Portable hi-fi setup for a beginner

[YouriTielemans]

Hello everybody,

Before asking my question(s) I'd like to point out that I am a complete beginner when it comes to hi-fi sound, so please excuse me if I use some wrong terms (plus, English isn't my mother tongue) or if everything I say is nonsense.

I have always been a huge music fan (I mostly listen to Rock, but do like Hip-Hop and electronica as well), but I never really considered sound quality to be an important aspect of it, as I usually listen to music using my smartphone (LG G3) and my cheap in-ear headphones. All my songs are mp3 files, which apparently is an abomination for all audiophiles. Anyway, I recently discovered hi-fi sound for the first time and I was completely blown away, discovering sounds I had never heard before in songs I have listened to hundreds of times! This made me decide to get a portable setup that would allow me to listen to music in high quality. The problem is, I don't really know where to start and would love some help to find such a setup. After doing some research, I understood that you need the following three things:

1) A Digital Audio Player or DAP
2) Good (over-ear) headphones
3) Lossless music files

Is this correct, or is there something I am forgetting? Are these 3 elements completely indispensable? I shouldn't have too much problems to get the lossless music files, as I have most of my music on CDs as well. The other 2 are more of a problem. My budget is approximately 600€ for both. Do you have any recommendations?

I started looking around and I found two interesting DAPs: the Fiio X5 II (or maybe the X3 II) and the Cowon Plenue D. Or maybe these two are too high-end for someone who is just getting into hi-fi sound? Again, do you have any recommendations?

When it comes to the headphones, I am completely overwhelmed. There are so many headphones and I have no idea how I can compare them. I found the Bose Quietcomfort 35 and - since I have had good experiences with Bose - I am interested. Unfortunately, I noticed that the two DAPs I mentioned both don't support bluetooth, while the Bose QC35 are wireless. Do you have any other suggestions? Are over-ear headphones really a step forward compared to in-ear headphones? I would like to have a pair of both over-ear and in-ear headphones (I will soon have to replace my old ones, so I will have to buy a new pair), but I'm not sure whether it's worth getting expensive in-ear headphones as well, especially if I buy high-end over-ear headphones.

Any suggestions are welcome.

Thank you in advance!

 

[Dulalala]

I have always been a huge music fan (I mostly listen to Rock, but do like Hip-Hop and electronica as well), but I never really considered sound quality to be an important aspect of it, as I usually listen to music using my smartphone (LG G3) and my cheap in-ear headphones. All my songs are mp3 files, which apparently is an abomination for all audiophiles. Anyway, I recently discovered hi-fi sound for the first time and I was completely blown away, discovering sounds I had never heard before in songs I have listened to hundreds of times! This made me decide to get a portable setup that would allow me to listen to music in high quality. The problem is, I don't really know where to start and would love some help to find such a setup. After doing some research, I understood that you need the following three things:

1) A Digital Audio Player or DAP
2) Good (over-ear) headphones
3) Lossless music files

Is this correct, or is there something I am forgetting? Are these 3 elements completely indispensable? I shouldn't have too much problems to get the lossless music files, as I have most of my music on CDs as well. The other 2 are more of a problem. My budget is approximately 600€ for both. Do you have any recommendations?

I started looking around and I found two interesting DAPs: the Fiio X5 II (or maybe the X3 II) and the Cowon Plenue D. Or maybe these two are too high-end for someone who is just getting into hi-fi sound? Again, do you have any recommendations?

 
Well I personally disagree. For my own personal portable set up, I run everything off my phone (granted it has a decent DAC/Amp in it anyways and is much more convenient) and almost all of my music is in 320 kbps MP3 or 256 kbps AAC. I personally can't tell the difference between lossless and a high bit rate MP3 with correct volume leveling. I don't think it's worth paying a premium over lossless but if you have them on CD and have sufficient space, I see no issue in ripping it to FLAC and keeping it that way. If you want to get the most out of your money in terms of sound quality, the best way to go, in my opinion is to put all of it into a good IEM/headphone unless the IEM/headphone require more power than what your phone can provide which in that case you may need to by an external portable DAC/Amp or amp. In my opinion, the chain for which device should be prioritized is: Headphone ~> Amp ~> DAC   (under the assumption that there are no issues with your current setup)
 
If you're interested in seeing whether you can distinguish FLAC from a high bit rate MP3, you can try this site -- http://abx.digitalfeed.net/
 

When it comes to the headphones, I am completely overwhelmed. There are so many headphones and I have no idea how I can compare them. I found the Bose Quietcomfort 35 and - since I have had good experiences with Bose - I am interested. Unfortunately, I noticed that the two DAPs I mentioned both don't support bluetooth, while the Bose QC35 are wireless. Do you have any other suggestions? Are over-ear headphones really a step forward compared to in-ear headphones? I would like to have a pair of both over-ear and in-ear headphones (I will soon have to replace my old ones, so I will have to buy a new pair), but I'm not sure whether it's worth getting expensive in-ear headphones as well, especially if I buy high-end over-ear headphones.

