Poll: Were the moon landings fake?
Jul 16, 2009 at 8:48 AM Post #151 of 468
Quote:

Originally Posted by Graphicism /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Keeping it civil, 4 simple questions:

01. Where are the stars in the lunar surface photographs?
02. Why was the flag waving despite there being no air on the moon?
03. Why was there no blast crater beneath the lunar lander?
04. Why did the camera not melt due to high levels of heat and radiation?



Courtesy beerguy0, on page three of this very thread:

Phil Plait's Bad Astronomy: Bad TV
 
Jul 16, 2009 at 9:37 AM Post #153 of 468
I believe that there is a possibility that nobody has ever landed on the moon,but of course that's just my opinion.I have not searched a lot for this to find much information,i've just watched some things on tv and newspapers about that(the waving flag,the dust from the footsteps,that this is a desert somewhere and many more theories.
I would only believe that if i was one of those who landed on the moon to see it with my own eyes.I don't trust anyone anymore,especially if it has to do with gonverements etc.
Simple people of our everyday lifes tell so many lies everyday,so do you expect the moon landings to be true if you haven't seen it with your own eyes?
So for that reason,i don't vote.I didn't see that in person so i can't know if it's true.
 
Jul 16, 2009 at 9:42 AM Post #154 of 468
Quote:

Originally Posted by john53 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I believe that there is a possibility that nobody has ever landed on the moon,but of course that's just my opinion.I have not searched a lot for this to find much information,i've just watched some things on tv and newspapers about that(the waving flag,the dust from the footsteps,that this is a desert somewhere and many more theories.
I would only believe that if i was one of those who landed on the moon to see it with my own eyes.I don't trust anyone anymore,especially if it has to do with gonverements etc.
Simple people of our everyday lifes tell so many lies everyday,so do you expect the moon landings to be true if you haven't seen it with your own eyes?
So for that reason,i don't vote.I didn't see that in person so i can't know if it's true.



Do you believe in photosynthesis?
 
Jul 16, 2009 at 9:43 AM Post #155 of 468
Quote:

Originally Posted by Graphicism /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Keeping it civil, 4 simple questions:

01. Where are the stars in the lunar surface photographs?
02. Why was the flag waving despite there being no air on the moon?
03. Why was there no blast crater beneath the lunar lander?
04. Why did the camera not melt due to high levels of heat and radiation?



Quote:

Originally Posted by steviebee /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Courtesy beerguy0, on page three of this very thread:

Phil Plait's Bad Astronomy: Bad TV



Thanks for reposting this. At least one or two people actually did read the thread.
 
Jul 16, 2009 at 9:45 AM Post #156 of 468
Quote:

Originally Posted by john53 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I believe that there is a possibility that nobody has ever landed on the moon,but of course that's just my opinion.I have not searched a lot for this to find much information,i've just watched some things on tv and newspapers about that(the waving flag,the dust from the footsteps,that this is a desert somewhere and many more theories.


Perhaps develop an opinion based on some actual information then.

So the only thing we can be sure of are those we can see for ourselves? THe whole world did - 40 years ago.

But of course governments are far too clever for us. They are able to recruit the worldwide space agencies, 1000s of scientists and astronauts to fake the whole thing, and keep it all secret long after they've been voted out?
 
Jul 16, 2009 at 10:02 AM Post #158 of 468
Sorry for giving my opinion this way,you are right because i haven't searched much for this to have a valuable opinion.
I said that because i see that people tell sooooooo many lies everyday and some times i find it difficult to understand if somebody tells the truth or not.
Of course there are many persons i trust in my life but i can see that people in general tell many lies for many reasons.(that goes to me too)
For the few things i've watched till now about this i find it very diffucult to believe it.I don't say that i don't believe it 100% but i have my doubts.Especially if gonverments are involved.
 
Jul 16, 2009 at 10:07 AM Post #159 of 468
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dublo7 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Do you believe in photosynthesis?


your reasoning is not right.you cannot compare these things.I am afraid you did not understand what my point was.
I really like the idea that man landed on the moon,it's very fascinating and brings me a magical emotion in my soul.
 
Jul 16, 2009 at 10:14 AM Post #160 of 468
I read the thread in full, in fact my first post was on page 3 after reading through. I can't take Phil Plait seriously, he's a failed astronaut turned science fiction writer who now appears at comic con to sell his merchandise. When I asked those 4 simple questions I was looking to gage the opinion of individual who believe we went to the moon, perhaps this was asking for too much?

Okay, so let's debunk the debunker, then what?

-
01. Where are the stars in the lunar surface photographs?

Phil: The stars are there! They're just too faint to be seen. He goes on to talk about exposure and to test this ourselves 'with the exact same camera settings the astronauts used'

Right Phil! I'll just pull out my Lunar Hasselblad and give this a shot!

-
02. Why was the flag waving despite there being no air on the moon?

Phil: In a vacuum or not, when you whip around the vertical pole, the flag will ``wave'', since it is attached at the top.

This is completely False, no one was touching the flag in the video and yet it was waving.

-
03. Why was there no blast crater beneath the lunar lander?

Phil: Sure, the rocket on the lander was capable of 10,000 pounds of thrust, but they had a throttle.

