[GetCool]

I have the following headphone setup that I use exclusively with my computer:

Terratec DMX 6fire card > homemade silver braid mini-mini IC > Headsave Transit META42 amp > Cardas cable > HD580s

My problem is lackluster bass in general. I listen to lossless FLAC files with foobar2000, and I don't get very good bass. I have tried using the equalizer in f2k, and it can improve bass output tremendously, but it just distorts things and makes the overall quality a lot worse.

I also watch DVDs with PowerDVD (using the Dolby Surround Headphone setting), and while I do hear more bass than when listening to music, it is still not as good as I'd like. This could be a separate issue, however; it could be related to the Dolby Headphone setting or other audio settings in PDVD.

So, my question is whether or not this could be an equipment thing. I don't really have any other equipment to swap out to test, like other phones or cables, etc. I have had this Headsave Transit amp for about 6 months, but I kept telling myself that it would get better as it got more hours of use. Well, it hasn't. I would like to know where to start to try fixing this. I have heard my HD580s on a completely different MGHead rig with a CD source, and they sounded a lot better than they do with my system.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions you may have.

 

[CRESCENDOPOWER]

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[m0nKeY bUsiNeSs]

Hmmm, i have a 6 fire with H600s and it has fairly good bass.
You might want to check the speaker configuration of your 6fire. if you are using headphones you should make sure it is set for 2 speakers, not 5.1 or something else.

 

[GetCool]

Quote:

Originally posted by CRESCENDOPOWER I think you just answered your own question. If you are looking for more bass try the Beyer DT-770 pros, because the HD-580s require a much better source than what you are using.

Of course, I know that a computer sound card is never the greatest source. But I am using an amplifier, am I not? Isn't that the purpose of these things? I realize that a META42 is not the best headphone amp, but I know there are a lot of people out there using a META42 with HD580/600s. If my source is the problem, well then I am stuck with it, but the whole reason I bought an amp in the first place was to compensate for my source's shortcomings...
Quote:

Originally posted by m0nKeY bUsiNeSs Hmmm, i have a 6 fire with H600s and it has fairly good bass. You might want to check the speaker configuration of your 6fire. if you are using headphones you should make sure it is set for 2 speakers, not 5.1 or something else.

Believe me, I have tried fooling with every option in the DMX 6fire control panel, the Windows sound management control panel applet, foobar2k, you name it. I have not yet produces any results.

Do you use an amplifier between your 6fire and your 600s? if so, which one? I'm curious.

 

[ServinginEcuador]

Quote:

Originally posted by GetCool ...But I am using an amplifier, am I not? Isn't that the purpose of these things?

GIGO is the word you're looking for. If you take a bad signal from something, and then amplify it, all you get is a louder, stronger bad signal. Amps can't fix a bad signal, merely pass it along with more juice behind it.

After listening to what you said I have a couple of questions:

1. You said a DVD has better bass than music CDs. Are these both being played thru the same unit, or do you have a separate DVD player and CD player?

2. Do you like a lot of bass in your music?


Your problem could be that either the source, cans or sound card simply don't have as much bass as you would like. A likely culprit are the cans, but that depends upon the amount of bass you are looking for. Teeth rattling bass will not come from those Senns. That will take something like the Sony V6 or Beyer DT-770.

Is there anyone near you that could drop by with a pair of bass heavy cans to try out with your setup? If not, find a used pair to buy and try out. That way if you don't like them you could sell them for little to no loss.

 

[GetCool]

Quote:

Originally posted by ServinginEcuador GIGO is the word you're looking for. If you take a bad signal from something, and then amplify it, all you get is a louder, stronger bad signal. Amps can't fix a bad signal, merely pass it along with more juice behind it. After listening to what you said I have a couple of questions: 1. You said a DVD has better bass than music CDs. Are these both being played thru the same unit, or do you have a separate DVD player and CD player? 2. Do you like a lot of bass in your music? Your problem could be that either the source, cans or sound card simply don't have as much bass as you would like. A likely culprit are the cans, but that depends upon the amount of bass you are looking for. Teeth rattling bass will not come from those Senns. That will take something like the Sony V6 or Beyer DT-770. Is there anyone near you that could drop by with a pair of bass heavy cans to try out with your setup? If not, find a used pair to buy and try out. That way if you don't like them you could sell them for little to no loss.

Thanks for the response. Like I said, I do understand that a computer sound card is not a great source. I also understand that an amp can't magically take a bad signal and turn it into something great. I am fairly new to headphone amplification, but I said what you quoted me as saying mainly out of frustration; I did do some research before buying my stuff, and I read about other people using similar setups with computer sound card sources. Maybe I expected too much?

In any case, to answer your questions...

1. I play CDs and DVDs from the same source: my computer. Everything comes from my 6fire sound card. I brought up the DVD thing because it seems intriguing; it leads me to believe that perhaps there is more potential here that I am somehow not getting all the time...

2. I do like bass, but I am not after the exceedingly booming bass that you speak of. I listen almost exclusively to classical and jazz, so I'm not seeking crazy amounts of bass here. However, the amount of bass I'm actually hearing is just not up to par. If I listen to a classical piece, I have a really hard time hearing almost any bass, which really stinks.

I guess what I wanted to get out of this thread were suggestions on things to try to improve my situation. I don't expect a miracle here, but I'm not exactly satisfied with my system at the moment, which is frustrating to me because I thought I was making a good decision when I did my research and placed my orders. I do appreciate your suggestions, though, and I will try another pair of headphones if I have the opportunity.