 
I don't particularly like the QC35 apart from it's noise cancelling attributes. If you're looking for "better" sound quality, I think that the QC35 isn't exactly a good pick unless you really want its noise cancelling features. There aren't many high end closed back headphones, let alone portable high end closed back headphone, which I assume you are getting as it is for portable use, so I would recommend getting an IEM instead. If you give us a better idea of what kind of sound signature you like maybe we can give you some suitable suggestions. 

 

[ProtegeManiac]

I have always been a huge music fan (I mostly listen to Rock, but do like Hip-Hop and electronica as well), but I never really considered sound quality to be an important aspect of it, as I usually listen to music using my smartphone (LG G3) and my cheap in-ear headphones. All my songs are mp3 files, which apparently is an abomination for all audiophiles. Anyway, I recently discovered hi-fi sound for the first time and I was completely blown away, discovering sounds I had never heard before in songs I have listened to hundreds of times! This made me decide to get a portable setup that would allow me to listen to music in high quality. The problem is, I don't really know where to start and would love some help to find such a setup. After doing some research, I understood that you need the following three things:

1) A Digital Audio Player or DAP
2) Good (over-ear) headphones
3) Lossless music files

Is this correct, or is there something I am forgetting? Are these 3 elements completely indispensable? I shouldn't have too much problems to get the lossless music files, as I have most of my music on CDs as well. The other 2 are more of a problem. My budget is approximately 600€ for both. Do you have any recommendations?

 

You could invest in a good in-ear monitor instead of an open headphone, and even a lower output power DAP will handle it well. Most smartphones could too, just not your G3 (and a few others) - its performance without the B&O Friend is known to be crappy compared to the LG V-series and Samsung Galaxy Note series.
 

I started looking around and I found two interesting DAPs: the Fiio X5 II (or maybe the X3 II) and the Cowon Plenue D. Or maybe these two are too high-end for someone who is just getting into hi-fi sound? Again, do you have any recommendations?

 

I'd worry more about other things, like firmware stability, or what headphones or IEMs to use with them. These DAPs tend to not be enough for low sensitivity or high impedance headphones (vs real amps), but are totally overkill for IEMs given their very high sensitivity (there's the Fiio X1 for that, but instead of going for long battery life with a similar size, they made it smaller, and hence a smaller battery).
 

When it comes to the headphones, I am completely overwhelmed. There are so many headphones and I have no idea how I can compare them. I found the Bose Quietcomfort 35 and - since I have had good experiences with Bose - I am interested. Unfortunately, I noticed that the two DAPs I mentioned both don't support bluetooth, while the Bose QC35 are wireless. Do you have any other suggestions? Are over-ear headphones really a step forward compared to in-ear headphones? I would like to have a pair of both over-ear and in-ear headphones (I will soon have to replace my old ones, so I will have to buy a new pair), but I'm not sure whether it's worth getting expensive in-ear headphones as well, especially if I buy high-end over-ear headphones.

 

As much as some DAPs are getting BT now, I would not bother with using a BT with a BT headphone since that bypasses all the hardware relevant to the sound quality that the DAP was made for. For the most part BT functionality was added for convenience so that you could take the Fiio X1-II jogging or that you could use that or the X5III with a smartphone streaming audio from streaming services. In the latter case you'd still use the DAC and headphone amplifier circuits of the DAPs, unlike a BT headphone which will just make it function the same way as it would as a smartphone.

If you prefer the convenience of BT headphones I'd say skip the DAP entirely, because the good bit about these is that they can also bypass the crappy audio chip in your LG G3.

 

 

 

 

[PL4Y3R 0N3]

Those DAPs are both good, but I personally went with the Astell &Kern AK Jr. I liked the warmer sound signature compared to the Fiio x5ii.
As for portable headphones, I would suggest the Meze 99 Classics. Not sure how much all of that cost over there, but in the U.S. the AK and Meze combo was $610. I would suggest focusing on the headphones/IEM first, and dedicating most of the budget to that. That is where most of the sound quality difference is. Then, after you've picked some headphones, look at the remainder of your budget for a good player.

 

[YouriTielemans]

Thanks a lot for your help, I really appreciate it!
 
