a cheap mobo, then you may want a dedicated SC.
 
Quote:

 
Already heard it. It's where I got most of my impressions about how these stack up. Not perfect but it'll do.

I figured you did, but I wanted to let everyone who hasn't heard it know it is there and anyone curious about whether it was representative or not that it was. The 3D positioning may be not exact, but still pretty close. You can, however, get a good feel for the sound signature that the SC will produce with its corresponding surround software.

 

[343 Grenadier]

Problem is that even though you get better 3D imaging, the detail is lost. That means I couldn't hear footsteps as well and if I got near water or anything with a constant noise, it decreased my ability to hear footsteps further with SBX active. The scout mode was a nightmare when I got near water. The best option was no extra functions active, which did not give a noticeable difference in 3D positioning vs onboard. Then again, it depends on your onboard. My motherboard has pretty good onboard sound. If you have a cheap mobo, then you may want a dedicated SC.

 

I figured you did, but I wanted to let everyone who hasn't heard it know it is there and anyone curious about whether it was representative or not that it was. The 3D positioning may be not exact, but still pretty close. You can, however, get a good feel for the sound signature that the SC will produce with its corresponding surround software.

 

I've found I preferred CMSS-3D in that comparison the most, with SBX at 30% coming in a close second. Wasn't impressed by the 100% setting. Sounded like Dolby. That's for pure directional positioning, mind you. I can see how some details might be lost in the process of virtualizing the audio but it seems to work okay for me and the guy who made the video swears by CMSS-3D. He got SBX afterwards and said it was crap compared to the older software, an opinion I share with him. His onboard test struck me as being more "diffuse" and less precise in how it handled the specific direction. Still perfectly usable for gaming, mind. Just having a good source and decent headphones helps a lot. Even so, I'd rate it at around 60-70 degrees of accuracy, whereas with the aforementioned settings it was more like 30-45. Long as it gets the important cues out, I think the loss in audio detail is acceptable. But yeah, I think this is a prime example of how hearing is subjective. Glad you posted that link, it'll give people something to work with when viewing this thread.

 

[cmander10]

The guy uploaded a few more videos with one still to come comparing music and gaming sounds. I'll have to give those a watch as well. 
 
Still, the onboard is going to depend on your mobo. I don't know which one he has, but mine is a gaming mobo, so its soundcard is probably geared more towards that anyways. Most PC builders suggest cheap mobos as long as they are reliable since all they are supposed to do is hold the components together. There is no processing other than sound and a few other small tasks. I got a nice mobo for the looks above anything else. 

 

[343 Grenadier]

The guy uploaded a few more videos with one still to come comparing music and gaming sounds. I'll have to give those a watch as well. 

 
Did it already.
 

Still, the onboard is going to depend on your mobo. I don't know which one he has, but mine is a gaming mobo, so its soundcard is probably geared more towards that anyways. Most PC builders suggest cheap mobos as long as they are reliable since all they are supposed to do is hold the components together. There is no processing other than sound and a few other small tasks. I got a nice mobo for the looks above anything else. 

 
Maybe, maybe not. What model is it?

 

[cmander10]

 
 
Maybe, maybe not. What model is it?

ROG SupremeFX 8-Channel High Definition Audio CODEC, which is just a modded Realtek 1150 so I guess it isn't as good as I thought. It still sounds great, just not for 3D positioning compared to a dedicated SC.

 

[343 Grenadier]

ROG SupremeFX 8-Channel High Definition Audio CODEC, which is just a modded Realtek 1150 so I guess it isn't as good as I thought. It still sounds great, just not for 3D positioning compared to a dedicated SC.

 
I meant the motherboard.

 

[cmander10]

ASUS Maximus VI Hero

 

[343 Grenadier]

 ASUS Maximus VI Hero

 
Conveniently, ASUS does not list the specs of the audio on that board. I cannot tell you if it's even good by the standards of "high end" onboard audio. Since it's from ASUS, however, I can say it's probably using Dolby, or something based on it.

 

[cmander10]

   
Conveniently, ASUS does not list the specs of the audio on that board. I cannot tell you if it's even good by the standards of "high end" onboard audio. Since it's from ASUS, however, I can say it's probably using Dolby, or something based on it.

It's a modded Realtek 1150. Basically the 1150 with some extra software added in and a fancy name.
 
I also have to mention I have a DAC/amp already. As such, most of the purpose of a SC is lost. If I were to plug my headphones directly into the mobo vs a souncard with no DAC/amp, then the SC would be the better option simply for the built in DAC/amp.

 

[343 Grenadier]

I also have to mention I have a DAC/amp already. As such, most of the purpose of a SC is lost. If I were to plug my headphones directly into the mobo vs a souncard with no DAC/amp, then the SC would be the better option simply for the built in DAC/amp.

 
I'm just curious to know the specs. And yeah, we've established sound cards are mostly useless except for the convenience, maybe cost-effectiveness, and of course the gaming virtualization software/DSPs, which is what we're here for. 

 

[cmander10]

Yeah, if you want top quality music, get a record player or something. Cannot do much better with computers other than getting rid of noise from the electronics in the computer if you have it. Sound cards have better DAC/amp than onboard. The convenience is not getting a dedicated DAC/amp, even though the SC's is inferior. I'm paying $80 or so for the DSP, which isn't worth it for me.
 
Sound cards are only good for speaker systems because they will actually use the SC's processing, but generally you buy an external control center for a speaker system.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  Yeah, if you want top quality music, get a record player or something.

 
Or as I call it, 10bit audio with (or eventually will have) cereal elves.
 

 

[cmander10]

   
Or as I call it, 10bit audio with (or eventually will have) cereal elves.
 

 

 

[343 Grenadier]

This thread ain't quite dead yet. Anyone gets new data, we'll be happy to have it over in here. And I just did. Got some Chinese production model AKG K702s since they were on sale. Not the best, but what the hell. Still a major upgrade. Part of me hates these because now the AD700s sound fuzzy to me and I can pick out more recording flaws. (On the bright side, that DSD file of one of Mahler's symphonies I tested no longer sounds like crap.) But I'm sure that'll pass. That's music anyway. What about gaming performance?
 
Well, I have a RoG Xonar Phoebus and my X5. No amp, and I know that's important for the K702s but even without one, they're proving a worthy replacement. My favorite method of testing the value of a positional audio solution is to take it through a casual run on "The Passing" campaign in Left 4 Dead 2. I've found Dolby actually takes a huge dump on the audio positioning and the game's default headphone settings worked the best. The soundstage is a bit narrower, but the attention to detail more than makes up for it. I've traditionally had issues using audio in L4D2 during zombie swarm attacks since everyone's shooting and shouting and there's a lot of zombies running around gurgling profanities and death threats in Zombian. This meant I was most vulnerable to an attack by Special Infected when engaging other zombies. Not anymore. Because of the extra detail on the K702s, I could accurately track Special Infected at any time and pulled off a few sick doubles and triples thanks to that. That's more important than a somewhat wider soundstage since the soundstage is more than wide enough on the '702s and the placement within the soundstage is comparable. I also noticed some improvements in being able to tell the distance to the target. All in all, I would rate the K702s to be at the very least as good as the AD700s for positional audio since they do more than just tell you the direction, but also the distance, and they can keep track of more stuff going on at one time.
 
I've heard that the right DAC/amp combos can help with the soundstage and, well, everything else on these things a lot. I'm open to suggestions if anyone has them.