 

[ServinginEcuador]

GetCool,

In this case I was poorly wording my question about your source. What I mean is whether you use a CD-ROM for music and a DVD player for movies.


It would seem to me that the weak link is somewhere else in the chain. I owned the HD600 for years and it was not light in the bass. It could be that the low end response of that sound card is not up to snuff.

The other option is to have a bass boost module added. This will only work if the sound card is outputing a signal at the lower end of the sound spectrum. If it is, but it is weak, this would be an easy and pretty cheap fix. A two position selectable and defeatable bass boost would likely fix this problem.

 

[fredpb]

My 580s were a bit thin at first. I put them on a cd player for 100 hours, and that really helped.

Soundcards, as others have mentioned, may not be the greatest source.

You might try your cans with another source, with the headphone amp.

 

[pkasting]

If you "hear almost no bass" I would suspect an actual defect somewhere. The DMX 6-Fire and META42 may not be top of the line but they're most certainly not "no bass at all". Heck, even crappy soundcards usually aren't guilty of that.

What I'd do is try and eliminate variables from your equation: for example, take a known-working stero and hook your headphones to it, and check the bass response, try and make certain the problem is not the headphones (also try plugging someone else's headphones into your computer setup). Then try taking your amp out of the computer setup and see how that affects things, or plugging it into the stereo system. Try plugging your amp/headphones into a buddy's computer or a different soundcard somewhere. Use a different media player, etc. Find out which things cause the bass to change and which do not, so you know which parts of the system, intentionally or not, are causing the weak bass. Then you will be much closer to tracking down whether it's more a sonic signature or whether something's actually broken.

 

[GetCool]

I may have overstated that a bit; I meant I heard "almost no bass" in some of my music, but not all. Generally it is poor across the board, but it's not nonexistent. I do suspect a problem somewhere, though, as I don't think it's just me; it just doesn't sound right, and I haven't really read about other people having problems of this nature with similar setups.

In any case, thanks to all for your suggestions. I will try my best to isolate the problem by going component to component and trying different things.

 

[JeffL]

When you use the EQ in foobar, you want to bring DOWN the frequencies you *don't* want, not bring up the ones you do.

Digital EQs have NO room for headroom above 0dB, therefore it will clip. You either want an analog EQ after the soundcard and before the amp, or to invert what you are trying to do with foobars built in EQ.

This gives an 18dB boost of bass...granted that was an insane amount of bass, and I would never do that, but it does show how you should set the EQ to do the job cleanly.

 

[davidmiya]

Quote:

Originally posted by ServinginEcuador The other option is to have a bass boost module added. This will only work if the sound card is outputing a signal at the lower end of the sound spectrum. If it is, but it is weak, this would be an easy and pretty cheap fix. A two position selectable and defeatable bass boost would likely fix this problem.

I second that. I owned the HD600's and believe the bass to be thin on a number of my CD's. At the time, I was using an NAD c541i and a PPA. The NAD is famous for having a lean bass. The PPA had a little more bass than the Meta42, but not a lot more. The real clincher for me was the bypassable bass boost function. On classical music, it was wayyy too much. However, on rock, it was the only way to get the kind of slammin bass that I love.

I highly recommend that you get ANY kind of bypassable bass boost circuit. It's really the only way to get a good bass unless you have some Amazing amp that will do it without messing up the rest of the tonal balance. Though, I think you'd probably have to buy a Blockhead for that happen. (the Blockhead has no need of a bass boost function - if it did, it'd probaby blow up your phones)

 

[Wodgy]

JeffL, that's not a good way to use the Foobar equalizer. When you move a slider away from 0dB, you invoke a FIR filter at that frequency -- by moving most of the sliders downwards, even though the equalizer looks flat above 110Hz, you're adding dozens of unnecessary filters to the signal path, introducing all sorts of phase artifacts (if the equalizer is good) and possibly amplitude/FR artifacts (if the equalizer is not so good).

If you're getting clipping when you use the Foobar equalizer (i.e. if you increase some of the bass sliders above 0dB), use the "preamp" feature in foobar to lower the volume uniformly before applying the equalizer. This is what the preamp feature is for.

 

[GetCool]

Quote:

Originally posted by Wodgy JeffL, that's not a good way to use the Foobar equalizer. When you move a slider away from 0dB, you invoke a FIR filter at that frequency -- by moving most of the sliders downwards, even though the equalizer looks flat above 110Hz, you're adding dozens of unnecessary filters to the signal path, introducing all sorts of phase artifacts (if the equalizer is good) and possibly amplitude/FR artifacts (if the equalizer is not so good). If you're getting clipping when you use the Foobar equalizer (i.e. if you increase some of the bass sliders above 0dB), use the "preamp" feature in foobar to lower the volume uniformly before applying the equalizer. This is what the preamp feature is for.

Wow, Wodgy, that actually helped a lot. I can actually use the equalizer now. I'm going to have to tinker with it to figure out the best configuration, but I think you're on to something here.
Quote:

Originally posted by davidmiya I highly recommend that you get ANY kind of bypassable bass boost circuit.

Thanks for the suggestion, but do you have any recommendation for where to start? I've never used one of these things before...

 

[pbirkett]

I am surprised you have bass problems with a DMX 6-fire, I have the EWX here, and its bass is very powerful and solid. I'd have to say its either an amp issue, or the headphones simply cannot reproduce the bass you require. I have had plenty of bass out of this soundcard with every pair of headphones I've tried from the EWX.