I will definitely try the high-fidelity test when I have some time, although I'm not sure whether it makes sense to try it on my macbook air (with IEMs), as the audio is pretty terrible.
 
I will probably go for some new IEMs just like you recommended, but I was wondering what kind of advantages they offer compared to over-ear headphones. I always thought that quality-wise, over-ear headphones had the edge, was I wrong? Or is this only valid for those huge and extremely pricy headphones that require amps? Do higher-end IEMs bring a significant improvement compared to the cheaper ones? Do you have any suggestions? I have a pretty high budget, but I'm only prepared to splash the cash if I can hear a difference (obviously). And are there really no closed and portable high-quality over-ear headphones that don't cost thousands of euros?
 
I think I will still go for a (cheap) DAP, perhaps the Fiio X1 II, as I would like to have all my music on a separate music player, and my LG G3 doesn't really suit my needs. Can the Fiio X1 II only be used with IEMs, or will it be able to power (I'm not sure whether that's the right term) some bigger over-ear headphones?
 
And finally - just out of curiosity, since I'm nowhere near having the required budget - I was wondering, what would the best possible portable set-up be? Do audiophiles actually walk around with their smartphone, DAC, AMP and high quality headphones or do they use a DAP and headphones?
 
Again, thank you for your time.

 

[dudlew]

Hello everybody,



Anyway, I recently discovered hi-fi sound for the first time and I was completely blown away, discovering sounds I had never heard before in songs I have listened to hundreds of times!

 


Just curious... what gave you the wow experience? Can you remember that setup? Was it headphone based or speaker based? What wowed you about it?

 

[YouriTielemans]

 

Hello everybody,



Anyway, I recently discovered hi-fi sound for the first time and I was completely blown away, discovering sounds I had never heard before in songs I have listened to hundreds of times!

 

 


Just curious... what gave you the wow experience? Can you remember that setup? Was it headphone based or speaker based? What wowed you about it?

The only thing I'm sure of, is that the headphones were the Sennheiser HD 800. I'm pretty sure that the music was being played off a Fiio X7, with an amp connected to it (I had no idea what it was at the time, so I might be wrong), but I have no idea which one.
 
I played the following songs (I think): Shine on You Crazy Diamond, Comfortably Numb, Marooned and Time by Pink Floyd as well as parts of Starless by King Crimson and Roundabout by Yes. I find it very hard to explain why it wowed me (especially in English), but from the moment it started, I was surprised by how clear the sound was. I had this incredible feeling that I myself couldn't explain, but I found a review (of the Sennheiser HD 800s) that describes it perfectly: "unmatched spacial presentation". I could also have sworn I heard sounds I never heard before.
 
But then again, maybe this was simply due to some kind of placebo-effect, as I was expecting so much of this Goliath-like setup (that's how I saw it)..
 
I wish I could explain it in more detail, but my English and my knowledge of audio are too limited.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  I will definitely try the high-fidelity test when I have some time, although I'm not sure whether it makes sense to try it on my macbook air (with IEMs), as the audio is pretty terrible.

 

Unless you have the new one and it's drastically different, I never found anything wrong really with the hardware on most Apple devices when it comes to audio. Maybe the iPods other than the Touch had weak amp chips that distorted too soon, but that's why they had a line out on the dock and why people strapped on amps.

 

In all other cases it had to do more with using the right headphones/earphones that wouldn't drive the Apple devices into their distortion zone.
 

 
I will probably go for some new IEMs just like you recommended, but I was wondering what kind of advantages they offer compared to over-ear headphones.

 

More compact, easier to stash in your bag/pocket, better isolation than even the largest headphones, higher sensitivity ie they need less power to play louder.
 

 
I always thought that quality-wise, over-ear headphones had the edge, was I wrong?

 

The soundstage size can be a bit larger but you have many downsides: lower sensitivity as even the most efficient headphones can't match most IEMs, which is further hampered by the lower isolation. The more ambient noise gets through the louder your music needs to be, which along with the lower efficiency, can mean you'll need a lot more power than what you can glean from the numbers, which were taken in a sound-isolated lab, which is more quiet than the average house (much less anywhere else you want to listen with headphones or IEMs).

 

On top of that, you could compensate by pouring in more power, but depending on the headphone, the amp that can do really well with it might be large and isn't running on batteries. IEMs at best just need a low output impedance, so practically any battery powered DAC-HPamp (or even entry level DAPs) will get around that issue if it even is one in your use case.
 

  Or is this only valid for those huge and extremely pricy headphones that require amps? 

