[RRod]

I think what we need is to stay a separate "Bash Neil Young" thread, and use this for ACTUAL IMPRESSIONS OF THE PLAYER! I also have been through a number of players, including various i devices, a dx90, a Fiio X3 (which I have my daughter), and for portable use I only use the Pono. Sounds much better to me than my others. I am starting to notice some headphones do better with it than others, but that's true of any player.

 
There's this thread:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/737093/the-ponomusic-ponoplayer-impressions-thread
for actual impressions of the player.

 

[olddude]

Both threads are Pono threads, and Pono owners are posting on both threads.  That one is about 38 pages, this one is over 200 pages.  

 

[RRod]

  Both threads are Pono threads, and Pono owners are posting on both threads.  That one is about 38 pages, this one is over 200 pages.  

 
And?

 

[olddude]

   
There's this thread:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/737093/the-ponomusic-ponoplayer-impressions-thread
for actual impressions of the player.

There are "actual impressions" of the Pono on both threads by actual Pono owners.  I don't see how either thread should be used to "bash" the Pono by folks that don't have one, if that was your point (I'm unclear on what you are suggesting).  As I've said over and over, I don't go on any thread and make comments about a device I don't own.  I may ask questions about it if I'm considering buying it, but other than that, politeness dictates that I don't make comments about a device I don't own.  

 

[RRod]

 
There are "actual impressions" of the Pono on both threads by actual Pono owners.  I don't see how either thread should be used to "bash" the Pono by folks that don't have one, if that was your point (I'm unclear on what you are suggesting).  As I've said over and over, I don't go on any thread and make comments about a device I don't own.  I may ask questions about it if I'm considering buying it, but other than that, politeness dictates that I don't make comments about a device I don't own.  

 
My point is that for a product that has generated this much discussion, there needs to be a thread that is dedicated to general discussion of the player. Not just impressions of the owners, but of all topics related to it: its marketing, its technology and specifications, and the scientific and pseudo-scientific claims used to promote it. These aspects have nothing to do with owning the thing. When people hear about the Pono and want to learn about it, they search on the web and will likely end up at this thread at some point. There is an onus on people who know about the technical side to counter spurious claims (e.g. the "staircase" diagram posted earlier or Young's "5%" remark) so that would-be buyers are making an informed decision. As a non-owner, I don't say things like "wow it sounds bad!", because how would I know? That doesn't change how things like audio theory work, and those kinds of facts should be understood by people entering the hi-fi world.

 

[SallymaeHogsby]

Hey #olddude,

You're my FiiO-to-Pono authority.

I have a Pono on order. I listen to microSDs of folder-playlists on my FiiO X1 and X3. Will I be able to just pop my various FiiO-formatted cards into my Pono, and continue listening to them the same way? Or is there something I'll have to do differently?

 

[olddude]

Hey #olddude,

You're my FiiO-to-Pono authority.

I have a Pono on order. I listen to microSDs of folder-playlists on my FiiO X1 and X3. Will I be able to just pop my various FiiO-formatted cards into my Pono, and continue listening to them the same way? Or is there something I'll have to do differently?

I did with no problems.  Enjoy your new toy.

 

[CountryBoy]

Well I've taken the plunge and have a Pono on the way - guess I'll find out if HRA if worthwhile for me. Even if it isn't, I'll still have a player designed by Ayre - a highly respected(by some,anyway) manufacturer - with no pre-ringing and a zero-feedback output stage - all for $399 - only a little bit more than I have invested in my iPod touch + FiiO E12 combo. Irrespective of what the "sound science" allegedly says, I'd say that is damn good value!

 

[olddude]

   
My point is that for a product that has generated this much discussion, there needs to be a thread that is dedicated to general discussion of the player. Not just impressions of the owners, but of all topics related to it: its marketing, its technology and specifications, and the scientific and pseudo-scientific claims used to promote it. These aspects have nothing to do with owning the thing. When people hear about the Pono and want to learn about it, they search on the web and will likely end up at this thread at some point. There is an onus on people who know about the technical side to counter spurious claims (e.g. the "staircase" diagram posted earlier or Young's "5%" remark) so that would-be buyers are making an informed decision. As a non-owner, I don't say things like "wow it sounds bad!", because how would I know? That doesn't change how things like audio theory work, and those kinds of facts should be understood by people entering the hi-fi world.

I simply do not agree with you.  You have no empirical knowledge of the device.  You are setting yourself up as the arbiter of truth and reason and science.  If someone comes to a Pono thread and asks questions, Pono owners can answer them.  What you are suggesting is that you know better and should be able to go anywhere you want and say whatever you want because you hold the truth in your hand.  If you want to tell folks about "audio theory," go to Sound Science and knock yourself out.   
 
