[The Rino]

I have a pair of Beyer 770pro's and a pair of Denon D5000's. I want to recable both and am not sure which is the positive and which is the negative terminals on them. I'm assuming that I need to get this right or face damage to something. They are both single ended terminations. The Beyers have no + or - marks on them and both drivers look the same. I didn't open the Denon's yet. I know that if you have the polarity switched on only one of the drivers the phones will be out of phase, but what if both drivers are wrong, are they out of phase then or just reverse polarity? Are there any audible tests I can perform? Your help would be great.

 

[ourfpshero]

hmm- tricky. i know if speakers are out of phase you lose bass. ez to tell because u can get more bass if the balance is all to one side. since headphones share a ground wire direct from the source the sound will be terrible/weak/balanced more to one side if the wiring is wrong. the common wire is the ground. hook the suspected ground wire to both speakers first, then one of the positive wires. plug it into a pc and shift the balance back and forth. if the balance doesnt react correctly the wiring is wrong and try another combo. this should only take a few minutes as there is only 3 wires

 

[Moontan13]

cuz I'm an idiot...

 

[obobskivich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ourfpshero /img/forum/go_quote.gif hmm- tricky. i know if speakers are out of phase you lose bass. ez to tell because u can get more bass if the balance is all to one side. since headphones share a ground wire direct from the source the sound will be terrible/weak/balanced more to one side if the wiring is wrong. the common wire is the ground. hook the suspected ground wire to both speakers first, then one of the positive wires. plug it into a pc and shift the balance back and forth. if the balance doesnt react correctly the wiring is wrong and try another combo. this should only take a few minutes as there is only 3 wires

theres actually four wires, until you get down to the SE termination, the grounds are connected at the end of the line, and thats where you get "issues" (because things can go from one driver to the other via that line, in some theories)

iirc the Denon's will have a red mark on the positive polarity side of each driver's little PCB (don't have mine anymore, but do recall them having a mark), no idea on the Beyers, if you haven't ripped the cable off, just cut the SE end off, strip it open (both the SE end and the remaining end on the cable), see what goes where on the SE conductor, and what matches up on the drivers (colors of wire, pray they weren't "nice" and used all the same color four times)

 

[ericj]

my experience with beyers is that the driver will have a mark indicating the positive lug.

But where you'd see an actual printed + mark on most drivers, on my beyers it's been a single, sometimes curved swipe of a sharpie, up to an inch from either lug, but clearly closer to one than the other.

And it's never been red.

 

[obobskivich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj /img/forum/go_quote.gif But where you'd see an actual printed + mark on most drivers, on my beyers it's been a swipe of a sharpie, up to an inch from either lug, but clearly closer to one than the other.

thats so precise of them....

 

[ericj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by obobskivich /img/forum/go_quote.gif the grounds are connected at the end of the line, and thats where you get "issues" (because things can go from one driver to the other via that line, in some theories)

And those theories are 99.999% crap.

There are return currents from the drivers, but their effect is tiny.

The way some people talk, they make it sound like the drivers are electrically mirrored to each-other and signals from one side are negating signals on the other.

It just isn't true. If you don't believe me, there are tools you can do to generate a stereo signal where one channel is 180 degrees out of phase with the other. Give it a shot. See if they attenuate each-other.

 

[ericj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by obobskivich /img/forum/go_quote.gif thats so precise of them....

Well, you know, the lugs are right next to each-other on a DT770 driver.

And there's that vast expanse of white filter paper.

With the lugs pointing toward you, the squiggle of ink will be on the paper on one side or the other.

It's precise enough.

 

[ourfpshero]

just to point out. i have rewired and reterminated several damaged and bad wiring job headphones. even with no point of reference it takes no time to figure out! you should have minimal problems

 

[apatN]

Most headphones have a red/green/gold dot close to the terminals to tell you what the positive and what the negative terminal is. The terminal with a dot close to it is the positive terminal.

 

[The Rino]

I did see the sharpie swipe on the Beyers but wasn't sure if that was from the factory or if Larry from Headphile used that as a reference for something. I then tried a continuity check with my volt meter to see if I could follow the wires down to the termination jack but no continuity registered, on any wire! So I figured there was some sort of a coating or insulation on the wire that I couldn't see that was causing this and pulled a piece of tiny wire off, still no reading. I tried the continuity check on a piece of other wire laying around and it registered. Maybe my votmeter isn't sensitive enough to measure the current in Larry's wire, don't know what kind he uses but it's probably 1mm in diameter and single core. Wierd.

 

[boomy3555]

The Denons should have two black wires going to ground(Neutral) and one red and one white wire ( four total ) ( two each ear ). The stock cable is four wire from the 3.5/6.3 plug all the way to the cans (4 wires inside the one nylon jacket). (two wires each side from the Y to the cups). This is what makes them an easy candidate for Balanced Mods.
I haven't had the cable open on the Beyers I had so I can't comment on those.

 

[ourfpshero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Rino /img/forum/go_quote.gif I did see the sharpie swipe on the Beyers but wasn't sure if that was from the factory or if Larry from Headphile used that as a reference for something. I then tried a continuity check with my volt meter to see if I could follow the wires down to the termination jack but no continuity registered, on any wire! So I figured there was some sort of a coating or insulation on the wire that I couldn't see that was causing this and pulled a piece of tiny wire off, still no reading. I tried the continuity check on a piece of other wire laying around and it registered. Maybe my votmeter isn't sensitive enough to measure the current in Larry's wire, don't know what kind he uses but it's probably 1mm in diameter and single core. Wierd.

headphone wires are almost always multiple strands of painted wire. you have to remove the paint to splice them. i burn them off, soldering will usually take off the coating also. i've seen peeps scrape with a knife also. theres a vid on youtube somewhere of this

 

[labrat]

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[obobskivich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj /img/forum/go_quote.gif And those theories are 99.999% crap. There are return currents from the drivers, but their effect is tiny. The way some people talk, they make it sound like the drivers are electrically mirrored to each-other and signals from one side are negating signals on the other. It just isn't true. If you don't believe me, there are tools you can do to generate a stereo signal where one channel is 180 degrees out of phase with the other. Give it a shot. See if they attenuate each-other.

did you not see the quotes?