 

No it's about the use case. If you want a portable system then you'd want something compact and isolates well from ambient noise. Otherwise you'd have to deal with the spiral of piling on more power that will require bigger amps or you get shorter battery life, problems easily avoided by using an IEM.
 

 
Do higher-end IEMs bring a significant improvement compared to the cheaper ones?

 

Midrange price vs entry level you get a smoother response. Once you get to around $1000 IEMs I personally would just split that between an IEM for use on the go and a headphone to use at home (plus whatever that headphone needs, like an amp).
 

  Do you have any suggestions? 

 

Look into the Fender FXA5, Westone W40 and W30, Shure SE535, etc. I wouldn't spend much more than the price of these IEMs on universal units, but I'd spend a little bit more to get a custom IEM. Something like 64Audio or Flipears.
 

  I have a pretty high budget, but I'm only prepared to splash the cash if I can hear a difference (obviously). 

 

Well you'd have to try them out and hear for yourself, this isn't anything we can determine for you, no matter how enthusiastic some of the other replies you get are. For example, I have friends who can't tell their Apple earphones from my Sennheiser HD600, but then again, they can't tune a guitar. That said, they all love Grados, and from a technical standpoint they're not as good as subjective evaluations would say (I'd blow money on a Headphile Vixen though if I had it - that's basically a Beyerdynamic chassis with Grado drivers and custom wood cups).
 
 

  And are there really no closed and portable high-quality over-ear headphones that don't cost thousands of euros?

 

Focal Spirit Pro and Spirit Classic, Sony MDR-1A (and MDR-1BT), AKG K553...but these come with several problems. First off, for the bulk, you have worse isolation than IEMs, and as much as they can be driven by a smartphone, that assumes you're in a quiet area like a hotel room. Second, except for a few headphones like the Spirit Pro and the ATH-M50X (whose sound I'm not really a fan of at that price, even if it's cheaper than the Focals), the finish on these are highly impractical in my book. Polished aluminum or plastic faux aluminum or any shiny, smooth metal or plastic collects scratches and dings relatively faster than the dull and rough texture on the Spirit Pro's surfaces.  
 
 

 
Can the Fiio X1 II only be used with IEMs, or will it be able to power (I'm not sure whether that's the right term) some bigger over-ear headphones?

 

It can drive Grados or even the Spirit Pro, MDR-1A, MSR7, etc, but again you're still dealing with the lower isolation. You might as well just get an IEM for portable use, then later on, choose a headphone (with less of a restriction on going with easy to drive headphones) for use at home, and the X1 will work docked into the K5 amplifier (which also charges it BTW)...

 

That's actually the X7, but in any case, X1 and newer models will work with the K5

 
 
...or just the DK1 dock which can keep Fiio DAPs upright on a desk and it has a USB sync/charge port and 3.5mm line out on the rear.

 
 

 
And finally - just out of curiosity, since I'm nowhere near having the required budget - I was wondering, what would the best possible portable set-up be? Do audiophiles actually walk around with their smartphone, DAC, AMP and high quality headphones or do they use a DAP and headphones?

 
Some do, I don't. Here's what I use on the go, and that case which is what was basically the packaging for the IEMs is only used when I don't trust the weather.

 

This is my daily load-out, with the IEM in a different pouch (black pouch between mug and camera, for size reference)...

 

...and this is when I need to go real light, with the IEM in a pocket.

 
And then this is what I use at home.

 

I'll probably get an X5III since it can run full Android and has a touchscreen, plus Fiio has the DK1 dock to keep it upright while having a 1.93v line output (virtually identical to home CDPs/car receivers and desktop DACs that run 2volts), but I'll still use an IEM on the go.

 

[YouriTielemans]

Thank you so much for your detailed answer! I will definitely keep everything you said in mind.
 
I just have a final question that isn't really related to the topic, but I don't think it's worth starting a new thread. I am very interested in learning more about everything that is related to high-end audio: training your ears, critical listening (I would love to be able to analyse music when it comes to frequency ranges, soundstaging, etc..) or high-fidelity components (DACs, Amps, headphones,...).
Do you have any suggestions for books/guides/magazines/... I could read?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  Thank you so much for your detailed answer! I will definitely keep everything you said in mind.
 
I just have a final question that isn't really related to the topic, but I don't think it's worth starting a new thread. I am very interested in learning more about everything that is related to high-end audio: training your ears, critical listening (I would love to be able to analyse music when it comes to frequency ranges, soundstaging, etc..) or high-fidelity components (DACs, Amps, headphones,...).
Do you have any suggestions for books/guides/magazines/... I could read?

 
Apart from the glossary here there really isn't a lot left. Maybe some audio and electrical engineering textbooks, or something by Nelson Pass.