Sounds nice on paper, but in reality it would be somewhat like a Harrier landing in the desert. YouTube - AV8-B Harrier Landing onboard the USS Bataan

-
04. Why did the camera not melt due to high levels of heat and radiation?

Phil: No explanation

May I also add that if you can't think for yourself at least get your information from someone who doesn't confuse ducks with UFOs. 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?

Oh and as for the icing on the cake: Phil Plait's Bad Astronomy: Bad TV ~ he agrees with the media, no suprise... CNN, Time, NYT say 6% when the people say 20%, just look up!
 
Jul 16, 2009 at 10:15 AM Post #161 of 468
Something else:some people say that Michael Jackson was pedophile.It may be true,it may not.I haven't searched for this to have a valuable opinion,i just believe that the kid's family created all this story to make huge money out of nothing.But again it's just my opinion,i can't be 100% sure,that's just what i think
I know this example is off topic,i just wanted to say that without having searched seriously about some things i simply have an opinion on some things as everybody else has.But i'm not trying to say that my opinion is the valid one and everybody else is wrong.We just make a discusion here
 
Jul 16, 2009 at 10:53 AM Post #162 of 468
There's an underlying epistemic question here about whether we ought to believe things we cannot verify with direct personal experience. Photosynthesis is one example, as is the existence of the Sun and planets, at least if we require _direct_ experience (as we can only use indirect, observational evidence for many such claims). The fact is that we simply cannot touch most of the Universe, nor can we directly experience the very large or very small. Some things are simply outside of our experiential capacity. That said, should we discount anything we cannot confirm through direct experience? If we did, we would be discounting most everything we presently take to be knowledge, as we are only able to verify an incredibly small number of things directly.

As for the possibility of a lunar hoax, that again would require dismissing the personal experience of thousands (millions?) directly involved in the program and would also require a conspiracy of astronomical proportions.
 
Jul 16, 2009 at 11:28 AM Post #163 of 468
Quote:

Graphicism:
Okay, so let's debunk the debunker, then what?


My responses to your four questions. Probably not enough for you, but it's my best shot.
-
Quote:

01. Where are the stars in the lunar surface photographs?

Phil: The stars are there! They're just too faint to be seen. He goes on to talk about exposure and to test this ourselves 'with the exact same camera settings the astronauts used'

Right Phil! I'll just pull out my Lunar Hasselblad and give this a shot!


You don't need a lunar Hasselblad. Take any camera, and set it to normal daylight exposure, say 1/125s@f/16, using the sunny 16 rule. (ISO 100 for a digital camera) Go outside on a dark night and take a picture of a starry sky. You will have a black frame, I guarantee it. (I've been in photography for 45 years, so I do know what I'm talking about.) Also, read what he said carefully - same camera settings, not the same camera.

In fact, I would bet that you would have a hard time even seeing all but the very brightest stars with the naked eye during lunar daytime, simply because of the brightness. Your pupils constrict, so as to avoid damaging your retina. The stars are dim and you won't be able to see them.
-
Quote:

02. Why was the flag waving despite there being no air on the moon?

Phil: In a vacuum or not, when you whip around the vertical pole, the flag will ``wave'', since it is attached at the top.

This is completely False, no one was touching the flag in the video and yet it was waving.


Waving a Flag on the Moon

Perhaps this is a better explanation?
-
Quote:

03. Why was there no blast crater beneath the lunar lander?

Phil: Sure, the rocket on the lander was capable of 10,000 pounds of thrust, but they had a throttle.

Sounds nice on paper, but in reality it would be somewhat like a Harrier landing in the desert. YouTube - AV8-B Harrier Landing onboard the USS Bataan


I've seen Harriers land in person. There's a lot of dust, depending on conditions, but no crater. Also, depending on the depth of the lunar regolith, once the dust has blown away you're down to rock, which is much more resistant to the rocket blast. A rocket lifting off is more likely to make a crater, since it has to build up thrust. - that's why NASA has launch pads with heatproof blast pits.

-
Quote:

04. Why did the camera not melt due to high levels of heat and radiation?

Phil: No explanation


The moon has no atmosphere. We have hot days on Earth because the air heats up. No air, no heat. The temperatures often quoted for the moon are surface temperatures. The side of the camera facing the Sun will get hot, but the rest of the camera is radiating heat away into space. Outer space is a pretty effective heatsink.

If there was sufficient radiation to melt the camera, I don't think the space suit would have fared much better.

Quote:

May I also add that if you can't think for yourself at least get your information from someone who doesn't confuse ducks with UFOs. 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?


I can think for myself. I grew up with the space program, and was 11 at the time of the first moon landing. I firmly believe we went there, when we said we did. It boggles my mind that people can think we didn't.

The latest lunar orbiter has sufficient resolution to see the early landing sites. I wonder what the conspiracy theorists will have to say about that?
 
Jul 16, 2009 at 11:49 AM Post #164 of 468
Makes me wonder what proportion of lunax hoaxers are too young to have witnessed the space race. My suspicion is that most hoaxers simply haven't spent sufficient time familiarizing themselves with the evidence, something already a given for those people who witnessed the events as they unfolded.
 
Jul 16, 2009 at 12:34 PM Post #165 of 468
Mythbusters also did a whole show on the moon myths. The conspiracy theorists arguments were all pretty much busted...Youtube them.
 

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