I've held off reporting some of the posters here (others have not) because I do feel that we should be able to work things out on our own.  But your comment puts things in a very clear light. 

 

[RRod]

 
I simply do not agree with you.  You have no empirical knowledge of the device.  You are setting yourself up as the arbiter of truth and reason and science.  If someone comes to a Pono thread and asks questions, Pono owners can answer them.  What you are suggesting is that you know better and should be able to go anywhere you want and say whatever you want because you hold the truth in your hand.  If you want to tell folks about "audio theory," go to Sound Science and knock yourself out.   
 
I've held off reporting some of the posters here (others have not) because I do feel that we should be able to work things out on our own.  But your comment puts things in a very clear light. 

 
Yet you have owners on here parroting things like the 5% claim; why don't they also take that to Sound Science and debate it out? This is the big thread, it's where the general discussion happens, and that includes everything from the store to the guts of the thing. Report all you want.

 

[Jackson 6]

  After reading all this debate re MP3 and Hi-Res I am a little confused. If your headphones say for example have a frequency response of 20Hz-20Khz that means they will not playback anything lower than 20Hz or higher than 20Khz correct??
 
Come to think of it DAP's usually have a stated frequency response as well so the question is the same for them - what gives?? The AK240 quotes 10Hz-70Khz. There would be no point pairing cans with say a 20-20 frequency responce to the AK240 I'm assuming. Something like the Sony Z7 or any other pair of headphones with the appropriate frequency response. Is frequency response relevant at all??
 
Very confusing.
 
Back to the debate from what I read the "inaudibility brigade" are more likely to quote scientific facts where as the "hi-res brigade" including Mr Young are just saying it sounds better and that is that.
 
Either way I really think the ops who are engaged in this debate should take it to the appropriate thread. Trouble is you do not. What are you afraid of??

Nothing at all! There' s always a bigger fish, I'd just rather spend AK hi end money on a hi fi system, and am happy with 320 kbps with my A17 and H3 iem for portable. I am not cloth eared, and know the full sq of DSD both via the 120 and 240, and that's with lower grade in ears.

 

[doctorjazz]

I'm mixed on about this stuff...on the one hand, there are certainly scientists and engineers who don't believe the digital theories tell the whole story, even if they had practical utility in developing digital music recordings, and it is tiresome hearing again and again that "science" proves this out that about the uselessness of recording and listening to high rez music. On the other hand, as show biz folks say, bad press is better than no press. There is so little awareness of even the possibility that such a thing as good sound or high end audio even EXISTS, that even having the discussion about it had to be than bring invisible to the public!

 

[mink70]

I began reading this thread because my Pono Player has gotten me involved in listening to music on headphones like nothing else has in years. That's after I sold most of my phones, a tube head amp and DAC that cost over $4K, and nearly gave up the hobby. As Tyll Hertsens wrote on his site, this little player raises serious questions about what exactly makes audio playback involving and pleasurable—and points to the fact that we have much to learn on that count. That I would like to read about. 
 
Instead, this thread has devolved into useless and toxic experience. Instead of talking about the Pono Player, most posters seem to want to yell at each other about the audibility of digital sampling rates, dazzle us with half-baked expertise, and offer opinion(s) about Neil Young. And perhaps the very title of this thread has posed an invitation to these bullies and trolls. So I'm heading to the other Pono thread in the hopes that it can be revived by people who are actually interested in listening to this thing, and do. In the meantime, I hope Jude or Currawong delete this swampy little piece of the Internet. 

 

[Jackson 6]

I ain't trolling the PONO player, I'm pretty sure it's a fine DAP, as I respect Tyll's opinion. I don't respect NY's 5% hyper troll however, he's a very naughty long term respected song writer.

 

[oldmate]

  I ain't trolling the PONO player, I'm pretty sure it's a fine DAP, as I respect Tyll's opinion. I don't respect NY's 5% hyper troll however, he's a very naughty long term respected song writer.

From what I have read the Pono is a mighty fine DAP. I do not own one as I have already have 3 DAP's but I would love to hear one. With regard to Mr Young he's probably smoking a spliff rolling on the floor laughing at all the controversy, as was his intention. From a marketing point of view and bringing a new DAP into an already rather crowded market just utterly brilliant!!
 
Oh, and by the way, it plays MP3's.
 
I have an opinion on 24/192 but this is not the thread for that.