[spaceman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer No, unless they have a positive drug test. Otherwise he would be convicted vis-a-vi association with known steroid users/suppliers. While that might be compelling circumstantial evidence, without a positive test, it can't verify that he knowingly took the drugs. I think taking action against him or any other athlete without definitive proof is not far from McCarthyism. Look at the B.S. Lance Armstrong has had to endure (of course the U.S. press hasn't trashed him, but the Euros sure have). I say drug test 'em all, on close intervals, and the proof will be in the pudding. There is not much we can do about the past, if they were too stupid to test for drugs back then. Of course, who's to say Aaron, Ruth, Muhammed Ali, Jesse Owens, and god knows who else might have used drugs, simply because such things weren't policed back then...

Agreed.
FYI: according to the ICU last week, Lance Armstrong was cleared of all doping accusations and numerous agencies were reprimanded for their breech of confidentiality and poor handling of specimens.

 

[AdamCalifornia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JahJahBinks well, espn analysis believed bond could hit 614 by now w/o using stereiod.

Well, I think that this would be a strong message to the baseball league.
Perhaps they should erase McGuire's record as well? How about Sosa?
Has he ever been accused of using any enhancements?
What about this book in which Jose Canseco was accusing more players about using prohibited drugs?

Adam

 

[Aman]

Even if he didn't take steroids knowingly, he still DID them. He used an aid that is illegal in both the country and the league. Personal achievements are what bring people to the top of the charts, not artificial treatment. If he was completely unaware of what he was doing (I think you'd have to be pretty stupid) then it's tought luck for him. He doesn't deserve what he didn't earn.

 

[incognitoedleon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman Even if he didn't take steroids knowingly, he still DID them. He used an aid that is illegal in both the country and the league.

Actually, that statement may be false. As far as I know, steroids were not written as illegal in baseball when Bonds, Sosa and McGwire may have took them. Therefore, if they did take steroids, it was not actually against the rules of baseball at the time. So they were not technically doing anything wrong. Therefore, their acheivements could not actually be taken away. Also the common argument goes that even if some batters were taking steriods, they were facing steroided pitchers as well. The easiest and most logical thing for baseball to do is leave the statistics as it is. While I certainly am not endorsing steroids and the players that used them, cheating has always been in baseball. From scuffed balls, stolen signs, special homefield groundskeeping and the use of "greenies" that still go on undeterred today.

 

[gimmieshelter31]

Since the beginning players have sought an edge ,as have owners,groundskeepers etc. How many of Bonds' homers have come off of pitchers using steroids? I do not like Barry Bonds , but until he gets caught currently using steroids in my mind his records stand and he is a Hall of Fame ballplayer.

 

[roadtonowhere08]

I voted yes, because I think he is a jerk and my view of justice is a little different than most people's. Having said that, I honestly do not care at all because it is to the point where everyone is at fault except for those players who actually played by the rules. Baseball (as well as most pro sports) has become a total joke and a league of investments instead of players.

 

[felixkrull6]

Forget whether he did steroids or not. In a pragmatic sense, how would you go about wiping Bonds' stats from the record book even if it is eventually proven that he knowingly took steroids? For everything good that happens for a hitter, something bad has to happen to the pitcher. Do you go back and alter every single statline for every single pitcher who ever faced Bonds? What about the runs scored by players because of the homeruns that Bonds hit? I could go on and on but I think you get my point. For those who want to wipe out Bonds' records I want some practical solutions to this problem. You can't just wipe out Bonds and pretend like he never existed.

Lets remember that the White Sox in 1919 threw the World Series and were actually convicted of it and those stats haven't been erased. Jose Canseco has admitted to doing steroids while winning the 1988 AL MVP and most people will agree that Ken Caminiti was roided up during his 1996 ML MVP year and baseball has no intention of taking away those MVPs. What makes anyone think that Bonds' stats will be erased? I know that homerun records are important to people but it is almost impossible to wipe out Bonds' records in any practical sense without causing a ginormous mess in the record books. If you hope for Bonds' records to be wiped out you should also be on the warpath about all the other players that we know have done steroids.

 

[KYTGuy]

I am only a part-time fan of baseball.

I voted 'no" because it has not been proved yet.

The record shows what is achievable, and should stand, absent some incontrovertable proof that he cheated/used drugs. The "odor" of cheating has already attached to his record, and will follow him forever. He deserves the dreaded asterisk if and only if, he is determined to have used drugs.

 

[meat01]

While we are at it, let's erase Rafael Palmeiro's 3000 hits and 500 home runs, since he actually tested positive for steroids.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...080100739.html

 

[JahJahBinks]

How about we get urine sample from players whenever they hit a home run during the game? let's right, if he hits two HRs in a game he's forced to pee twice once he returns back to the dugout.

 

[luckybaer]

No. He hasn't been found guilty of anything - except for being a jerk.

Anyway, I think fans of baseball will look upon the "Steroid Era" as just another era, like the "Deadball Era" or the time period before they lowered the pitching mound.

Smart fans will view statistics within the context of the era in which they were generated.

 

[AdamCalifornia]

Famous Diego Maradonna was kicked out of the soccer World Cup'95 in the USA?
Do you remember this candal?
See my original post #1 in this thread. I edited it!

Adam

 

[AdamCalifornia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadtonowhere08 I voted yes, because I think he is a jerk and my view of justice is a little different than most people's. Having said that, I honestly do not care at all because it is to the point where everyone is at fault except for those players who actually played by the rules. Baseball (as well as most pro sports) has become a total joke and a league of investments instead of players.

It's not about fair game or sport per se any more, it's about money!!!
Because of the money involved, he was never caught, is not caught, and will never be caught! Period!

Adam